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2013-02-02 11:01:59

#576

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6214|...

Yeah no. I'm not fond of the idea of the EU being dragged into the kurds issue. They have no support for their 'fight against seperatists' in the union and their heavy handed treatment of the kurds is frowned upon by pretty much everyone. Not exactly an insignificant issue if you ask me. Turkey also scores abysmally on stats like press freedom and is culturally significantly different from all European nations.

Let's also not forget that if accepted into the union Turkey would become one of the 4 most powerful nations in it and occupy a substantial number of seats in the EU parliament. It would fundamentally change the EU in many ways. It really takes an ignoramus to casually disregard the issues associated with & implications of turkish membership of the EU.

Macbeth wrote:
The genocide was about a 100 years and done under a completely different government.

and yet they still like to pretend nothing happened

Last edited by Shocking (2013-02-02 11:08:02)

inane little opines

2013-02-02 11:32:16

#577

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5757|Toronto

Shocking wrote:
Yeah no. I'm not fond of the idea of the EU being dragged into the kurds issue. They have no support for their 'fight against seperatists' in the union and their heavy handed treatment of the kurds is frowned upon by pretty much everyone.

When the EU was formed Germany had just finished fighting a world war. I'm not about to recount relevant european history here (if you'd like, Tony Judt's "A History of Europe Since 1945" is an excellent overview), but I think we can agree there was some seriously detestable shit going on while new members were added. Have you any idea of what is happening to the Roma presently even under the EU banner? Probably not.

Shocking wrote:
Not exactly an insignificant issue if you ask me.

Maybe not insignificant, but certainly it's never been a deal-breaker in the past.

Shocking wrote:
Turkey also scores abysmally on stats like press freedom

Those conditions were added once Turkey came close to meeting the prior ones. A carrot on a stick while Turkey runs on a treadmill. They've been trying since 1963, and I'm almost certain they'll do the same the instant they have free press and have jumped through whatever other hoops.

Shocking wrote:
is culturally significantly different from all European nations.

My position makes a surprise appearance hidden under layers of deflection.

Shocking wrote:
Let's also not forget that if accepted into the union Turkey would become one of the 4 most powerful nations in it and occupy a substantial number of seats in the EU parliament. It would fundamentally change the EU in many ways. It really takes an ignoramus to casually disregard the issues associated with & implications of turkish membership of the EU.

That fear is tacked on the prior point (which I support), and I think adequately expresses what is really going on.

Xenophobia.

EDIT- to make things more interesting, I'll ask: What is fear really? Like, we're all one big organic unity, so like, you're scared of yourself... Why don't we just let the world change quickly and roll with the punches? Is death even a bad thing? Shouldn't we just like, let people be free?

What I'm saying is that I think there's no reason to fear a country that has been trying to be your friend for 50 years. Clearly they're willing to work with you in a big way, with only the promise of a payoff eventually. This is way more complicated than I'm making it sound (but if they join the incentive for improvement is gone!), but really, no country is ever going to be perfect. The point is, even the EU isn't perfect. At a certain point, you're going to look like assholes when Turkey surpasses some of your current members and you were too stupid to let them join the club and help out.

Last edited by Pochsy (2013-02-02 11:45:43)

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2013-02-02 12:14:16

#578

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

The real solution to the Turkey problem is to dissolve the EU. Of course, that's the correct solution to nearly every issue that Europe faces today... Seriously, the only good thing that has come out of the union is open borders.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-02-02 12:20:16

#579

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5757|Toronto

Jay wrote:
The real solution to the Turkey problem is to dissolve the EU. Of course, that's the correct solution to nearly every issue that Europe faces today... Seriously, the only good thing that has come out of the union is open borders.

Dissolve the United States then. It has states with just as large an economy, population, and ideological division.

I'll cut through 10 posts about how great the US is by saying only this: both were formed to change the balance of power. The economic benefit was just the icing to get people to the table.

Perhaps regional blocks are less important now (post Cold War), but it seems everyone is into the idea of making it work, and most of the logic seems to revolve around one point you harp on day in and day out: the chance to change culture.

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2013-02-02 12:42:12

#580

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5800

Jay wrote:
The real solution to the Turkey problem is to dissolve the EU. Of course, that's the correct solution to nearly every issue that Europe faces today.

