They showed what happens to a passenger aircraft when it hits something that dosen't move when they talked about flight 522 that crashed into a MOUNTAIN and scattered wreckage and bodies everywhere. And about the pentagon, I'll say it again. If it was an American Airlines jet then why did they take the videos that would have shown it and refuse to release them to the public. THAT IS THE QUESTION. As for the eyewitnesses, there were differing accounts of what people saw. And I'm still waiting on the link to that video you saw that SHOWS THE PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON.bob_6012 wrote:
if you take anything get up to a high enough speed and crash it into something that doesn't move you have mass carnage...and little pieces...and I would also like to point out again...how can anyone refute the 100+ eyewitness accounts that it was an American airlines jet? HOW? A child could tell you if they saw an airplane crash into a building...it's not that difficult to figure out...
And you can't prove anything you spout. I posted my proof to back up what I wrote; I've done my research, shown my sources, and have background in finite element analysis of structural-grade steel.Horseman 77 wrote:
uh oh ! someone found their old physics text book..Marconius wrote:
Annealed? So you are speculating that all of the structural steel was heated and subsequently cooled to make it stronger prior to the collapse? You amaze me with your keen grasp of metallurgical terms...Horseman 77 wrote:
As a guy who has spent some time around Blacksmiths,
My educated conclusion is that The Towers didn't Blow apart or melt at all but, it annealed.
The properties of the steel itself changed. ( Through heating )
I would bet everything I own that is exactly what happened.
Annealing isn't a hardening process exclusively.
Just as acceleration doesn't only apply to an increase in speed.
Depending on when, how and how fast you cool it you alter its properties.
Copper Wire is often annealed to make it more workable.
WTC steel never reached the cooling stage because it was inside the fire.
That's when steel is Softest. The fire never went out.
Cut and paste all you want to but in this case what you have read about once or twice,
I have done thousands of times.
People that have hands on experience are usually a more reliable a source then someone who can paste a hyper link.
Add to that, I was there when the second tower fell.
All are invited to draw their own conclusions.
Some Hy ku huh ?
Very good! The steel was indeed hot due to the fire and soft because of the heat...but if you noticed the Phase Diagram, you'll see that the actual physical structure of the steel wouldn't have been breached at the jet fuel temperature, and the eucstatic state for the ASTM E119 steel is much higher than the Phase Diagram's point.
"As eyewitnesses described and photographs demonstrate, the hijacked airliner dived so low as it approached the Pentagon that it actually hit the ground first, thereby dissipating much of the energy that might otherwise have caused more extensive damage to the building; nonetheless, as described by The New York Times, the plane still hit not "just the ground floor" but between the first and second floors."
Ok, so where in the pictures taken, right after the plane hit, do you see the giant skid mark on the lawn that would have happend if the plane had hit the ground first? Huh? What? Who? What skidmark? Uhh we have no comment on that.
Ok, so where in the pictures taken, right after the plane hit, do you see the giant skid mark on the lawn that would have happend if the plane had hit the ground first? Huh? What? Who? What skidmark? Uhh we have no comment on that.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/at4.htm
look at the effects of the AT4 warhead (now it relates to BF2), Isn't it possible that thats what happend to the plane? Other crashes have been in the open where much of the energy can disapate in every direction, here it was focused.
look at the effects of the AT4 warhead (now it relates to BF2), Isn't it possible that thats what happend to the plane? Other crashes have been in the open where much of the energy can disapate in every direction, here it was focused.
I ain't got a link...I can't give you a link to a tv...does anyone else know how I can redirect you to a tv?Ziggy_79x wrote:
They showed what happens to a passenger aircraft when it hits something that dosen't move when they talked about flight 522 that crashed into a MOUNTAIN and scattered wreckage and bodies everywhere. And about the pentagon, I'll say it again. If it was an American Airlines jet then why did they take the videos that would have shown it and refuse to release them to the public. THAT IS THE QUESTION. As for the eyewitnesses, there were differing accounts of what people saw. And I'm still waiting on the link to that video you saw that SHOWS THE PLANE HITTING THE PENTAGON.bob_6012 wrote:
if you take anything get up to a high enough speed and crash it into something that doesn't move you have mass carnage...and little pieces...and I would also like to point out again...how can anyone refute the 100+ eyewitness accounts that it was an American airlines jet? HOW? A child could tell you if they saw an airplane crash into a building...it's not that difficult to figure out...
Ain't a vid...but a site try this... http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html or this http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm maybe I am crazy and I thought I just saw the plane...whether or not there's a plane on the secruity footage...there is documented 757 aircraft wreckage inside the Pentagon...
