LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA
For those who are new to this topic, I've been posting info about creating a new BF2 map that I hope Dice/EA will approve for ranked play. After proposing several concepts and having community members offer their vote and suggestions it was determined that the city of Spokane, WA was the most popular map concept out of the choices  provided. You guys can find the original threads here:

Vote Thread:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=8907

Update:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=16014

Anyway, I decided to make some minor revisions to the concept and I would like some feedback. Do you guys prefer the layout and flag placement of revision 1, 2, or 3 more?

Revision 1                       Revision 2                       Revision 3

https://img480.imageshack.us/img480/9296/spokane64revised26ms.th.jpghttps://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4726/spokane64revised34jo.th.jpghttps://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7442/spokane64revised40ko.th.jpg

_________________________________________________________

Notice:

I've had a few players ask why Spokane? Why not create a large recognizeable city instead?

There are a few reasons. It's definitely not the most glamorous, well-known, or significant city by any means. I've actually only been there once, which was last summer. I instantly started thinking about the locations I could snipe, hide, or launch an attack from during an urban battle.

1) The downtown region of Spokane is small enough to allow for heated infantry fights.
2) The geography is somewhat unique because the city actually has a river running through it with a series of waterfalls and a central park located on an island with several connecting bridges.
3) There are structures such as a sports arena, an IMAX theatre, a trendy three-story mall, a 20 screen cinema, a Convention Center/Opera House, hotels, restuarants, a clock tower (nice for sniping), a viewing platform, sky bridges, and office buildings all in a small area. There are currently no maps that feature these types of modern city elements.
4) It's a location I can physically visit so that I can get accurate and detailed reference material. (It's only about 6 hours from where I live)

Why not make a well-known big city like New York, LA, Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.?

1) These cities are too big to be playable with the current limit of 64 players.
2) The number of static meshes required to populate a large city and still maintain a decent level of detail would bring most PC's to a crawl.
3) Even if the map was reduced to a small section of a large city the out-of-bounds area would still have to be created to account for all of the buildings and surrounding geographic elements. Otherwise, it wouldn't be convincing as a real city if there was no ongoing city skyline beyond the playable area.

I've said this before, but I think most people past over it.

Can't wait to get some feedback.

Last edited by LG-MindBullets (2006-03-03 15:27:26)

Unclean009
Da Dirty Man!
+66|6649|Spokane, Washington

Personally I like revision 2 because it seems more.....i dont know.....open to multiple attacks. I would suggest you leave the corner store as a capable flag and not with the chinese.

Last edited by Unclean009 (2006-03-01 16:40:00)

BigDaddy83
Member
+1|6711

Unclean009 wrote:

Personally I like revision 2 because it seems more.....i dont know.....open to multiple attacks. I would suggest you leave the corner store as a capable flag and not with the chinese.
I agree with this.  It seems to me that Revision 2 with the corner store neutral gives the Chinese a good area to start with, and forces the Americans to stretch themselves to build up a bit.  I like this because it will balance things out, in my opinion.  It wont give either team a definitive advantage, at least that I can tell.
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

BigDaddy83 wrote:

Unclean009 wrote:

Personally I like revision 2 because it seems more.....i dont know.....open to multiple attacks. I would suggest you leave the corner store as a capable flag and not with the chinese.
I agree with this.  It seems to me that Revision 2 with the corner store neutral gives the Chinese a good area to start with, and forces the Americans to stretch themselves to build up a bit.  I like this because it will balance things out, in my opinion.  It wont give either team a definitive advantage, at least that I can tell.
This seems to be the consensus so far. I was talking to some friends at work today about it and most of them agreed that the second version seemed more balanced. I also like the fact that it opens the downtown region to more of the office buildings. I don't know how many I can make accessible, but I'd like to make as many buildings as possible actually have interiors for infantry to take advantage of.
iNfeQtioN
Member
+0|6657
When do u start..??
l41e
Member
+677|6645

Revision 2 seems nice.

BTW nice work.
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|6727|Rochester, NY
Pretty good, but it might infuriate Spokane players... I know one...
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

iNfeQtioN wrote:

When do u start..??
Right now I'm just waiting to get free-time again. I'm working full-time already and I'm aslo doing some contract work on the side for a PS3 game so I probably won't start on the level until I'm done with it. I'm actually working on a game at my day job as well. Two games at once is enough to work on. Trying to work on 3 different games at the same time is asking for trouble.