Please stop posting on this subject. You obviously have not a clue as to what you are talking about. There is no reason to dissolve the largest economy in the world.

2013-02-02 12:42:50

#581

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

Pochsy wrote:
Jay wrote:
The real solution to the Turkey problem is to dissolve the EU. Of course, that's the correct solution to nearly every issue that Europe faces today... Seriously, the only good thing that has come out of the union is open borders.
Dissolve the United States then. It has states with just as large an economy, population, and ideological division.

I'll cut through 10 posts about how great the US is by saying only this: both were formed to change the balance of power. The economic benefit was just the icing to get people to the table.

Perhaps regional blocks are less important now (post Cold War), but it seems everyone is into the idea of making it work, and most of the logic seems to revolve around one point you harp on day in and day out: the chance to change culture.

The difference between the US and Europe is that we've had over two hundred years to get used to living under the same banner. Just about every economy in Europe is on the verge of collapse right now because of the Euro. The world changed, the thinking of the members of their governments and population did not change with it.

You've got countries like Greece and Spain that were promised that a universal currency would bring wealth and riches and instead it led to a housing bubble that gave them a false sense of their place in the world and now their economies are donezo. Without the Euro, these countries would be busy devaluing their currencies right now by printing money, causing inflation, crashing the value of their citizens' purchasing power relative to imports, all in the name of trying to boost exports and employment levels. In Greece's case, devaluation means being able to get out from under terrible contracts made with their labor unions and making pension payments less painful for the country as a whole. Instead, you have Germany propping up and bailing out country after country because having a single currency means their own exports can't be undercut by said devaluation. Basically, Europe is completely fucked right now because the only way for those countries to get out of their funk is for the population to take a big natural (versus government deval.) paycut and that just doesn't happen.

Then there is the issue of unelected officials passing regulations and altering peoples lifestyles across national borders... Europe right now is on course to enter an era of Politburo-style central government planning done by unelected officials. Awesome.

But yeah, the EU and the US are basically the same

2013-02-02 12:44:00

#582

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

Macbeth wrote:
Jay wrote:
The real solution to the Turkey problem is to dissolve the EU. Of course, that's the correct solution to nearly every issue that Europe faces today.
Please stop posting on this subject. You obviously have not a clue as to what you are talking about. There is no reason to dissolve the largest economy in the world.

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

2013-02-02 12:48:54

#583

coke: Aye up duck!; +440|6923|England. Stoke

Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Jay wrote:
The real solution to the Turkey problem is to dissolve the EU. Of course, that's the correct solution to nearly every issue that Europe faces today.
Please stop posting on this subject. You obviously have not a clue as to what you are talking about. There is no reason to dissolve the largest economy in the world.
You know nothing, Jon Snow.

https://www.channel4.com/media/images/Channel4/c4-news/authors/jon-snow-l_SML.png

2013-02-02 12:52:00

#584

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5757|Toronto

Jay, that was a wonderful polemic. Devoid of rationality, any coherent structure, and a general inattention fact. Well done.

Here's your fatal flaw (the rest I don't have time to bother with, honestly, I'd need you to read about 10 articles): the US took 200 years to get to where it is, and the EU had been around for 70 (in some form, ECSC is what I'm speaking of).

So Jay, what am I getting at?

Did the US not have a civil war? Did the US not have states continually trying to leave (let's ask Texas)? Did the US not bail out other states when they got into trouble? Maybe they should have bailed out states that they didn't (see Katrina)?

Answer to all above: Yes.

US should have quit once it had a Civil War or any of the other numerous issues it had and still has. It's obvious.

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2013-02-02 12:52:06

#585

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

Right now, we're in the middle of a currency war. Basically every non-Euro currency in the world is printing money in order to devalue and drive up exports. We're printing $85BN per month via various Quantitative Easings, Japans new PM Abe has vowed to devalue in order to boost exports, China is about to start their own round to keep pace. It's a race to the bottom, and the EU vs $ has skyrocketed over the past few months because of it. Because Germany dominates the Euro, and they have a vestigial revulsion to devaluation because of the Weimar Republic, they're sitting there watching as their exports collapse with their hands in their pockets and the rest of Europe burns.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&a … rOj0AGY9QE

2013-02-02 12:55:17

#586

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

Pochsy wrote:
Jay, that was a wonderful polemic. Devoid of rationality, any coherent structure, and a general inattention fact. Well done.

