globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|6330|Graz, Austria
The speakers in those surround headphones are way too close together and too close to the (pressed down) auricle and outer ear to produce any good surround sound.
Also, due to having multiple smaller speakers instead of a single big one, the dynamic range is much worse.

Head-Related Transfer Functions are good enough to get virtual surround on simple stereo headphones.
And you could rather invest the money saved to get a good pair.

If you want to get the perfect headphone surround sound, you'd need to have a dummy head modeled after your own head for recording sounds.
And again, based on that dummy head, calculate virtual surround for games.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6112|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

never said wine making wasn't a craft. i said it's bullshit that someone's taste will 'develop' in 20 years so they can 'appreciate' a drink more. a) it's subjective, b) your taste isn't a faculty that improves progressively, like some sort of knowledge or memory.
So wine appreciation is subjective but appreciation of novels is a hard science.

Keep digging, this stuff is gold.
idiot..... twat.... mong.
Those are some compelling arguments there.

Really all the arguments you use to justify literature appreciation and denigrate wine appreciation can be flipped around ever so easily.

Can you appreciate art as your eyesight decays? Isn't your appreciation exactly the same as a childs whould be? Who is to know you're hearing a piece of music exactly the same as anyone else?

Beyond a certain level everything becomes faux-elitism and the measures approach the absurd, literature is not an exception.

I'm glad Jaekus got a posh bottle of wine, I would have liked to have known if it was really any different from a $20-a-bottle drop.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-06-26 03:12:15)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
you're an idiot. reading novels is about knowledge. you can appreciate the detail and art of a novel by reading more... about novels, about the period, about the author, about anything. reading is an intellectual activity. tasting something is sensory. i know there's good wine and bad wine, stuff that is high quality and stuff that is low. there is also personal taste-preferences, entirely subjective. what i am saying is that drinking wine for 20 years will  not make you a 'more adept' taster of wine. your sense of taste only changes as you age, completely arbitrarily, and has nothing to do with 'honing a palette'. this is pseudo-bollocks. even top wine tasters are inconsistent. there is literally no foundation in the idea you can taste a lot of wines and have an instinctively-trained 'better taste'. no more than the idea that by rubbing a lot of tree bark your sense of touch will 'acquire' improvement and become more sensitive. it is total bollocks. reading, being intellectual, means that if you read for 20 years... you will have 20 years of actual KNOWLEDGE about topics, about aesthetics, about novelistic style. people become 'fine art' appreciators because they have a lot of knowledge, expertise, and wide-reading. it involves some intellectual work. people become 'wine tasters' by talking entirely about subjective taste-impressions. 'taste' is like 'pain' - how do you qualify it? with writing there is actual technique. a novel has actual content. you can check (objective) reference works. you can read histories and studies that are related to the novel. how would you 'improve' your sense of taste over 20 years, in the same conscious fashion? your taste-buds and sense of taste changes as you get older. it is out of your control. there is no 'refinement' to be pursued. other than drinking a lot and becoming one of those boring people with a red nose who slur words about 'terroir' and 'cinnamon hints' at the end of a fulfilling meal.

imo 75% of the 'value' of an expensive wine comes from reputation/prestige/veblen good appeal alone. it is just an industry applying a specious sense of quality to a drink. it makes no more sense than lobster being (arbitrarily) expensive in restaurants - it's all perception, anticipation, the 'image'. people pay a lot for lobster and think it tastes 'divine' because it costs a lot and now has a social capital (which q.v. levi-strauss on the sociology of food). regardless of the fact that 100 years ago lobster was so common that people thought it was cruel to feed prisoners in the american north-east lobster more than once a week. it is ALL perception. if you put something in a cellar for 20 years, you are going to place a lot of apprehension and expectation about that drink. when you finally uncork it, you're going to be convinced you are drinking something that is 'objectively' better - despite the fact your taste-buds and sense-receptors have irrevocably changed between the present and that past, 20 years ago (i.e. there is no way to reasonably gauge it; no control). it is pretty much a totally specious placebo effect. the fact top wine tasters - in the WORLD - cannot consistently identify 'great' quality wine should say it all. no literature critic is mistaking 50 shades of grey for homer.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-06-26 03:41:45)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6112|eXtreme to the maX
No-ones said your tastes improve, just that you have a better understanding of what your tastes are telling you - just as once you've mastered the alphabet your reading can't 'improve', but your understanding of what you're reading can adapt.