Last edited by bob_6012 (2006-02-27 18:11:54)
Softer! Softer !! get it? The sides of The Towers bore the load and the sides had huge rents torn in themMarconius wrote:
And you can't prove anything you spout. I posted my proof to back up what I wrote; I've done my research, shown my sources, and have background in finite element analysis of structural-grade steel.Horseman 77 wrote:
uh oh ! someone found their old physics text book..Marconius wrote:
Annealed? So you are speculating that all of the structural steel was heated and subsequently cooled to make it stronger prior to the collapse? You amaze me with your keen grasp of metallurgical terms...
Annealing isn't a hardening process exclusively.
Just as acceleration doesn't only apply to an increase in speed.
Depending on when, how and how fast you cool it you alter its properties.
Copper Wire is often annealed to make it more workable.
WTC steel never reached the cooling stage because it was inside the fire.
That's when steel is Softest. The fire never went out.
Cut and paste all you want to but in this case what you have read about once or twice,
I have done thousands of times.
People that have hands on experience are usually a more reliable a source then someone who can paste a hyper link.
Add to that, I was there when the second tower fell.
All are invited to draw their own conclusions.
Some Hy ku huh ?
Very good! The steel was indeed hot due to the fire and soft because of the heat...but if you noticed the Phase Diagram, you'll see that the actual physical structure of the steel wouldn't have been breached at the jet fuel temperature, and the eucstatic state for the ASTM E119 steel is much higher than the Phase Diagram's point.
and the steel was weakend. I bet 1 Penn Plaza would go down if hit the same way also.
I think the The Pentagon seems to leave more room for this debate than WTC.
Why bother with planes if you had charges already set in The towers?
Now go find some more hyperlinks.
Now go get your shine box.
u yanks r a buch of conspiracy addicts u want 2 belive every thing is a conspiracy there is no way in hell it was staged its just plain stupid that someone u even think that
That statement is why nothing you say or any of your "knowledge" means shit to me. Yes I and others may get our knowledge from other sources and link to it. Unlike you who get your knowledge straight from your genius brain which knows all and sees all. You sir, are more full of shit than any conspiracy theory could ever hope and dream to be. Well, unless you really are an expert in all these fields; politics, metallurgy, foreign relations, aerodynamics, physics, thermodynamics, aerospace engineering, and last but not least architecture. Asshole.Horseman 77 wrote:
Why bother with planes if you had charges already set in The towers?
OK for those of you who haven't be on the inside of the goverment let me explain a few things for you. The goverment did know that something was going to occur on or around 911. Top officials, in accordance with current threat assestment policies, were redirected away from the potential threat. This sort of stuff happens all the time.Rathji wrote:
[b]
There is some evidence that cannot be denied:
- Many people in the WTC were warned not to go to work that day
- One Israelli IM company recieved a Text Message which warned them to leave the building about 4 hours before the attack.
- George Bush's brother, who was in charge of security at the WTC, was replaced on Sept 10, his replacement, who had some politcal fallout with President Bush started on Sept 11.
- The joint chiefs were scheduled to hold a meeting in the WTC on Sept 11, but had thier plans changed.
- Several prominant politicans were warned not to fly to NYC for several days before the attack.
- The owner of all the WTC buildings stated in a televised interview that WTC 7 did not collapse from fire, but was brought down by demolition charges.
Also, since almost no organization is tight lipped, word of these "redirections" spread through out the buildings and area. Hence the warnings not to come to work.
GWs brother could also fall into this category since he is a factor.
Joint chiefs..same as above
The reason the second building came down was mostly for the protection of many more. As unfortunate as it sounds, there is a theory that the building was brought down to protect the populated areas around it so the casualties would be minimized. As heartless as it sounds this, in thoery, would be the correct move since a building the size of the second tower could potentially kill thousands more if it came down wrong.
As someone who fough in the after math of 911 I would like to caution you all in believing in conspiracies. Given the right light, the right music, and presented in the right way..I could make Mother Teresa look like a 2 bit whore who did heron on a regular basis.
On the other hand, any democracy that is beyond accountablity is not a democracy...but a dictatorship in sheeps clothing.....
This is how I add things up when I think about it.
US has been "adjusting" international relations for decades and has for the most part been untouched.
On 911 we were harshly brought to the reality of the world.
From then to present we have librated a country of millions from the rule a crazed dictator.
Every country in the world now wonders where the US will turn its revenge driven gaze next...
Another words, much good has come from the fallout of 911 but how far will it go until the good stops?