Here's your fatal flaw (the rest I don't have time to bother with, honestly, I'd need you to read about 10 articles): the US took 200 years to get to where it is, and the EU had been around for 70 (in some form, ECSC is what I'm speaking of).

So Jay, what am I getting at?

Did the US not have a civil war? Did the US not have states continually trying to leave (let's ask Texas)? Did the US not bail out other states when they got into trouble? Maybe they should have bailed out states that they didn't (see Katrina)?

Answer to all above: Yes.

US should have quit once it had a Civil War or any of the other numerous issues it had and still has. It's obvious.

Insult me all you want, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. France is bankrupt, Spain is bankrupt, Italy is bankrupt, Greece is bankrupt, Cyprus just requested a bailout. The grand experiment has failed.

And no, it's not about the 2007 crash, that just accelerated it. Why do you think the UK government actually acquiesced to holding a referendum on membership?

Last edited by Jay (2013-02-02 12:56:44)

2013-02-02 13:01:07

#587

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5757|Toronto

Jay wrote:
Right now, we're in the middle of a currency war. Basically every non-Euro currency in the world is printing money in order to devalue and drive up exports. We're printing $85BN per month via various Quantitative Easings, Japans new PM Abe has vowed to devalue in order to boost exports, China is about to start their own round to keep pace. It's a race to the bottom, and the EU vs $ has skyrocketed over the past few months because of it. Because Germany dominates the Euro, and they have a vestigial revulsion to devaluation because of the Weimar Republic, they're sitting there watching as their exports collapse with their hands in their pockets and the rest of Europe burns.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&a … rOj0AGY9QE

An excellent theory Jay. Apart from one thing:

http://www.indexmundi.com/trade/exports/?country=de

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2013-02-02 13:01:42

#588

coke: Aye up duck!; +440|6923|England. Stoke

Jay wrote:
Pochsy wrote:
Jay, that was a wonderful polemic. Devoid of rationality, any coherent structure, and a general inattention fact. Well done.

Here's your fatal flaw (the rest I don't have time to bother with, honestly, I'd need you to read about 10 articles): the US took 200 years to get to where it is, and the EU had been around for 70 (in some form, ECSC is what I'm speaking of).

So Jay, what am I getting at?

Did the US not have a civil war? Did the US not have states continually trying to leave (let's ask Texas)? Did the US not bail out other states when they got into trouble? Maybe they should have bailed out states that they didn't (see Katrina)?

Answer to all above: Yes.

US should have quit once it had a Civil War or any of the other numerous issues it had and still has. It's obvious.
Why do you think the UK government actually acquiesced to holding a referendum on membership?

Many reasons.

2013-02-02 13:04:06

#589

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

Pochsy wrote:
Jay wrote:
Right now, we're in the middle of a currency war. Basically every non-Euro currency in the world is printing money in order to devalue and drive up exports. We're printing $85BN per month via various Quantitative Easings, Japans new PM Abe has vowed to devalue in order to boost exports, China is about to start their own round to keep pace. It's a race to the bottom, and the EU vs $ has skyrocketed over the past few months because of it. Because Germany dominates the Euro, and they have a vestigial revulsion to devaluation because of the Weimar Republic, they're sitting there watching as their exports collapse with their hands in their pockets and the rest of Europe burns.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&a … rOj0AGY9QE
An excellent theory Jay. Apart from one thing:

http://www.indexmundi.com/trade/exports/?country=de

Do yourself a favor and actually do some research. I know you're mostly disagreeing with me simply because it's something I said rather than the opinion itself. If Europe stays on the Euro, there will be war and/or a revolution during our lifetime.

2013-02-02 13:07:11

#590

cl4u53w1t2: Salon-Bolschewist; +269|6687|Kakanien

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Dette_publique2011.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oh3h3DvY0

2013-02-02 13:10:10

#591

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6214|...

