cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6917|NJ
We should not be in Iraq, I could care less how much better it's making these peoples lives. Every day we're over there is more of my money being spent in a country that I could give a shit less about.  More money that my children and their children will be paying for, and for all the soldiers that are going to flame me for this I'm thinking about your future. You might be getting paid to do your job now but I'm pretty sure your not going to be in the army forever, and ever day your there get's you closer to a job in McD's or wallmart for 6 dollars an hour. It's time to bring you home to your family and rebuilding our once great econimy, Not continue sinking money into a war that nobody should really care if we win.

The contrast between Bill Clinton and Bush with the lying is two totally seperate things, Clinton got a BJ who cares it doesn't effect our country at all. The rest of the world got a good laugh at us that we cared so much about it so much. Bush lies about everything in our country from being prepared to the job market, now one here but the middle class gets effected by this(that's y it's slowly dissapearing). Now they missplaced 160 millions(I think going off of memory here) with there cards giving them out to dead people all over the place.  Now I'm not a rocket scientist or anything but I could tell you right off the bat, the poor people that were effected by this are pron to stealing. Now not only are the american people out the money paying for Browns salery we're out alot more.

WE GAVE POOR PEOPLE 2000 dollar cards that could be spent anywhere? and then said whoops they spent it and gambled it away. They should have been food stamp cards don't give a person I already know is a fool money to remove all doubt.

Now Bush did lie it's proven and documented numerious times, why are the "Republicans" fighting this. It's not a flaming him for doing a bad job with Katrina, which everyone said wasn't his fault. It's a he lied here's proof, Clinton got impeached for lieing about a blowjob and our country was doing great when he was in office. There where higher paying jobs and alot more of them.

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2006-03-03 11:36:42)

wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6999

Marconius wrote:

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

How can the federal government make a decision to trump the state?  Especially when the state isn't giving facts to FEMA...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060303/ap_ … rina_video

Blanco lies to Bush.
Blanco didn't lie to Bush, and it doesn't change a damned thing.  She said that the "last report at the time" she got said that the levees weren't confirmed as being breached.  Sure enough, the levees breached an hour later.  This is just political back-bending to try to shift the glaring blame around.  (Man, I KNEW someone was going to post that without fully looking into it...)

Everyone is still overlooking the actual topic!  The fact still remains that Bush said he'd help, and just a few days later said that he was never briefed.  It's right there in the first video, and it's all there in the press briefings he held days after Katrina hit!
You're like a top... massive spin.

"the National Weather Service received a report of a levee breach and issued a flash-flood warning as early as 9:12 a.m. that day"

"Not until the day after Katrina roared ashore did the White House confirm that its surge had, in fact, breached the levees"

The reason:
"We keep getting reports in some places that maybe water is coming over the levees," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said shortly after noon on Aug. 29.  ...  Blanco said, "I think we have not breached the levee at this time."

Incompetent governor kept the feds out.  National Weather Service uses satellites to confirm a levee breach but Blanco goes on a 'gut' feeling that they were still intact.  But according to you, this is Bush's fault.  Good logic.   Seek a refund from your public school...
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6999

Marconius wrote:

We liberals want change and tolerance, a more focused/stronger government that's also transparent, and a sharper eye to make sure Civil Liberties aren't infringed in the country.
You tolerate a white Christian male first and i'll back you 100% on tolerance.  You intolerance of us infringes my civil liberties.  You might need your eyes checked.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
It's not a matter of fault.  As capt.Fass said two posts above, he lied.  Plain and simple.  They are trying to cover up that fact by posting all the reports about the top-level confusion.

And I DO tolerate white christian males.  Show me a white christian male that doesn't support religious infringement on public property and wants to keep Church and State forever separate, plus has no 'holier than thou' attitude and we'll have a deal.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6999

Marconius wrote:

It's not a matter of fault.  As capt.Fass said two posts above, he lied.  Plain and simple.  They are trying to cover up that fact by posting all the reports about the top-level confusion.

And I DO tolerate white christian males.  Show me a white christian male that doesn't support religious infringement on public property and wants to keep Church and State forever separate, plus has no 'holier than thou' attitude and we'll have a deal.
Again, subjective.  If I tell you I will wear my favorite white shirt tomorrow only to go home and find it dirty and have to wear my favorite blue shirt did I lie to you?

