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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:


latin america is far more 'violent' than africa. is that racial too?
There's a fairly large distortion in that people like you are/were prepared to pay almost any price to access illegal drugs from South America, never mind the social consequences.

Every line of coke should be delivered with a severed finger, every kilo with a severed head.
The average narcissist still wouldn't care.
so violence in south america is caused by economic forces/global trade,  legal policy, socioeconomic pressures ... your analysis is facile but at least its an analysis.

on the other hand, africa is violent 'because blacks'.

good to know.
The drug wars are a current gross distortion, factoring them out South Africa doesn't seem especially lawless.
Africa has been violent and uncivilised for a good while now.
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SuperJail Warden
Member
+191|1953

Dilbert_X wrote:

What it doesn't tell us is that angry white males are a particular problem in the world, whatever social justice warriors would have you believe.

Anyway, congrats on being wrong and insulting into the bargain.
Angry white men are a serious problem in the U.S. There is no black equivalent to Slayer and death metal. Gun culture is an almost exclusively white guy hobby in America. It is mostly white people buying into the industrial military complex propaganda and identity.

There are a lot of white guys who are doing very well for themselves and grew up in immense privilege who are still very angry and unhappy. They voted and gave us Trump.

I don't follow European culture too closely so I don't know how your average European male feels but I do know you guys don't have a gun culture, and American sniper vast fetish going. I know Latin America which is also western has a problem with everyday violence but their media doesn't glorify it. The people there are deeply embarrassed by it and want out.

So yeah, white American culture needs a Reformation too.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,965|3592|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Blacks are lazy and feckless because of the Scots? I think thats a bit of a stretch. Not that I'm arguing with you about the Scots.

Derpzique wrote:

it's to do with the breakdown of the bourgeois nuclear family unit – a thoroughly western idea if ever there was one. do you really think african american children are underperforming compared to their peers and dropping out of the accepted/expected norms because of the way tribes are organised in southern kenya? you truly are an idiot.
Culturally black Africans have never had a nuclear family unit, whereas Europeans have had them for centuries if not millennia.
They never had it so they can't have lost it. Aggressive and feckless behaviour is rooted in their genes.
Yes, the South was largely settled by people from pre-industrial Cumberland/Northumbria, Ulster and Scots. Virginia was largely settled by people from East Anglia, and New England was settled by people from Devon/Somerset/Dorset. When people emigrated here they tended to come in family groupings that reflected where they came from back in Europe. Entire towns relocated together.

After the Scottish highlands were enclosed after Culloden, the culture in Scotland changed. It became more Anglicized, industrial, and educated. Prior to this they were tribal smallholders that did the bare minimum to get by, stole, poached, and raided their neighbors. Honor was paramount and dueling and brawls were common. Hotheaded, lazy, willing to fight at the first sign of disrespect, uneducated, uninterested in business or improvement. This described both the Borderland/Scots, the transplanted Southern rednecks and their cultural kin in Northern urban ghettos. It's a direct cultural line. It really has nothing to do with Africa. Blacks were here for hundreds of years before they were released from slavery. They picked up their culture from the poor southern whites they lived and worked with.

Even "Ebonics" has been traced back directly to defunct British dialects. It really has nothing to do with a unique black culture rooted in slavery or whatever its promoters try to sell it as.

For all intents and purposes, black Americans are culturally pre-industrial British. They just have dark skin.

Last edited by Jay (2019-01-10 05:12:40)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+157|1686

Dilbert_X wrote:

Blacks are lazy and feckless because of the Scots? I think thats a bit of a stretch. Not that I'm arguing with you about the Scots.

Derpzique wrote:

it's to do with the breakdown of the bourgeois nuclear family unit – a thoroughly western idea if ever there was one. do you really think african american children are underperforming compared to their peers and dropping out of the accepted/expected norms because of the way tribes are organised in southern kenya? you truly are an idiot.
Culturally black Africans have never had a nuclear family unit, whereas Europeans have had them for centuries if not millennia.
They never had it so they can't have lost it. Aggressive and feckless behaviour is rooted in their genes.
yes but african americans culturally aren't 'black africans' are they? that's my entire point: anti-social and lawbreaking behaviour originates because of their conditions in the USA, not because of the fucking marital organisation of african tribes since time immemorial in mozambique. do you think they have some deep phylogenetic memory and hence predisposition to violence, or something? why aren't whites violent then, seeing as our ancestors were at one another's throats in ancient times, the dark ages, the middle ages and age of empire ... actually scratch that, right up until about 1945?

your weird genetic theories and racial essentialism is confusing, self-contradictory, and scientifically illiterate.