I hate dissecting posts into little parts because it looks ugly and it allows people to ignore context and so on, but oh well;

Pochsy wrote:
When the EU was formed Germany had just finished fighting a world war. I'm not about to recount relevant european history here (if you'd like, Tony Judt's "A History of Europe Since 1945" is an excellent overview), but I think we can agree there was some seriously detestable shit going on while new members were added. Have you any idea of what is happening to the Roma presently even under the EU banner? Probably not.

Maybe not insignificant, but certainly it's never been a deal-breaker in the past.

Those conditions were added once Turkey came close to meeting the prior ones. A carrot on a stick while Turkey runs on a treadmill. They've been trying since 1963, and I'm almost certain they'll do the same the instant they have free press and have jumped through whatever other hoops.

The EU now and the EU 50 years ago cannot be compared. It's an anachronism. While formally the EU was formed just after WW2 it has undergone its most significant changes since the end of the cold war, the introduction of the euro being the biggest one yet. Its current state and what it was at its roots are two entirely different things. It has expanded in its size, importance and responsibilities hence one would assume that admitting new members is becoming increasingly difficult as new demands to potential members are being added. What's also important to note is that while the end of WW2 motivated people in Europe to bridge cultural gaps and reach out to one another, you can only go so far. Between say, western Europe and Turkey there wasn't a cultural gap but a giant fucking canyon stretching out for miles and miles. The country has westernised in recent decades but there's still a number of issues.

Yes, I'm very well aware of "what's happening to the roma's" in Europe. Whatever the tensions, it can't be compared to the Kurds/Turks problem. Besides this, they're EU citizens. They're free to travel wherever they like. When Sarkozy put thousands of them on a plane back to Romania there was nothing stopping them from taking the first available flight back to France as they have the right to do so.

Pochsy wrote:
That fear is tacked on the prior point (which I support), and I think adequately expresses what is really going on.

Xenophobia.

EDIT- to make things more interesting, I'll ask: What is fear really? Like, we're all one big organic unity, so like, you're scared of yourself... Why don't we just let the world change quickly and roll with the punches? Is death even a bad thing? Shouldn't we just like, let people be free?

What I'm saying is that I think there's no reason to fear a country that has been trying to be your friend for 50 years. Clearly they're willing to work with you in a big way, with only the promise of a payoff eventually. This is way more complicated than I'm making it sound (but if they join the incentive for improvement is gone!), but really, no country is ever going to be perfect. The point is, even the EU isn't perfect. At a certain point, you're going to look like assholes when Turkey surpasses some of your current members and you were too stupid to let them join the club and help out.

I'm sorry but, what? Turkey is a gamechanger. It has a large economy and population, them becoming part of the union would effectively hand them the keys to changing EU-wide legislation as they will be one of the most powerful nations in it. It's not like admitting some relatively small nation like Croatia into the union. It would also be the most controversial addition because of obvious cultural differences, which will no doubt test the cohesion of the existing member states. They're not even part of the union yet and debate is already incredibly heated, a cause for rifts between the existing powers. Branding opponents of Turkey's admittance into the EU as xenophobes reveals a hopelessly simplistic view on European politics & understanding (not just knowledge) of its history and where Turkey fits in.

Membership may also have some negative consequences for Turkey as they will be forced to adapt to Europe, its cultures and values. Turkey will gradually lose its position as a bridge between west & east.

inane little opines

2013-02-02 13:10:52

#592

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5757|Toronto

Jay wrote:
Pochsy wrote:
Jay, that was a wonderful polemic. Devoid of rationality, any coherent structure, and a general inattention fact. Well done.

Here's your fatal flaw (the rest I don't have time to bother with, honestly, I'd need you to read about 10 articles): the US took 200 years to get to where it is, and the EU had been around for 70 (in some form, ECSC is what I'm speaking of).

So Jay, what am I getting at?

Did the US not have a civil war? Did the US not have states continually trying to leave (let's ask Texas)? Did the US not bail out other states when they got into trouble? Maybe they should have bailed out states that they didn't (see Katrina)?

Answer to all above: Yes.

US should have quit once it had a Civil War or any of the other numerous issues it had and still has. It's obvious.
Insult me all you want, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. France is bankrupt, Spain is bankrupt, Italy is bankrupt, Greece is bankrupt, Cyprus just requested a bailout. The grand experiment has failed.