So, for you to tolerate a white Christian male they must adhere to certain rules for that to happen?  And you call that tolerance? Why then can't I say, "I'll tolerate homos if they never have a parade, never show their affection in public, and never tell anybody they're gay?  When this is done I tolerate them."  Tolerance has no conditions... you either tolerate them or you don't.

Marconius, wake up!  You've been lied to and it wasn't Bush.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6999

cpt.fass1 wrote:

We should not be in Iraq, I could care less how much better it's making these peoples lives. Every day we're over there is more of my money being spent in a country that I could give a shit less about.  More money that my children and their children will be paying for, and for all the soldiers that are going to flame me for this I'm thinking about your future. You might be getting paid to do your job now but I'm pretty sure your not going to be in the army forever, and ever day your there get's you closer to a job in McD's or wallmart for 6 dollars an hour. It's time to bring you home to your family and rebuilding our once great econimy, Not continue sinking money into a war that nobody should really care if we win.

The contrast between Bill Clinton and Bush with the lying is two totally seperate things, Clinton got a BJ who cares it doesn't effect our country at all. The rest of the world got a good laugh at us that we cared so much about it so much. Bush lies about everything in our country from being prepared to the job market, now one here but the middle class gets effected by this(that's y it's slowly dissapearing). Now they missplaced 160 millions(I think going off of memory here) with there cards giving them out to dead people all over the place.  Now I'm not a rocket scientist or anything but I could tell you right off the bat, the poor people that were effected by this are pron to stealing. Now not only are the american people out the money paying for Browns salery we're out alot more.

WE GAVE POOR PEOPLE 2000 dollar cards that could be spent anywhere? and then said whoops they spent it and gambled it away. They should have been food stamp cards don't give a person I already know is a fool money to remove all doubt.

Now Bush did lie it's proven and documented numerious times, why are the "Republicans" fighting this. It's not a flaming him for doing a bad job with Katrina, which everyone said wasn't his fault. It's a he lied here's proof, Clinton got impeached for lieing about a blowjob and our country was doing great when he was in office. There where higher paying jobs and alot more of them.
First, the DOW is at 11,086.60.  That's the level it was at when Clinton was in office and Bush doesn't have a dot com bubble to ride.
Second, unemployment is at 4.7%.  See above.  It doesn't get much better than that. 


It has been proven more than none that when the government is spending money the economy thrives.  Read an economics book instead of the DNC.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6917|NJ
Wannabe about the shirt, yes you did lie to me. Now say if we where playing Basketball and we where going to be the white shirts we'd be shit out of luck.

and I tolerate everyone, white christians and homo's. I don't give a flying f what anyone does as long as it doesn't effect me. The reason why the christians are on the chopping block is because of intellagent design, now it's your belif(spl) but some christians are forcing it into our schools and making our children dumber. This is a problem for it stops progress, now I'm not sure where we come from and I don't really care. But if making improvements in science comes from Evolution then evolution is more of a useful tool then Intellegent design.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
NOT subjective.  Watch the video, watch the press conference, check the stories before and after Katrina hit.  Repeat as necessary.  He was briefed.  Then he said he WASN'T briefed.  Should I make it simpler for you?
You just won't let go...

I'm not even going to get into a religious tolerance debate with you as it will be absolutely worthless.  Christian intolerance infriges our civil liberties as well, and I declare that we will always be at an impasse.
Psycho
Member since 2005
+44|6998|Kansas, USA
I guess the fact that the Governor of Louisiana reported that the levees were in tact well after they had broken and Jeff Smith, Louisiana's emergency preparedness deputy director, stated "the coordination and support we are getting from FEMA has just been outstanding" must just be lies as well. Link

I'm not saying Bush is great, but this was a failure at many levels. The biggest failures however were at the local and state level. All those school busses left to be damaged in the flooding instead of used to evacuate people, no workable evacuation plan, etc.


Hell, we've been paying for many of these people to live rent-free on cruise ships with additional monetary assistance as well for how many months now? And they still want a free ride!
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6917|NJ
Wow the DOW just rose above 11 this month and has been up then down, then up then down. Unemplyment is only at 4.7% because they changed the way they caculated it. They up'd the age of adult from 22 to 25 and if you haven't held a job after collage you don't get calculated into that factor.

