Should you need an ID to vote?!

2012-10-05 13:12:56

#1

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5627

In many states all you need to do in order to vote is provide your information to the election agency which will send you a flyer telling you when and where to vote on election day. When you go to a polling place you tell them your name and they will bring up a list of people registered to vote, find you on the list, and make you sign your name.

It is argued that this leaves room for voter fraud that undermines our democratic republic. According to some the lack of an government issue ID allows illegals aliens and felons to vote.

People who are against voter ID laws claim that the intended effect is to suppress eligible voters who tend to vote democrat. The poor, minorities, and students all tend to lack government issued IDs There has been some troubling research into voter ID laws. One such finding is

According to the Brennan Center, about 11 percent of U.S. citizens, or roughly 21 million citizens, don't have government-issued photo ID.

But people can get IDs free of charge in most states right? Well many voters do not have access to vital documents needed. Many elderly do not have copies of their birth certificates for instance. Finding those old records are difficult. It can also be difficult and time consuming to reach a place that can print you out a valid state ID.

But voter fraud undermines our government right? Actually there has been a amazingly small amount of voter fraud since the year 2000

Recently, a Washington Post article reported on the findings of News21, a "Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project" which "found 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000. With 146 million registered voters in the United States, those represent about one for every 15 million prospective voters.

This still hasn't stopped the states of New Mexico, Utah, Idaho, Oklahoma, Kansas, Mississippi, Rhode Island and Wisconsin. Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Virginia from passing new voter ID laws after the 2008 election.

Looking at the map of states with voter ID laws next to a map with states from the '08 election gives some credence to the argument that there is concerted effort to prevent democrat votes. I have to agree with that argument.

http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/47545/voter%20id.png

http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/47545/voterid2.png

What do you think?

2012-10-05 16:14:50

#2

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

Of course it's to reduce Democrat votes. 1 in 15 million is not going to undermine the electoral system, but making it harder or in some cases impossible for certain people to vote will.

Last edited by Jaekus (2012-10-05 16:17:08)

2012-10-05 16:18:23

#3

pirana6: Go Cougs!; +687|6332|Washington St.

Didn't they find the amount of people affected by this that would actually work to fix is in the 100's? Nationwide.

2012-10-05 16:19:49

#4

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

It's once again politicians wasting time playing politics when they could be doing something far better with their tax payers' time and money.

2012-10-05 17:10:52

#5

jsnipy: ...; +3,276|6564|...

Not that anyone in this election is worth voting for, but I'm not sure why we would random unidentified people voting. Heard the same points ages ago.

2012-10-05 17:19:18

#6

Mutantbear: Semi Constructive Criticism; +1,431|6006|London, England

jsnipy wrote:
Not that anyone in this election is worth voting for, but I'm not sure why we would random unidentified people voting. Heard the same points ages ago.

wat

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

2012-10-05 19:19:25

#7

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5743|College Park, MD

i'm pretty sure the woman at the MVA almost registered me to vote when I went in to renew my driver's license. she was speeding through each page of the renewal process and at the voter registration one she said "would you like to register to vote?" and then hit "next." I told her I'm not a US citizen and she went back and clicked 'no.'

tl;dr i'm not a citizen and almost gained the power to vote

Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2012-10-05 19:19:37)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg

2012-10-05 22:24:02

#8

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6452|'Murka

Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm pretty sure the woman at the MVA almost registered me to vote when I went in to renew my driver's license. she was speeding through each page of the renewal process and at the voter registration one she said "would you like to register to vote?" and then hit "next." I told her I'm not a US citizen and she went back and clicked 'no.'

tl;dr i'm not a citizen and almost gained the power to vote

In the process of getting a government-issued ID. I can't imagine how arduous that was for you. I mean, my god, you had to go ALL the way to the DMV and STAND IN LINE and stuff! How did you survive?!

Sarcasm aside and OT: You have to have an ID for just about every single transaction you make these days...to include exercising your basic rights. Voting is not a right--it is a privilege. If it were a right, there wouldn't be groups who are not allowed to vote (ie, felons and a handful of others). It is (and should be) a wide-spread, easily attainable privilege, but a privilege nonetheless. Requiring voters to present an ID to prove they are who they claim to be and are eligible to vote is no more discriminatory than requiring someone to present an ID at a bank to prove they are eligible to do business there.