Last edited by uziq (2019-01-10 08:07:19)

uziq
Member
+157|1686

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


There's a fairly large distortion in that people like you are/were prepared to pay almost any price to access illegal drugs from South America, never mind the social consequences.

Every line of coke should be delivered with a severed finger, every kilo with a severed head.
The average narcissist still wouldn't care.
so violence in south america is caused by economic forces/global trade,  legal policy, socioeconomic pressures ... your analysis is facile but at least its an analysis.

on the other hand, africa is violent 'because blacks'.

good to know.
The drug wars are a current gross distortion, factoring them out South Africa doesn't seem especially lawless.
Africa has been violent and uncivilised for a good while now.
the drug wars and hence level of violence are a current gross distortion? you're not very good with the history of south america, are you?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,785|4866|949

Dilbert_X wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Blacks typically do commit more violent crime per capita than whites.
But in a country thats 90% white why are people surprised ~90% of the crime is committed by whites?
"ZOMG White people commit so much crime"
That and 100 blacks shooting 100 other blacks is less newsworthy than one white person shooting people.
No, it's not that simple.  White males make up something like 30% of the population but commit 60% of school shootings.  Of course you are a simpleton that assumes everyone else has as simple a mind as you do, so you try to obfuscate by putting out meaningless numbers and arguments to refute on your own.  Well done arguing against yourself.
You're not understanding your own numbers.

Murder generally, including mass shootings, is an almost exclusively male activity.
Using your figure - 30% of the population is white and male  - that would make 60% of the male population white.

Near 100% of mass shootings are carried out by men
60% of the male population is white
60% of school shootings are carried out by white males

Z E D  O H M Y  G O D  - I knew it its the white male patriarchy in action AGAIN

I'm prepared to bet around 60% of rapes in America are carried out by white males too.
This doesn't tell us much more than ethnicity isn't apparently a factor in rape or mass shootings.

What it doesn't tell us is that angry white males are a particular problem in the world, whatever social justice warriors would have you believe.

Anyway, congrats on being wrong and insulting into the bargain.
It seems like you're not understanding my numbers (the actual numbers, not figures i'm using to demonstrate a point).

non hispanic whites are ~60% of the population
of that, ~50% are male.

so lets use real numbers as examples.  60% of 100 is 60.  50% of that 60 is 30.  That means 30/100 = 30%.

30% of the population are responsible for 60% of the shootings.  White males are responsible for a disproportionate amount of school shootings.

Kind of bizarre to me that a self-described engineering nerd doesn't understand simple math as it relates to proportions?

Now that we have that figured out, we can go back to my original question-

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Why do white middle class boys shoot up schools, but minorities, girls and poor people don't?
Instead of immediately going down some absurd (and frankly, a bit weird) rabbit hole argument about white male patriarchy, let's actually reasonably address the question.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX
You're not understanding your own figures Ken. The proportions are fine, you're drawing conclusions which aren't there.
According to your own numbers 60% of the population is white, 60% of the population who commit mass murder is white too .
White people are perfectly represented in the figures, by default non-white minorities must also be perfectly represented. .
The only question is why men overwhelmingly commit murders and women generally don't. Your assertion about minorities is moot.

But you got me thinking, and I uncovered some amazing real world facts which are going to blow your mind:

Right-handed men make up 45% of the population but 90% of mass shooters

In terms of height the vast majority of mas shooters are within one quartile of the average

Jesus fucking christ man, if you learn that a man is white, right handed, around average height and owns a gun he's almost certain to be a mass shooter and you need to step in and stop that shit right there.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

the drug wars and hence level of violence are a current gross distortion? you're not very good with the history of south america, are you?
https://camo.githubusercontent.com/2a1f02775a5120bafea01bdd9e9634bbd5764fac/687474703a2f2f696d6775722e636f6d2f6f434169562e706e67
https://camo.githubusercontent.com/e0a0285b7af57c4d8c2bd86015f09a6d0ecc60a0/687474703a2f2f696d6775722e636f6d2f52764e484d2e706e67
https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/800-width/images/print-edition/20121124_SRM970.png
https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/800-width/images/print-edition/20121124_SRC392.png

Looks like a blip and distortion to me, factor out the drug-gang related killings and Mexico has European levels of murder.