Ohh yeah btw, if you know something about high rise construction, buildings the size of the twin towers do move. They swaw back and forth.... Just throwing that in since alot of people are trying to compair buidlings to mountains or assuming the towers as a fixed unmoveable object...
Softer! Softer! Yes! But still strong, asshole, if you actually bothered to take anything I posted into account. You've just proven that you know nothing of metallurgy, nor of intelligent debate.Horseman 77 wrote:
Softer! Softer !! get it? The sides of The Towers bore the load and the sides had huge rents torn in them
and the steel was weakend. I bet 1 Penn Plaza would go down if hit the same way also.
I think the The Pentagon seems to leave more room for this debate than WTC.
Why bother with planes if you had charges already set in The towers?
Now go find some more hyperlinks.
Now go get your shine box.
Your "why bother..." comment is just utter stupidity shining through. The entire point of this topic has gone over your head.
Ha! You remember what happened to the poor bastard who said "Now go get your shine box," right? Nice job...you establish yourself as Frank Vincent, which in turn makes me Joe Pesci who kicks the shit out of you, then stabs you in the trunk of the car. Just stop posting if you've nothing useful to contribute to this topic.
Oh really, I've been proven wrong? I really do not understand where. Unless you can give me some hard evidence about this whole "Pentagon cover-up" other than "OMFG there's no wreckage", I'm not going to believe what you say for a microsecond. And if you really believe that something other than a plane hit the Pentagon, then where the hell is the plane?xX[Elangbam]Xx wrote:
No one, well I think you've just been proven wrong here buddy. I honestly think that something has been covered up and thats because of the Pentagon incident. Everything just seems thrown off and suspicious. It's like saying there's no UFOs in this area and closing the lid on one right behind you. Why else would Bush rush into the Iraq war with no plausible proof? He was just shooting to win and hoped that by going into the war he'd find some type of incriminating evidence. And to anyone who thinks people have freedom of speech, the government has unimaginable power here and they can bend anyone's will so what these "eye witnesses" say may not be coming out of his or her own mouth but rather conjured up by a higher power to keep the "peace"
BTW, in case you've been watching too much CNN, Saddam's own generals have openly admitted to moving weapons of mass destruction to Syria under the disguise of providing food and water to survivors of a flood. http://www.nysun.com/article/26514
Damn i should of written everything at once. Those that ask why the plane that hit the pentagon wasn't shot down... I would like to ask every person who has servered in the US armed forces when this happened what was your initial responce? Where you really ready? Or where you as stunned and uncertain and 99.9% of the country. I was station in Groton CT aboard a sub when this went down. It wasn't until after the 2nd plane hit and some minutes in change that everyone knew it wasn't a accident.
Just a reminder...3 planes hit targets...4 planes went down
What really happened on the plane above PA?
Just a reminder...3 planes hit targets...4 planes went down
What really happened on the plane above PA?
LOL has anyone else been trying to figure out the conversation between Horseman 77 and marconius? Horseman...your argument is sound. If I remember right, there was something in the report about the metal "twisting" from the heat and the force.
Marconius, maybe if you tried not being so abusive in a discussion, reads like me won't think you bending over, grabbing a cheek in each hand, and make squaking noises from your butt. But then again, whatever works for ya mate.
Marconius, maybe if you tried not being so abusive in a discussion, reads like me won't think you bending over, grabbing a cheek in each hand, and make squaking noises from your butt. But then again, whatever works for ya mate.
every single barcode in the world that is printed on commercial products contains 666.
first tallest two thin lines=6
middle tallest two thin lines=6
last tallest two thin lines=6
one way to check this is finding an actual No.6 below the barcode, and figuring out what set of lines represents it by looking directly above the number; you'll find its the two thin lines...
first tallest two thin lines=6
middle tallest two thin lines=6
last tallest two thin lines=6
one way to check this is finding an actual No.6 below the barcode, and figuring out what set of lines represents it by looking directly above the number; you'll find its the two thin lines...
Marconius states his opinion then provides actual evidence to back it up. Horseman states a bunch of "facts" and then gives no proof to back it up. Then he talks down on the people providing links to what they are stating. He just expects us to believe he is an expert on everything. I don't think Marconius is being any more abusive than Horseman in any of the topics they have debated on. And btw it was Horseman that got "pissy" first in this thread by saying "go get your shine box". Sometimes I could swear this fool is on the government payroll.sfg-Ice__ wrote:
LOL has anyone else been trying to figure out the conversation between Horseman 77 and marconius? Horseman...your argument is sound. If I remember right, there was something in the report about the metal "twisting" from the heat and the force.