The only thing that is keeping us from a massive depression is the chinese buying up our money on the exchange so they can keep there dollar cheap.  If for any reason the chinese wants to dump our currency out into the world market we the United States are going to end up just like Russia.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6917|NJ
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI& … q=l&c=

It's about as stable as the NO levee's
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6917|NJ
Yes Psycho those are lies as well, there are many lvls that our governments fail us on a day to day basis. One of which is the cover ups and lies, the police failed us on that one, the State and city politicans failed us. Everyone failed and lied to us, but the biggest issue about this is the president has lied to us time and time again. Stated he had a plan for Iraq that was going to cost 1.7 billion now is up to 250 billion. 

Now Katrina happening was a f up on all lvls of government and people have admitted there faults as far as I know on the state and city side.  But Bush said he had no Idea, our lvl of government goes from city to state, to federal and our federal government should have had a plan for it just in case. When south jersey flooded about 5 years ago a day after there where armed forces trucks on the road with bottle water. 9/11 the next day there was blanket trucks, water, and pretty much everything you can think of going to the city.

And the biggest thing we found out about this, if President Bush hired you you have no idea what your doing.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6901

sabotwulf wrote:

This topic is very subjective.  lets look at it this way.  Bush was informed that Katrina was going to be a very big storm.  This statement was a "prediction" seeing as how as of this time in this day in age we really can't 100% accurately gauge the weather.  If you were in his shoes and were told "one day in advance" that there is a very big storm coming and that your agency leaders with whom you must put trust into to run thier angencies told you that they were prepared what would YOU do?  The gov. was prepared for the types of storms that we have always had.  Katrina blew in and top the charts and then some.  Like I said, we can only "predict" a level of a storm, Kartina came and put a smack down on N.O..  Another unforscene aspect were the levies breaking and flooding the districts.  It was said that it "might" happen and seeing as how they have stood up to the type of storm that Katrina was "predicted" to be and not what it became they concentrated on other issues more. Now, I will say that they Gov. and the state were caught with thier panties down and Katrina gave them and all the unfortunate residents a good rimming.  I will be honost here, I do think that Bush has been screwing up a lot lately but I will defend him on this topic and ttry to put yourself in his shoes and look at the BIG picture and you can see that he did not lie but that everyone was "unprepaired".
First off we CAN predict the weather almost 100% correct . We knew about this storm 40 years ago bro ........40 years ago . We knew it was going to be a cat 5 storm . I put the blame on the governor .
First off he didn't mobilise the National Guard . That's HIS job , not president's . Second he should have built up the levees . There are not high enough , nor far out enough . The whole thing was just not good enough .
Third why did the governor spend $600 million on a football stadium instead of redesigning the levees ?
Last even IF Bush had eveything in place ready for the storm things would have been fucked anyhow . People didn't want to leave or didn't have the means . Come on folks , this is Mother Nature here . We she speaks we sit down and STFU till shes done .
Polarcap
Member
+0|6895

Marconius wrote:

Ok...the DAY BEFORE, he told the FEMA people that he would help out in any way possible.  Five days later, he claims to have had no briefing nor knowledge about the extent of the damage caused by Katrina!  THAT'S the topic.

Bush KNEW about it all, and SAID he'd do something about it, and then denied he knew anything about it a few days later.  What's not being understood here?
First.... The DAY BEFORE.... Newsflash... Damage doesnt occur until AFTER the hurricane hits... not the day before.. So on that point how could he "have knowledge about the extent of the damage" the DAY BEFORE... what.. u think the office of the pres gets a crystal ball or something...
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7058

Tak_Bonehead wrote:

