BF2S Forums Wake Island - IT EXISTS!!!

The city of Dalian, China is no where near the coast.  How could it be real?

blisteringsilence wrote:

ComradeWho wrote:

I2elik wrote:

Congratulations! You have been promoted to smacktard status.

Yes. it is a real map, it's obvious, it was in BF1942, so it HAD to be real, like all the other maps that came with it, whoever said Wake Island wasn't real should be hogtied in a basement in Siberia and left there.

there's no more reason for a person living in Sydney Australia to be aware of this minimal event in United States/Japanese military history any more than there's a reason for me to know about anything that the Australians did.  It strikes of ethnocentricity to be offended by and demean somebody who's neither Japanese or a United States citizen who just learned of this. There's no reason for the battle of Wake to be taught outside of a US History or History of WW2 course - why would it be in standard Australian textbooks?

The battle of Wake Island was hardly a minimal event. Moreover, I'd like to take this time to point out that the Australians had as much vested in the island hopping stragedy of the US PacFleet as the Americans did. The original battle plan for the Japanese called for an eventual invasion of Australia, a fact the Aussies well knew. The blokes from down under were one of the largest contributers of troops to the pacific war effort.

And its called studying history for a reason. I'm an american, but somehow I have knowledge of the War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, Falklands war, the Sino-Japanese conflicts, and numerous other battles.

Its called an education kids. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. It'll help you get a better job, make more money, and ensure that I don't have to pay for welfare for your children.

Naw, he's right, it's totally insignificant... I mean, who cares about the world conflict that was brought to a resolution with the dropping of the first Atomic bomb. 

Comrade, pretty please, with sugar on top, drown yourself.

Most of these locations are actually real, and Dalian is next to the shore..

Dalian is real. It is a port city

JP3 wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

ComradeWho wrote:

there's no more reason for a person living in Sydney Australia to be aware of this minimal event in United States/Japanese military history any more than there's a reason for me to know about anything that the Australians did.  It strikes of ethnocentricity to be offended by and demean somebody who's neither Japanese or a United States citizen who just learned of this. There's no reason for the battle of Wake to be taught outside of a US History or History of WW2 course - why would it be in standard Australian textbooks?

The battle of Wake Island was hardly a minimal event. Moreover, I'd like to take this time to point out that the Australians had as much vested in the island hopping stragedy of the US PacFleet as the Americans did. The original battle plan for the Japanese called for an eventual invasion of Australia, a fact the Aussies well knew. The blokes from down under were one of the largest contributers of troops to the pacific war effort.

And its called studying history for a reason. I'm an american, but somehow I have knowledge of the War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, Falklands war, the Sino-Japanese conflicts, and numerous other battles.

Its called an education kids. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. It'll help you get a better job, make more money, and ensure that I don't have to pay for welfare for your children.

Naw, he's right, it's totally insignificant... I mean, who cares about the world conflict that was brought to a resolution with the dropping of the first Atomic bomb. 

Comrade, pretty please, with sugar on top, drown yourself.

this is a logical fallacy called a Stray Man. They don't teach Critical Thinking in our basic curriculum in this country, but it's something you can't do in an argument because it's stupid and fallacious. I know i'll have to explain this to you so here's what a straw man is:

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Because I noted (and if you have any grasp of the history for the war you would know this, and I explained above in opposition to someone's claim of Wake's importance) that Wake was an unimportant battle for people outside of this country or Japan - You warp that into a statement that "an understanding of the war is unimportant."  Your post is also fallacious because you seem to think that the best way to understand the war is through the battles that took place. Well I'll tell you what, the political decisions (things again that most Americans have little understanding of) in this war greatly outweigh one of the smallest and ultimately unimportant battles of the war - a battle again that there's no reason for Australian's to know unless they're taking a special course in it.

If you want to debate my argument that American's have a poor understanding of history, that we are disproportionately taught about the outcomes of battles rather than social conditions, and that in fact most americans who know about wake couldn't name four abolishionists, four suffragettes, four labor leaders, and four civil rights leaders - then be my guest. I don't think you can. That's why I think you committed a straw man fallacy in place of a real argument, hoping that I would get sucked into it or that your appeal to pure ignorance and emotion would somehow win you favor among the other ignorant people here. The worst part about your post is that it ignored the fact that mine demonstrated a indepth understanding of our involvement of the war, atleast compared to previous posts on the subject.