Marconius, maybe if you tried not being so abusive in a discussion, reads like me won't think you bending over, grabbing a cheek in each hand, and make squaking noises from your butt. But then again, whatever works for ya mate.
Forget it, just stay on topic. I have a serious problem with Horseman and I constantly get frustrated by him not being able to coherently add to any of the conversations in this particular section of the forums (search for the rest of his posts and tell me if they are "sound").sfg-Ice__ wrote:
LOL has anyone else been trying to figure out the conversation between Horseman 77 and marconius? Horseman...your argument is sound. If I remember right, there was something in the report about the metal "twisting" from the heat and the force.
Marconius, maybe if you tried not being so abusive in a discussion, reads like me won't think you bending over, grabbing a cheek in each hand, and make squaking noises from your butt. But then again, whatever works for ya mate.
LOL glad that had the desired affect. Right on man. What I'm having trouble with is that, even with your example (which are quite good), you don't accept that the steel in the building was weakened which contributed to the fall of the tower. I'm not saying it was the soul reason but it did contribute. Maybe I missed something with all the quotes and requotes. It started to get frustrated to read hehe.
A bunch of 12 year olds talking about conspiracy. HA ha Fucking Ha.
Maybe Life is a conspiracy...The machines have taken over and changed our reality to think this is reality. Our bodies are housed in giant spaceships and our thoughts controlled. But dont worry someone named Nemo or Neo, will rescue us.
Neverfear Fucktards
Maybe Life is a conspiracy...The machines have taken over and changed our reality to think this is reality. Our bodies are housed in giant spaceships and our thoughts controlled. But dont worry someone named Nemo or Neo, will rescue us.
Neverfear Fucktards
Branching off of what HukaMaster said, reading this thread has made me vomit repeatedly into the trash near my computer, but it was just so shocking that I had to finish it. Anyone who tries to contest that Bush or the American government has some serious issues. As much as I hate Bush, his policies, and the Republican party in control of the government, not even they would do such a thing. This sort of act is limited to cowardly, disgruntled malcontents, who kill thousands of innocents rather than try to actually do something about their problems. Watching the effects of 9/11 on my friends and myself, whether they were killed, orphaned or just scarred (I was one of the lucky ones, thank god), their continued trust (well, as much as you can expect) in our American government shows that the vast majority of Americans do not believe any of this conspiracy bull for a second. Quite frankly, you should be ashamed for even considering the possibilty that the American government, no matter how corrupt or idiotic they may be, would do this to its own people; literally, those who died in the Pentagon were not only citizens, but goevernment employees. I dont care if you flame me for any of this, and I know that people will; but you know what? If you decide to ramble on for pages trying to "prove" that the greatest national tragedy was nothing but a hoax, you need to spend some time looking at the purpose in your life. I would also suggest calling a psychiatrist and/or asylum.
Big mouth = little jimmyZiggy_79x wrote:
That statement is why nothing you say or any of your "knowledge" means shit to me. Yes I and others may get our knowledge from other sources and link to it. Unlike you who get your knowledge straight from your genius brain which knows all and sees all. You sir, are more full of shit than any conspiracy theory could ever hope and dream to be. Well, unless you really are an expert in all these fields; politics, metallurgy, foreign relations, aerodynamics, physics, thermodynamics, aerospace engineering, and last but not least architecture. Asshole.Horseman 77 wrote:
Why bother with planes if you had charges already set in The towers?
Safe place to act tough, bet that was no accident,
Seems like he got it, only you cant get it dude. maybe You have a serious problem periodMarconius wrote:
Forget it, just stay on topic. I have a serious problem with Horseman and I constantly get frustrated by him not being able to coherently add to any of the conversations in this particular section of the forums (search for the rest of his posts and tell me if they are "sound").sfg-Ice__ wrote:
LOL has anyone else been trying to figure out the conversation between Horseman 77 and marconius? Horseman...your argument is sound. If I remember right, there was something in the report about the metal "twisting" from the heat and the force.
Marconius, maybe if you tried not being so abusive in a discussion, reads like me won't think you bending over, grabbing a cheek in each hand, and make squaking noises from your butt. But then again, whatever works for ya mate.
lol . I never fell for all this conspiracy bullshit . All I did was stir you idiots up into a ball of frustration .
Because I could . Look at you now .
Because I could . Look at you now .
its ok some people feel at home here. Now they have to talk about area 51jonnykill wrote:
lol . I never fell for all this conspiracy bullshit . All I did was stir you idiots up into a ball of frustration .
Because I could . Look at you now .