The discrimination claim is a red herring intended to kill any discussion of the topic: obviously, if you're for voter ID laws, you're a flaming racist; nobody wants to be a flaming racist, now do they?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2012-10-05 22:30:27

#9

_j5689_: Dreads & Bergers; +364|6758|Riva, MD

Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm pretty sure the woman at the MVA almost registered me to vote when I went in to renew my driver's license. she was speeding through each page of the renewal process and at the voter registration one she said "would you like to register to vote?" and then hit "next." I told her I'm not a US citizen and she went back and clicked 'no.'

tl;dr i'm not a citizen and almost gained the power to vote

I get the feeling they're told to do that cuz O'Malley loves him some illegal immigrant votes

2012-10-05 22:49:08

#10

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

FEOS wrote:
Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm pretty sure the woman at the MVA almost registered me to vote when I went in to renew my driver's license. she was speeding through each page of the renewal process and at the voter registration one she said "would you like to register to vote?" and then hit "next." I told her I'm not a US citizen and she went back and clicked 'no.'

tl;dr i'm not a citizen and almost gained the power to vote
In the process of getting a government-issued ID. I can't imagine how arduous that was for you. I mean, my god, you had to go ALL the way to the DMV and STAND IN LINE and stuff! How did you survive?!

Sarcasm aside and OT: You have to have an ID for just about every single transaction you make these days...to include exercising your basic rights. Voting is not a right--it is a privilege. If it were a right, there wouldn't be groups who are not allowed to vote (ie, felons and a handful of others). It is (and should be) a wide-spread, easily attainable privilege, but a privilege nonetheless. Requiring voters to present an ID to prove they are who they claim to be and are eligible to vote is no more discriminatory than requiring someone to present an ID at a bank to prove they are eligible to do business there.

The discrimination claim is a red herring intended to kill any discussion of the topic: obviously, if you're for voter ID laws, you're a flaming racist; nobody wants to be a flaming racist, now do they?

I have a few issues with this.

In a deomcracy you have rights. One of these democratic rights, and the cornerstone of what defines democracy in the first place, is voting for heads of state. Now, some people lose certain rights when they become felons, like the right to freedom (incarceration) and the right to vote. People who are not citizens do not have the right to vote because voting is really for the permanent people of a given country (ie. its citizens). Privileges are something you earn; you do not earn the choice to vote. You can choose not to exercise that right, but it is not something you have to pass some sort of test or deed to earn.

You don't need to present government issued ID when completing everyday banking, just the correct information the bank itself provides you.

This isn't a racial issue either. Some people would find it incredibly difficult to supply proper ID due to their circumstances. It's not like everyone has access to their birth certificate. For some it could prove to be a difficult, costly and time consuming process, especially those with disabilities.

2012-10-05 22:58:19

#11

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6723|Disaster Free Zone

FEOS wrote:
Voting is not a right--it is a privilege. If it were a right, there wouldn't be groups who are not allowed to vote (ie, felons and a handful of others). It is (and should be) a wide-spread, easily attainable privilege, but a privilege nonetheless. Requiring voters to present an ID to prove they are who they claim to be and are eligible to vote is no more discriminatory than requiring someone to present an ID at a bank to prove they are eligible to do business there.

Bit off topic, but does this mean guns are really just a privilege and not a 'right' as well?

We don't need ID here, but I wouldn't be against requiring ID if (and only if) the government were to 100% fund the IDs distribution. Put one of those microchips in them and vehicle licences and change of addresses can be update electronically. issue a new one every 5 or so year and the only cost to the citizens are when they lose or destroy the free one given to them (or renew licences etc).

2012-10-05 23:10:13

#12

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6723|Disaster Free Zone

Jaekus wrote:
Now, some people lose certain rights when they become felons, like the right to freedom (incarceration) and the right to vote.

Felons don't even lose the right to vote here. Their rights are suspended if they will be serving time for entire term of the house of reps, but all voting rights are returned on release.

2012-10-06 01:12:29

#13

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|6756|US

Jaekus wrote:
This isn't a racial issue either. Some people would find it incredibly difficult to supply proper ID due to their circumstances. It's not like everyone has access to their birth certificate. For some it could prove to be a difficult, costly and time consuming process, especially those with disabilities.

It's not like a birth certificate is the ONLY document you can use. Heck, a lot of places will accept a gas and electric bills as a way to get an ID.