And no, it's not about the 2007 crash, that just accelerated it. Why do you think the UK government actually acquiesced to holding a referendum on membership?

What in the flying fuck did this add to your argument? I just....another polemic? I don't know man. I'm thinking this proves my point to SM in the EE thread: some people can't handle a debate in which their opinions are questions. They can't separate thought from what constitutes their very being. You are just too invested in this emotionally. This is why we can't have nice things.

Please, tell me how the EU is different from the US and make a real comparison in order to prove a point. In this way, we test one case against another in order to determine a reasonable course of action.

I'm saying it is unreasonable to suggest that the EU dissolve. I'm saying it has other advantages not attached to economics. I'm saying they are moving down the path the US took on a much grander scale, so if you love America, you should love the EU. Unless you love America because you think it will make you rich. In which case you love nobody.

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2013-02-02 13:17:13

#593

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6214|...

And don't even try comparing the EU to the US state system. Similar ideological differences? x100 yours for a more accurate representation. The language barriers maybe? Not to mention the attachment people have to their national/cultural identities which each have thousands of years of history. Not in the least like the states in the US.

inane little opines

2013-02-02 13:17:46

#594

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5572|London, England

Pochsy wrote:
What in the flying fuck did this add to your argument? I just....another polemic? I don't know man. I'm thinking this proves my point to SM in the EE thread: some people can't handle a debate in which their opinions are questions. They can't separate thought from what constitutes their very being. You are just too invested in this emotionally. This is why we can't have nice things.

You don't get it. I don't do 'small talk'. If I'm going to take time out of my day to write something here I am going to be somewhat emotionally invested in it.

l2introvert

2013-02-02 13:24:19

#595

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6214|...

Jay wrote:
Do yourself a favor and actually do some research. I know you're mostly disagreeing with me simply because it's something I said rather than the opinion itself. If Europe stays on the Euro, there will be war and/or a revolution during our lifetime.

If the EU disbands, much the same. If the Euro is thrown out, you too will feel the shockwaves of the following depression. Besides this the EU is at its core a wonderful initiative and has contributed to the long-lasting peace. The vast majority of WW1/2 veterans were/are in favor of the project if only because it promotes dialogue & bonding between nations that in the not too distant past were bitter enemies.

inane little opines

2013-02-02 13:26:33

#596

Pochsy: Artifice of Eternity; +702|5757|Toronto

Shocking wrote:
I hate dissecting posts into little parts because it looks ugly and it allows people to ignore context and so on, but oh well

I like it, because it lets you know which point I'm trying to address to show that the argument is fallacious. Everyone here seems to like it too; I get my papers back with comments in the margins, not as a wall at the end.

Shocking wrote:
The EU now and the EU 50 years ago cannot be compared. It's an anachronism. While formally the EU was formed just after WW2 it has undergone its most significant changes since the end of the cold war, the introduction of the euro being the biggest one yet. Its current state and what it was at its roots are two entirely different things. It has expanded in its size, importance and responsibilities hence one would assume that admitting new members is becoming increasingly difficult as new demands to potential members are being added. What's also important to note is that while the end of WW2 motivated people in Europe to bridge cultural gaps and reach out to one another, you can only go so far. Between say, western Europe and Turkey there wasn't a cultural gap but a giant fucking canyon stretching out for miles and miles. The country has westernised in recent decades but there's still a number of issues.

When will it be Western enough for you? What is Western culture? 50 years and numerous attempts to meet targets that get changed doesn't seem like the gap really exists. Seems like the EU is creating it.

Shocking wrote:
Yes, I'm very well aware of "what's happening to the roma's" in Europe. Whatever the tensions, it can't be compared to the Kurds/Turks problem. Besides this, they're EU citizens. They're free to travel wherever they like. When Sarkozy put thousands of them on a plane back to Romania there was nothing stopping them from taking the first available flight back to France as they have the right to do so.

Right. The poor Roma people who can't afford to eat can take "the first available flight back to France." Ok. Also, in every other country they are hated just as much if not more. Nobody wants them. That's the whole problem. It's their culture they don't like. It's xenophobia at its root. There are many issues, but they are ALL underscored by this core dislike for their very being.