Last edited by ComradeWho (2006-03-03 21:15:00)

Faaaaaaark!!! Come and find me, lets play wake and we'll have a chat while slaughtering Americans - yes???

you little bitches and your anti-american bullshit make me sick. Especially those of you who are american. pussy fucktards.

the whole point of this is that you would -think- in a fucking war game forum that it would be common knowledge that all the maps in this war game are based around real places...that was part of the appeal of it for me. but all you bitch made america haters want to make it about americans thinking there parts in WW2 are the most important (never mind that they WERE the most important you fucks) when that isnt even what its about.

blisteringsilence wrote:

ComradeWho wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

The battle of Wake Island was hardly a minimal event. Moreover, I'd like to take this time to point out that the Australians had as much vested in the island hopping stragedy of the US PacFleet as the Americans did. The original battle plan for the Japanese called for an eventual invasion of Australia, a fact the Aussies well knew. The blokes from down under were one of the largest contributers of troops to the pacific war effort.

And its called studying history for a reason. I'm an american, but somehow I have knowledge of the War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, Falklands war, the Sino-Japanese conflicts, and numerous other battles.

Its called an education kids. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. It'll help you get a better job, make more money, and ensure that I don't have to pay for welfare for your children.

it was fucking minimal, it was an outpost manned by unqualified marines and officers using antiquated weapons. it served little strategic purpose. you're getting it confused with midway. it's only significance is it was the first land battle that the united states was involved in in the pacific. - underlining how unimportant it really would be to any other country since why would they note the first land battle we were involved in? are you so stupid as to think that that's common knowledge outside of the US? can you name the first land battle turkey was involved in?  Yeah, the australians had a lot vested in island hopping - good job pointing that out! but it still has nothing to do with the battle of wake island in which the japanese overran a patch of dirt that was about a mile square with a couple of planes. at this point in the war MacArthur and Nimitz hadn't even opened up the island hopping debate since we were on the defensive. just because it's an island doesn't mean it has anything to do with island hopping or the surival of australia. jesus you fool - if you're going to be a snob about history atleast have a decent grasp of it. by the way - in the US we're overly taught about battles and politicans and things of that nature. Maybe you study history in depth (but i doubt from your post) but for every person that knows about the battle of wake in this country there are 10 or 20 or 100 that couldn't name four abolishonist leaders, four suffragette leaders, four labor leaders, or four civil rights leaders (you know that kind of shit is pretty important to). this kind of stupid debate just underscores how arrogant and truly stupid most americans are. again, there's no reason for an australian to know about this battle, and very little for an american who's not taking a WW2 history class to know about it either. doubtful that you have a holistic knowledge of the war and highly likely that all of your knowledge is concentrated on the US involvement.

Interesting how you can tell so much about my education, or lack therof, from a single post on a video game forum...

I'll accept your postulation that Wake's only significance was that it was indeed the first land battle the US was involved in. However, this doesn't make it any less important. For hundreds of years, countries have used the propaganda surrounding an intial defeat to rally their citizens to battle (lets go with the alamo, the Maine, and say, the Yalu river). As an aside, Turkey did not pick sides with regards to World War 2 until very late in the conflict, long after the landings at Normandy. Now, if you are asking what the first defeat the country we now know as Turkey suffered, the answer is never. The country we know as Turkey didn't come into being until after the First World War, and therefore has never suffered a militart defeat at the hands of its enemies. Historically, every empire that possesed land on the Black Sea has desired possession of the Bosphorus, so battles have been going on there for millenia. The battle for Troy most likely occurred on what is now Turkish soil.

Now, onto your point that Americans are stupid. Dude, get a grip. There are stupid people everywhere. They keep me in business. The point of my entire post is that, if you come away with nothing else, you should study your history. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it (paraphrased from George Santayana).

Dude I've got six words for you: Your post about wake was wrong.
You can try to rebound from that all you want, you can focus on the most miniscule part of my post and turn it into a lengthy essay while ignoring the entire point of my post, but at the end of the day you challenged my claim and your challenge failed. there's still no reason for some kid in australia to know or even care about wake island.

sinir wrote:

stryyker wrote:

if we lost wake island, we WOULD have lost the war in the Pacific, that affects the WHOLE world

We did lose the island for the duration of the war...  Dec 23rd 41 until mid 1945 it was in Japanese hands.

he, like the other fellow, was getting Wake confused with midway and in an attempt to demean someone for their lack of US history ended up demonstrating his own misunderstanding.

ComradeWho wrote:

Terrible_chester wrote:

you little bitches and your anti-american bullshit make me sick. Especially those of you who are american. pussy fucktards.

the whole point of this is that you would -think- in a fucking war game forum that it would be common knowledge that all the maps in this war game are based around real places...that was part of the appeal of it for me. but all you bitch made america haters want to make it about americans thinking there parts in WW2 are the most important (never mind that they WERE the most important you fucks) when that isnt even what its about.

wow this argument is fallacious just because it takes place in the abstraction of this guy's mind. this guy is waging some imaginery battle in his head between "america haters" and "america lovers." His emotional reaction to an argument that is probably well over his head. His reaction is to project all of his frustration about the world unto the people he thinks he disagrees with (he doesn't understand the arguments so he can't really disagree), and then instead of countering their arguments with reason - he generalizes them as a "type" of person and then insults the classification that he created. This often substitutes for real dialogue and has the effect of riling up many other people who also can't make good arguments. The power of this is that since it's unreasonable, it can't be destroyed with reason and is therefor invincible. So the idiot can feel like the idiot has won a debate no matter what.  At no point does this person's post attempt to deny anything said about Americans - that's an important to note folks!