But you enjoy your line of coke at your next publishing party.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-01-11 04:56:24)

Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
SuperJail Warden
Member
+191|1953

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jesus fucking christ man, if you learn that a man is white, right handed, around average height and owns a gun he's almost certain to be a mass shooter and you need to step in and stop that shit right there.
If I see a young white kid acting nervous in public while dressed in all black and with a back pack, I make sure to be prepared to act.

Same thing if a group of black men are behind me late at night.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+191|1953

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

the drug wars and hence level of violence are a current gross distortion? you're not very good with the history of south america, are you?
TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES




Looks like a blip and distortion to me, factor out the drug-gang related killings and Mexico has European levels of murder.

But you enjoy your line of coke at your next publishing party.
Latin America does have a serious violence problem. As far as developed countries go, they are the worst. The drug war is one problem but so is American gun manufacturing. These countries all have very tough gun laws and also don't have big defense manufacturers and militaries. Most of the guns used in murders across the Americas come from the U.S. It is unsurprising that the most murderous part of Mexico is on the border of Texas.

The murder rate of a lot of places would go up if you put Texas right next to it.
uziq
Member
+157|1686

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

the drug wars and hence level of violence are a current gross distortion? you're not very good with the history of south america, are you?
TODO: FIX GAL IMAGES




Looks like a blip and distortion to me, factor out the drug-gang related killings and Mexico has European levels of murder.

But you enjoy your line of coke at your next publishing party.
where did i deny the drug wars were a problem? not here. my point is latin america has been violent for centuries. you’re saying it’s a blip, which is not correct. i can’t follow your line of reasoning that africa is a uniquely violent place and that’s because it’s full of violent blacks. the aztecs and mayans were pretty violent.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX
I'm talking about now, not ancient history.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Blacks are lazy and feckless because of the Scots? I think thats a bit of a stretch. Not that I'm arguing with you about the Scots.

Derpzique wrote:

it's to do with the breakdown of the bourgeois nuclear family unit – a thoroughly western idea if ever there was one. do you really think african american children are underperforming compared to their peers and dropping out of the accepted/expected norms because of the way tribes are organised in southern kenya? you truly are an idiot.
Culturally black Africans have never had a nuclear family unit, whereas Europeans have had them for centuries if not millennia.
They never had it so they can't have lost it. Aggressive and feckless behaviour is rooted in their genes.
yes but african americans culturally aren't 'black africans' are they? that's my entire point: anti-social and lawbreaking behaviour originates because of their conditions in the USA, not because of the fucking marital organisation of african tribes since time immemorial in mozambique. do you think they have some deep phylogenetic memory and hence predisposition to violence, or something? why aren't whites violent then, seeing as our ancestors were at one another's throats in ancient times, the dark ages, the middle ages and age of empire ... actually scratch that, right up until about 1945?

your weird genetic theories and racial essentialism is confusing, self-contradictory, and scientifically illiterate.
Lack of family values, law-breaking behaviour seem to be a black-african trait wherever in the world they are, and whether or not they've been exposed to Scottish values.
Without parenting, schooling and general socialising people revert to their instincts. Go to an animal shelter to see what a dog is like if it has grown up with no discipline or caring upbringing. Often they're not recoverable and have to be put down.
Black Africans seem to have somewhat different instincts to Northern Europeans, Chinese etc, thanks to millennia of different evolutionary inputs.