3 points I'd like to bring up.
1.  The press is LIBERAL?????  Give me a break.  The mainstream press is owned, printed, and distributed by a conservative, stictly business-oriented, and (like the current administration) only tells people what they and their advertisers think people want to hear.  It's always the old saw: because I don't like what the press is telling me, it must be liberal.  The few times it does support the republicans, it's "they're telling me the truth". . .  Fox is just the more extreme of the mainstream conservative, me-first, fuck anyone who acts/talks/thinks differently from me CONSERVATIVE press.
2.  Bush is a tool.  Impeaching him will do no good.  Is nobody able to perceive that the guy has NO FUCKING CLUE as to what is going on?  His only strength is that he can be easily led by people (like Cheney) who know what power is, and how to use it.
3.  Clinton.  Monica.  WHO REALLY GIVES A DAMN that he got a blowjob?  Jesus, anyone in the corporate world is getting this regularly.  The guy had a chick go down on him, and somehow that is some huge moral dilemma, we should impeach the lying bastard and all that shit.  The only person who should/could be really worried about that is Hillary.  NOT US.  Personally, I'm much more worried about an idiot in the white house, elected with like 20% of the populations direct assent, running around, attacking everyone in sight, abrogating all international commitments, and making his goddam friends rich.  The cynical homeland shit just brings it home for me.
Well that's my rant for now.  I'm ready for the personal attacks, unfounded by any logic, that are sure to follow.
Nobody cared that he couldn't get his dick sucked without giving the chick a six figure salary provided by Taxpayers, or that he did it on Taxpayer time in a Public Office. Hey how else was he gonna get any?
It was that he manipulated witnesses in a slander trail by his former GF Puala Jones. The ugly fat chick was later to become a witness, Then it also led to perjury. I know its hard to follow more than 3 steps but keep trying.  All this When our Country was hit 8 times by Terrorsist with out a response by him The 1st being the
1993 World Trade Center Attacks. All this guy could do well is jerk off. He didn't know enuff to inhale . Right ?
Wait He said he would never sqwirt! I geuss he didnt have "the jerking off thing" down either.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6917|NJ
Hehe one 6 figure salary provided by the taxpayers beats the hell out of about 10 of Bushs unqualified lackey's with 6 figure salaries. Hey I'm the president I got a great Idea, Let's nominate a woman who's never been a judge to be on the grand jury.
ComradeWho
Member
+50|6916|Southern California
my Aristotle side says "it's good that human beings, regardless of their understanding of an issue, are engaged in debate, since reason is what makes a one a member of our species. and that excersize of reason leads to the flourishing of human kind"

but my Plato side says "people without a scientific grasp on politics and psychology should not be committing an injustice and meddling in things above their heads, indeed they should probably killed or have their liberties revoked."

I always more of a Platonist...
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6923|New York
What i dont understand is why they took the Govt money and did NOTHING to fix the leves. They went and spent it on frigging burbon Street and Torrist attractions. So you figure it out.

Harry
ComradeWho
Member
+50|6916|Southern California
my impression of half the posts here

"i dont see why it's the federal government's job to protect a city from a hurricane that is going to devestate it when the federal government is responsible for protection on a massive scale, since this one my my city got hit by a storm and our city council handled it fine with their resources"

"i have no sympathy for all the people who are affected cus i know this one guy who was affected and he just moved away no problem, why doesn't everybody else spend their hundreds of thousands of dollars in their bank accounts to relocate and get on with their lives? this victim mentality is destroying the country, and it's the liberal's fault!"

"bush is a good leader and he's better than clinton that guy didn't care about anything but when bush knew there was a problem he went down there and made sure to give a talk about tom delay's broken home (totally destroyed, you know), no, there's no way that the repeated offensively ignorant statements that demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the crisis in any way demonstrate poor leadership on the part of the republicans who made those statements. this so called "evidence" of advancing warning is nothing but a pathetic attempt to distract us from the basic fact that liberals are bad."

"i don't care that there is now evidence that bush blew off warnings about the storm and clearly scape-goated one of his chronies at a time when his approval ratings were at the lowest, because that's just the work of the liberal media! they may claim that bush cut money from the levy system that protects louisianna.. but that doesn't matter because the state could have just pulled money from other areas in it's budget and made up for the loss - it's totally the state's fault"

"so what there was advanced warnings from other sources about the severity of the hurricane, people need to learn how to work for themselves and solve their problems. this one time my dad got his kite stuck up in a tree and he just got it, it's that attitude that makes america great and the democrats in charge at louisianna certainly "lost the kide" on this one"

"bush is good because this one time way back when, this one democrat did this one bad thing... so bush's attrocity today doesn't matter. dumb bush bashers"
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco

Polarcap wrote:

Marconius wrote:

Ok...the DAY BEFORE, he told the FEMA people that he would help out in any way possible.  Five days later, he claims to have had no briefing nor knowledge about the extent of the damage caused by Katrina!  THAT'S the topic.