This is an Ad Hominem
1# Person A makes claim X.
2# Person B makes an attack on person A.
3# Therefore A's claim is false.

right back at you then, wouldnt you agree?

I speek only for my own post of "he has to be kidding right" because that IS the context in which I was viewing the original thread. I stand by what I said. My amazment that he didnt know wake was a real place was not rooted in a belief that he should make it his buisness to know american history (as you would have everyone believe) but rather it was rooted in my opinion that one would think that in a BF2 forum it would be common knowledge that the maps were real. It was YOU who decided that everyone who was asking him if he was serious was acting like an ugly american. not me.  I then reacted to that, by saying you were wrong in this assesment (granted I did so in a less than articulate way). I also stand by that.

so basically I wipe my ass with what you think. It IS stupid for someone who plays this game not to know that the maps are real. You can put whatever spin on it you need to to make you feel better. Also it IS stupid for someone to talk shit about a country and NOt expect to get a negative reaction. I am done with you on this topic now, so feel free to continue your misguided anti-american shit talk all the while living in southern california enjoying all the freedoms this country you talk so much shit about gives you.



and oh yeah hahahahaha!!  you were owned earlier your just too full of yourself to know it yet hahahahaha!!

Last edited by Terrible_chester (2006-03-03 21:41:58)

Terrible_chester wrote:

ComradeWho wrote:

Terrible_chester wrote:

you little bitches and your anti-american bullshit make me sick. Especially those of you who are american. pussy fucktards.

the whole point of this is that you would -think- in a fucking war game forum that it would be common knowledge that all the maps in this war game are based around real places...that was part of the appeal of it for me. but all you bitch made america haters want to make it about americans thinking there parts in WW2 are the most important (never mind that they WERE the most important you fucks) when that isnt even what its about.

wow this argument is fallacious just because it takes place in the abstraction of this guy's mind. this guy is waging some imaginery battle in his head between "america haters" and "america lovers." His emotional reaction to an argument that is probably well over his head. His reaction is to project all of his frustration about the world unto the people he thinks he disagrees with (he doesn't understand the arguments so he can't really disagree), and then instead of countering their arguments with reason - he generalizes them as a "type" of person and then insults the classification that he created. This often substitutes for real dialogue and has the effect of riling up many other people who also can't make good arguments. The power of this is that since it's unreasonable, it can't be destroyed with reason and is therefor invincible. So the idiot can feel like the idiot has won a debate no matter what.  At no point does this person's post attempt to deny anything said about Americans - that's an important to note folks!

This is an Ad Hominem
1# Person A makes claim X.
2# Person B makes an attack on person A.
3# Therefore A's claim is false.

right back at you then, wouldnt you agree?

I speek only for my own post of "he has to be kidding right" because that IS the context in which I was viewing the original thread. I stand by what I said. My amazment that he didnt know wake was a real place was not rooted in a belief that he should make it his buisness to know american history (as you would have everyone believe) but rather it was rooted in my opinion that one would think that in a BF2 forum it would be common knowledge that the maps were real. It was YOU who decided that everyone who was asking him if he was serious was acting like an ugly american. not me.  I then reacted to that, by saying you were wrong in this assesment (granted I did so in a less than articulate way). I also stand by that.

so basically I wipe my ass with what you think. It IS stupid for someone who plays this game not to know that the maps are real. You can put whatever spin on it you need to to make you feel better. Also it IS stupid for someone to talk shit about a country and NOt expect to get a negative reaction. I am done with you on this topic now, so feel free to continue your misguided anti-american shit talk all the while living in southern california enjoying all the freedoms this country you talk so much shit about gives you.

oh shut the hell up chester just give up already. you're the one who thought I got owned by the guy who was posting misleading things about the battle of wake - not even realizing how wrong that person was. you're the guy who made a post about "america haters" as a substitute for a post with rational merit - and I'm the guy who's been replying to everyone's post about how stupid this australian kid is because he doesn't know about 1) an insignificant atoll 2) an insignificant battle 3) the history and development of the BF series.

I also made sure to smack people for putting him down about not knowing about bf1942 so please save it. You can pretend that I'm "spinning" but the posts above speak for themselves and my direct replies to direct statements have gotten only 1) poor arguments 2) character attacks and 3) repeated attempts to deflect my posts with shitty spins. This is the first time in this series however somebody has attempted to spin my the debate by claiming I'm spinning it though. the only thing you and that other fellow are trying to do is save face since your original claims were made null. keep trying.

wow there are some big words being thrown around here