I'll let you guys know though when I plan on starting. Then maybe I could call upon the help of the Spokane-area residents that visit these forums for info and reference.
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

BlackLegion42 wrote:

Pretty good, but it might infuriate Spokane players... I know one...
Why would this infuriate Spokane resident players? I don't understand.
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|6727|Rochester, NY
well they don't want to see fighting in their city??? anyway... it is a good map to be played in.
[Ahazi] Kaika
The Suicidal Soldier
+3|6758
I like revision 2 as well, since number 1 favors the USMC with the placement of the neutral flags
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

BlackLegion42 wrote:

well they don't want to see fighting in their city??? anyway... it is a good map to be played in.
Oh...

I didn't think that'd be too big of an issue.

Personally, it wouldn't bother or offend me if someone made a map of where I live and people fought in it virtually. I don't think it'd be any different than if I saw a movie that depicted Portland, Oregon (I live near there) being torn apart by bombers, nukes, or a meteor. To me it's just fiction. If anything, I think it would be cool to see an area that you are familiar with popularized in a game, television, or a movie. It's just a set for a fictitious battle. I know there will probably be some people who find the idea disturbing, but I think they are the minority and most players will realize that there's nothing personal about me deciding to choose Spokane as a battleground.

I hope this isn't the reason why EA didn't include any North American based maps in BF2. Maybe EA's PR was afraid of post 9-11 reprisal if they created a battle map based on a US city. IMHO, I think it'd be immature and ungrounded to restrict creative expression in this way simply because a very small minority of people think that displaying any act of war in the US, even if it's fiction, would offend and upset people. This is isn't a personal jab at you. In fact, I can't even claim to know your oppinion on the matter, I'm just explaining why I don't think creating a US based map should be an issue.
the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|6741
Wow...unlike several of EA's urban maps...this one looks fun.

I'm no expert on the art of flag placement but to me it looks like revision 1 is the 16/32 size version of the map while the second revision is the 32/64 version (forgive me if that was stated by someone else already.)

The only thing I would change is to give the chinese team an uncapable flag (maps where only one side gets an uncap tend to become unbalanced....but then again those maps were all designed by EA)

Last edited by the_ubernoob_ (2006-03-02 14:46:25)

vesty12
Member
+0|6661|Copenhagen
Revision 1 seems like the best choice. Also Lg your doing seriously nice work here. As well as providing us a free map (if ea/dice pass it) it will also be a great boost to the BF2 community as it proves that ea/dice listen to the fans.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6662|NT, like Mick Dundee

Revision 2 is the best... I think the chinese should still have a contestable CP on the little island park thing though. Other than that, great idea... Hope DICE gives it the ok for ranked servers.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|6727|Rochester, NY

LG-MindBullets wrote:

BlackLegion42 wrote:

well they don't want to see fighting in their city??? anyway... it is a good map to be played in.
Oh...

I didn't think that'd be too big of an issue.

Personally, it wouldn't bother or offend me if someone made a map of where I live and people fought in it virtually. I don't think it'd be any different than if I saw a movie that depicted Portland, Oregon (I live near there) being torn apart by bombers, nukes, or a meteor. To me it's just fiction. If anything, I think it would be cool to see an area that you are familiar with popularized in a game, television, or a movie. It's just a set for a fictitious battle. I know there will probably be some people who find the idea disturbing, but I think they are the minority and most players will realize that there's nothing personal about me deciding to choose Spokane as a battleground.

I hope this isn't the reason why EA didn't include any North American based maps in BF2. Maybe EA's PR was afraid of post 9-11 reprisal if they created a battle map based on a US city. IMHO, I think it'd be immature and ungrounded to restrict creative expression in this way simply because a very small minority of people think that displaying any act of war in the US, even if it's fiction, would offend and upset people. This is isn't a personal jab at you. In fact, I can't even claim to know your oppinion on the matter, I'm just explaining why I don't think creating a US based map should be an issue.
Just wondering, anyway Revision 2 looks awesome!!! I really want to play it! Keep it up!
a fly
Member
+105|6641|The netherlands
the 2nd one! it looks bigger, please add attack choppers

Last edited by a fly (2006-03-02 15:13:57)

LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

Wow...unlike several of EA's urban maps...this one looks fun.

I'm no expert on the art of flag placement but to me it looks like revision 1 is the 16/32 size version of the map while the second revision is the 32/64 version (forgive me if that was stated by someone else already.)