2012-10-06 02:16:32

#14

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

RAIMIUS wrote:
Jaekus wrote:
This isn't a racial issue either. Some people would find it incredibly difficult to supply proper ID due to their circumstances. It's not like everyone has access to their birth certificate. For some it could prove to be a difficult, costly and time consuming process, especially those with disabilities.
It's not like a birth certificate is the ONLY document you can use. Heck, a lot of places will accept a gas and electric bills as a way to get an ID.

Wow, really? Here you absolutely need a birth certificate.

2012-10-06 04:11:22

#15

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6623|SE London

Do you not simply register to vote? Over here every house has letters sent to it again and again before elections reminding the residents to reply to the letter so receive their polling card which is used as your ID for voting.

No ID needed. Registration is checked against national records of citizens. The polling card you are sent back is your "ticket" for voting. You hand that in and get a vote.

2012-10-06 04:25:51

#16

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

We have pretty much the same system.

2012-10-06 06:57:11

#17

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5399|London, England

Here we have little old ladies with a book full of registered voters for the district. You have to present identification of some sort to verify you are who you say you are. Never seen anyone feel put out about it.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-10-06 07:23:35

#18

Camm: Feeding the Cats.; +761|5009|Dundee, Scotland.

Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm pretty sure the woman at the MVA almost registered me to vote when I went in to renew my driver's license. she was speeding through each page of the renewal process and at the voter registration one she said "would you like to register to vote?" and then hit "next." I told her I'm not a US citizen and she went back and clicked 'no.'

tl;dr i'm not a citizen and almost gained the power to vote

What are you then?

for a fatty you're a serious intellectual lightweight.

2012-10-06 07:27:26

#19

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

Jay wrote:
Here we have little old ladies with a book full of registered voters for the district. You have to present identification of some sort to verify you are who you say you are. Never seen anyone feel put out about it.

MacBeth wrote:
It can also be difficult and time consuming to reach a place that can print you out a valid state ID.

OP is specifically talking about one type of ID. And if you've got him on block why post in a thread created by him?

2012-10-06 07:42:27

#20

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5399|London, England

Jaekus wrote:
Jay wrote:
Here we have little old ladies with a book full of registered voters for the district. You have to present identification of some sort to verify you are who you say you are. Never seen anyone feel put out about it.
MacBeth wrote:
It can also be difficult and time consuming to reach a place that can print you out a valid state ID.
OP is specifically talking about one type of ID. And if you've got him on block why post in a thread created by him?

Oh, the thought of presenting an id is so abhorrent to you that an anecdote saying it's not a big deal bothers you? We don't require proof of citizenship, we require proof of residency at the polling place. Makes sense, yes? Vote in the town you are a permanent resident of, provide a license or water bill with your name on it and an address in the town. Awful.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-10-06 07:44:41

#21

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

Nice. That half addressed one point and ignored the other.

2012-10-06 07:49:46

#22

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5399|London, England

Jaekus wrote:
Nice. That half addressed one point and ignored the other.

Why does it matter if I have macbeth blocked?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-10-06 07:59:45

#23

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5220|Sydney

Because you can't read the OP so clearly you're missing the point of the thread.

2012-10-06 08:01:05

#24

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5399|London, England

Jaekus wrote:
Because you can't read the OP so clearly you're missing the point of the thread.

I wouldn't want to do his homework for him anyway.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-10-06 08:47:45

#25

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5743|College Park, MD

Camm wrote:
Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm pretty sure the woman at the MVA almost registered me to vote when I went in to renew my driver's license. she was speeding through each page of the renewal process and at the voter registration one she said "would you like to register to vote?" and then hit "next." I told her I'm not a US citizen and she went back and clicked 'no.'

tl;dr i'm not a citizen and almost gained the power to vote
What are you then?

U.S. Permanent Resident. It's an immigrant status but it's the closest one to being a citizen. It lets you live in the US indefinitely and work almost anywhere. The biggest things you don't get are voting rights and the ability to get jobs that require security clearances. You just renew your green card every ten years and as long as you don't commit a serious crime you can stay in the US as long as you want. After five years of residency you can apply for citizenship... I'm hitting the five year mark in March

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_permanent_resident

Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2012-10-06 08:48:00)

BF2S Forums Should you need an ID to vote?!

jsnipy wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Jay wrote:

MacBeth wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Jay wrote:

MacBeth wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Camm wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

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