The experiment has its roots in an earlier one performed in Trinidad, where Mischel noticed that the different ethnic groups living on the island had contrasting stereotypes about one another, in terms of the other's perceived recklessness, self-control, and ability to have fun.[7] This study focused on male and female children aged seven to nine (35 Black and 18 East Indian) in a rural Trinidad school. The children were required to indicate a choice between receiving a 1¢ candy immediately, or having a 10¢ candy given to them in one week's time. Mischel reported a significant ethnic difference, with Indian children showing far more ability to delay gratification as compared to African students, as well as large age differences, and that "Comparison of the 'high' versus 'low' socioeconomic groups on the experimental choice did not yield a significant difference".[7] Absence of the father was prevalent in the African-descent group but occurred only once in the East Indian group, and this variable showed the strongest link to delay of gratification, with children from intact families showing superior ability to delay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_ … experiment

Is it absent father or ethnic difference?

Do blacks have poorer outcomes because the father is absent or are they both linked to black ethnicity and one doesn't cause the other?
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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,965|3592|London, England
I don't think it has anything to do with genetics, the differences between races is minimal. It's environmental and cultural. The Northern Europeans you're putting on a pedestal were vikings and barbarian tribes not that long ago in evolutionary terms. At some point it became more effective to build for the future and delay gratification. I think you'd find the overwhelming correlation to be linked to strong systems of justice and stable governments that respected property rights. Why build if your goods will be stolen? Why build if you can be killed randomly tomorrow?

And yes, you'll find issues in mother dominated houses. A mother's overwhelming desire is to be loved by her child, which opens her up to manipulation by said child. A father's desire is to teach and be respected by his child. The latter indirectly teaches delayed gratification.

Last edited by Jay (2019-01-14 01:37:04)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX
Then its interesting that Africans have never really developed a strong democratic culture, and when they've had it forced on them eg through colonialism they revert as soon as the external forces are removed.

Personally I think culture and genetics are intertwined. You  can't have thousands of years of the most aggressive and feckless men being rewarded with multiple wives and multiple multiples of children without aggression and fecklessness being passed into the next generation.

Or maybe its the Scots all along? Maybe Maybe there are roving Scottish missionaries teaching lost tribes how to apply for dole and avoid child maintenance.
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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,965|3592|London, England
Because in the post-colonial era we propped up kleptocracies with massive amounts of foreign aid (bribes) to keep them "loyal" so they wouldn't commit genocide on all the white expats living there, or seizing all of the foreign investment companies had made. Devil you know and all that. Ultra corrupt kleptocracies aren't breeding grounds for democracy or respect for rule of law.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX
Having experienced civil society you'd think the populace wouldn't stand for a return to dictatorship.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
uziq
Member
+157|1686

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm talking about now, not ancient history.
this is why i said you don't know much about the history of latin america. were the revolutionary and civil wars of the 19th c 'ancient history'? what period of history are you cherrypicking from, here, to show a time when latin america was peaceful and prosperous and africa was a hell-hole? read a fucking book.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+191|1953

Dilbert wrote:

Personally I think culture and genetics are intertwined
I am reading a NYT article about a junkie couple who lost their kid to Child Protective Services and is trying to get the kid back. In the meantime, they went and had another kid. These kids have no chance.

The parents are drug addicts and the inability to moderate drug use is a genetic disorder I have been told by junkies and their advocates. So these kids are going to grow up with a lot of behavioral issues and later substance abuse problems.
coke
Aye up duck!
+435|4943|England. Stoke

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm talking about now, not ancient history.
this is why i said you don't know much about the history of latin america. were the revolutionary and civil wars of the 19th c 'ancient history'? what period of history are you cherrypicking from, here, to show a time when latin america was peaceful and prosperous and africa was a hell-hole? read a fucking book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War
SuperJail Warden
Member
+191|1953
People who bitch about the TSA are the worst. People should be screened before getting on a giant missile.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,785|4866|949

not by people making $14/hour who have repeatedly failed to catch what they are supposed to be screening during routine audits.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,965|3592|London, England
...and who are abusive and invasive and generally incompetent.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm talking about now, not ancient history.
this is why i said you don't know much about the history of latin america. were the revolutionary and civil wars of the 19th c 'ancient history'? what period of history are you cherrypicking from, here, to show a time when latin america was peaceful and prosperous and africa was a hell-hole? read a fucking book.
OK, I'm convinced, hispanics are as bad as blacks, I support Trump in building a wall.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,609|4339|eXtreme to the maX

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

not by people making $14/hour who have repeatedly failed to catch what they are supposed to be screening during routine audits.
I'm sure the average person would love to pay more taxes.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently

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