Shocking wrote:
It would also be the most controversial addition because of obvious cultural differences, which will no doubt test the cohesion of the existing member states. They're not even part of the union yet and debate is already incredibly heated, a cause for rifts between the existing powers. Branding opponents of Turkey's admittance into the EU as xenophobes reveals a hopelessly simplistic view on European politics & understanding (not just knowledge) of its history and where Turkey fits in.

So the point about their different culture comes up and the fear that causes in other states. But this is a misnomer? Ok. You appear to be make my case for me while poorly trying to dodge the term that applies to it.

Shocking wrote:
Membership may also have some negative consequences for Turkey as they will be forced to adapt to Europe, its cultures and values. Turkey will gradually lose its position as a bridge between west & east.

Save Turkey from itself. It doesn't know what it wants after 50 years of trying. It sounds like an after-school special. "I don't want to hurt you Turkey, I'm a bad person, I don't want to change you."

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families

2013-02-02 13:48:18

#597

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6214|...

Pochsy wrote:
Right. The poor Roma people who can't afford to eat can take "the first available flight back to France." Ok. Also, in every other country they are hated just as much if not more. Nobody wants them. That's the whole problem. It's their culture they don't like. It's xenophobia at its root. There are many issues, but they are ALL underscored by this core dislike for their very being.

Just because France booted them out doesn't mean everyone hates them, jezus. Sure, there's an actual xenophobe and racist base rooted in every country but it doesn't stop business anywhere from accepting cheap labor if offered. Take for example polish immigrants in my country; geert wilders and his ilk spout racist bull about these people almost as much as they do about arabs, nevertheless many business owners are happy with them because they work hard for low wages. & they're happy to work here. If the Roma can integrate themselves into the labor market they will be fine, and as EU citizens there's an opportunity for them to do so literally everywhere. Also, spare me your sentimental narrative.

As for Turkey, if only it were so easy as admitting everyone who just wants to join, ey? Who cares about political consequences and issues that may arise in regards to integration? Who cares about fundamentally changing the EU and everything it is, on a whim? Everyone who's not sure about that or doesn't want to is just a racist xenophobe, yup.

Look, Turkey, as far as I'm concerned, should never be a member. If you can't understand this, too bad. Observing the EU from about 5000 miles away seems to do nothing but leave you somewhat inconsiderate of the implications of Turkish membership and more or less blind to the tensions that exist between different people. You cannot force cohesion. It's an all-around bad idea. Not wanting to play with Turkey does not mean the existing members are xenophobes. The majority simply prefer a more distant (friendly) relationship.

might as well say Russia should be a member if they want to

Last edited by Shocking (2013-02-02 13:53:41)

inane little opines

2013-02-02 14:07:14

#598

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5800

Jay wrote:
Pochsy wrote:
Jay wrote:
Right now, we're in the middle of a currency war. Basically every non-Euro currency in the world is printing money in order to devalue and drive up exports. We're printing $85BN per month via various Quantitative Easings, Japans new PM Abe has vowed to devalue in order to boost exports, China is about to start their own round to keep pace. It's a race to the bottom, and the EU vs $ has skyrocketed over the past few months because of it. Because Germany dominates the Euro, and they have a vestigial revulsion to devaluation because of the Weimar Republic, they're sitting there watching as their exports collapse with their hands in their pockets and the rest of Europe burns.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&a … rOj0AGY9QE
An excellent theory Jay. Apart from one thing:

http://www.indexmundi.com/trade/exports/?country=de
Do yourself a favor and actually do some research. I know you're mostly disagreeing with me simply because it's something I said rather than the opinion itself. If Europe stays on the Euro, there will be war and/or a revolution during our lifetime.

wat hahaha yeah the EU will lead to 1848 revolutions all over Europe and topped off with world war 3.

Never took you as Muslimphobic Shocking.

Last edited by Macbeth (2013-02-02 14:17:15)

2013-02-02 15:18:36

#599

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6214|...

Turkish membership of the EU would severely disrupt the existing power balance, which is not a good thing. Especially not now. I also despise their treatment of the kurds.

ill reiterate, you might as well say Russia should be a member. Noone would accuse me of xenophobia if I opposed that. You people are race obsessed.

inane little opines

2013-02-02 15:22:49

#600

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5800

Muslim is not a race. But since you brought up race you must really be racist.

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