Bush KNEW about it all, and SAID he'd do something about it, and then denied he knew anything about it a few days later.  What's not being understood here?
First.... The DAY BEFORE.... Newsflash... Damage doesnt occur until AFTER the hurricane hits... not the day before.. So on that point how could he "have knowledge about the extent of the damage" the DAY BEFORE... what.. u think the office of the pres gets a crystal ball or something...
`
Oh for the love of Zeus...
That's what my first post was about!  Did you not watch the video nor read the stories?
Let me break it down AGAIN.

FEMA tells Bush about what's going to happen with Katrina.  Death, destruction, they charted out the path Katrina was going to take, and went over the levee situation several times.  They know how to predict this, it's their job, and if you watch the video, you know they can predict well!  At the end, Bush tells FEMA that he will help in any way that he can once the storm passes.

Katrina lands and the shit hits the fan.  There is a massive blunder in aid and rescue coordination on the county, state, and federal level of command.  Extended loss of life, plus the refugees are not well taken care of.  But we know all of this.

Bush holds a press conference.  When asked about the aid blunder, Bush says that he had no knowledge of the foreseen extent of the damage, and his whole cabinet proceeds to basically flame Michael Brown.  This is a direct lie and an attempt to cover up any blame leading to the White House.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7058

Marconius wrote:

It's not bad to be a liberal in the US...it's just that there are a little more outspoken anti-Left conservative right-wingers on these forums than most.

We liberals want change and tolerance, a more focused/stronger government that's also transparent, and a sharper eye to make sure Civil Liberties aren't infringed in the country. 

Conservatives don't want change and are totally fine with America's old values and for the most part tend to be very intolerant of the rest of the world.  They are for a smaller and more privatized government, leading towards more corporate control of American values.  You can read through any of the anti-muslim threads (Read: almost all of them ) to see what I mean.
We liberals want change and tolerance, Is that why you pull my posts ?  lol
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
Horseman, try contributing something useful for a change.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6999

Marconius wrote:

NOT subjective.  Watch the video, watch the press conference, check the stories before and after Katrina hit.  Repeat as necessary.  He was briefed.  Then he said he WASN'T briefed.  Should I make it simpler for you?
You just won't let go...

I'm not even going to get into a religious tolerance debate with you as it will be absolutely worthless.  Christian intolerance infriges our civil liberties as well, and I declare that we will always be at an impasse.
I think you need to know the meaning of the word before you can claim it as how you view others.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tolerance

Your intolerance is despicable.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6915|San Francisco
Well, at least I don't put forth my own intolerances on the rest of the general public, like christians are constantly and truthfully accused of.  When will you start tolerating the rest of the American public?
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7058
Can we all agree that it was a big hurricane and that

New Orleans being below sea level When Flooded would stay flooded.

Most Hurricane floods abate when The Storm surge passes. A day or so.
This was a 1 and 2 knock out punch. The flood made the typical influx of aid that comes later, much harder to provide because the Entire infrastructure was gone.
The Helicopters who should have been helping a few hundred old, infirm or deranged hold outs of roofs and providing aid were instead trying to rescue 60000 people who didn't ,wouldn't ( and yes some couldn't ) evacuate (I myself must admit I was to stupid to leave also But the people in the Keys assured me it would pass north of Key West and in my defense They didn't ask me to evacuate.  Had they, I would have. It was an Experience )

Authorities/Rescuers  were also busy chasing looters, Snipers and looting a bit them selves, In my experience its the Governor who runs the show and take the reins at a hurricane. In hurricane Andrew we Say Jeb Bush and no one else.

Anyone from there Area has been expecting a Major levee failure for 20 years now. The bigger concern was that it would let go at or north of the Afafallachia [sp] gates.

So you admit to a little dabbling in " the Black Arts of The  Patriot Act "  So how do " you decide What's relevant " If you agree with it ?

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