The only thing I would change is to give the chinese team an uncapable flag (maps where only one side gets an uncap tend to become unbalanced....but then again those maps were all designed by EA)
Actually, they're both the 64 player versions, just different versions of flag/boundary layout.

I also don't like most maps that give only one team an uncappable base, allowing the other team the possibility to get capped out. However, I think giving the PLA an uncappable base in this level would contradict the premise of the level, which indicates that it's the USMC's objective to remove the PLA from the city before they can launch an attack on the nearby Fairchild Air Force Base. What I may consider doing, is giving neither team an uncappable base and balancing out the starting flags to be more even. For example, I could give the USMC the north side of the river, give the PLA the south side, and leave the center flags neutral. It's not as ideal as having 2 uncappable bases, but it would at least be fair.
a fly
Member
+105|6641|The netherlands

LG-MindBullets wrote:

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

Wow...unlike several of EA's urban maps...this one looks fun.

I'm no expert on the art of flag placement but to me it looks like revision 1 is the 16/32 size version of the map while the second revision is the 32/64 version (forgive me if that was stated by someone else already.)

The only thing I would change is to give the chinese team an uncapable flag (maps where only one side gets an uncap tend to become unbalanced....but then again those maps were all designed by EA)
Actually, they're both the 64 player versions, just different versions of flag/boundary layout.

I also don't like most maps that give only one team an uncappable base, allowing the other team the possibility to get capped out. However, I think giving the PLA an uncappable base in this level would contradict the premise of the level, which indicates that it's the USMC's objective to remove the PLA from the city before they can launch an attack on the nearby Fairchild Air Force Base. What I may consider doing, is giving neither team an uncappable base and balancing out the starting flags to be more even. For example, I could give the USMC the north side of the river, give the PLA the south side, and leave the center flags neutral. It's not as ideal as having 2 uncappable bases, but it would at least be fair.
but how could usmc be driven out of thier own country? the chinees have attacked there. you basicly sayd it
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA
I noticed several people mention that they didn't like the fact that the USMC had an uncappable base when the PLA didn't. Since it didn't seem to fit the premise of the level to give the PLA an uncappable base I thought I would make another revision where neither armies get an uncappable base, but instead start with 4 flags each leaving 2 neutral flags in the center. I added this revision to the top also. If you already voted for a revision and decide that you like this 3rd version better please post letting me know or edit your existing post. Thanks.

Revision 3:

https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7442/spokane64revised40ko.th.jpg
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

a fly wrote:

the 2nd one! it looks bigger, please add attack choppers
After thinking about the vehicle issue I have decided that the level would be best if the vehicles were limited to transports, boats, and helicopters. Basically, no jets or armor.

Each team would start with 1 transport helicopter and 1 attack helicopter. There would be a few small boats located along the river and several transport vehilces throughout the level at the various flags.

Thoughts?
Hugh_Jasss
Death is my Dominion
+10|6655|Sydney, Australia

LG-MindBullets wrote:

Thoughts?
no attack chopper - I hate air-dominant maps
but the other vehicles are ok (dont mind a transport copter...)

MAYBE an APC/Tank each.... but of course up to you (dont want spawn camping with those like @ karkand )
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6718|Kirkland, WA

Hugh_Jasss wrote:

LG-MindBullets wrote:

Thoughts?
no attack chopper - I hate air-dominant maps
but the other vehicles are ok (dont mind a transport copter...)

MAYBE an APC/Tank each.... but of course up to you (dont want spawn camping with those like @ karkand )
I think that with the number of transports and stinger platforms I plan on having in the level that having a couple attack helicopters wouldn't be that bad. After the new patch it only takes one continuous fire from a Humvee or Vodnik to take down a helicopter. I probably won't know for sure though until the level is near completion and it can be test played. As far as armor goes, I think it could work, it just seems that there are a lot of players opposed to having armor.
l41e
Member
+677|6645

Personally I don't really want another vehicle-dominated map like Sharqi.

At the very least, if you do decide to put in attack helis, make the spawn points indoors (so infantry don't get killed within a half-second of spawning).

Oh, and if the spawn points are indoors, put ladders to the roof or something. (so armor doesn't camp the doors)

Any feedback on my feedback?

Last edited by k30dxedle (2006-04-13 14:16:38)

Navyseal99
Unintentional Good-Guy
+0|6654
what you could do is you could make the team US Navy Seals Verses The Russian Spetz or Rebels even, just so that there would be a ranked map for SF
(Rebellion + Seals = MAYHEM!!!)

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