Wine-tasting is a widely compared field, just as reviewing literature is, it all boils down to opinion, they're about equally rigourous.
People 'value' certain works of literature largely because everyone else does just as the collective opinion rates some wines 'higher' than others for no real defined reason.

So while you pour scorn on people who have an interest in wine no-on really takes any notice of your pretensions regarding literature.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-06-26 03:44:32)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
let me know when literature critics start mistaking airport fiction for virgil and dante. wine tasting a 'widely reviewed' field? ok. let me know when universities start offering 'wine tasting' courses, or when there are academic peer-reviewed journals given over to wine criticism. i look forward to hearing about developments in wine interpretation theory.

the 'science' of 'good' wine can be predicted on a spreadsheet using local weather/sunshine/soil stats. after that, it's all bullshit.

...we must [here] take sensus communis to mean the idea of a sense shared [by us all], i.e., a power to judge that in reflecting takes account (a priori), in our thought, of everyone else's way of presenting [something], in order as it were to compare our own judgement with human reason in general... Now we do this as follows: we compare our judgement not so much with the actual as rather with the merely possible judgements of others, and [thus] put ourselves in the position of everyone else..."

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-06-26 03:46:59)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6112|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

let me know when literature critics start mistaking airport fiction for virgil and dante.
No-one really cares though, its their opinion, most people will pick up a Tom Clancy and get more enjoyment out of it than they would wading through turge to impress their friends.

Just as I'll enjoy a $10 cleanskin just as much as someone down the road will uncorking a $1,000/bottle Penfolds.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
personal enjoyment doesn't have anything to do with 'improving one's taste empirically over 20 years' though. i enjoy £8 bottles of bargain-bin wine if it's sweet enough and gets me drunk on a night out. that's the same as someone enjoying a clancy novel on a beach somewhere. does the job. perfectly agreeable. bish bash bosh. done. the thing is, saying if you drink bargain-bin wine for 20 years you'll have a more 'nuanced' appreciation of it, because your taste has 'learnt' things, is total bollocks. beyond the point of being able to gurgle the stuff and separate taste receptors on your tongue, i.e. beyond being able to branch out and realize your full taste-range, there is nothing more to it. a novel involves learning/knowledge. tasting something involves a fleeting sense-experience. you retain solid knowledge from novels. can you recall with exact empirical precision the taste of a mouthful of wine you had last night? no. have fun telling me how much better you'll remember it in 20 years' time.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-06-26 03:51:32)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6723

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

let me know when universities start offering 'wine tasting' courses, or when there are academic peer-reviewed journals given over to wine criticism.
http://www.purdue.edu/advisors/courses_ … fs470.html

http://extension.ucdavis.edu/unit/winem … preciation

http://www.bu.edu/foodandwine/wine-programs/
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Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261

Cybargs wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

let me know when universities start offering 'wine tasting' courses, or when there are academic peer-reviewed journals given over to wine criticism.
http://www.purdue.edu/advisors/courses_ … fs470.html

http://extension.ucdavis.edu/unit/winem … preciation

http://www.bu.edu/foodandwine/wine-programs/
you can get niche courses for lady gaga studies too. doesn't mean it's a rigorous discipline.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6723
i think its part of a wider discipline under "nutrition and culinary arts."

but yeah just letting you know that unis are offering wine tasting courses.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6112|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

personal enjoyment doesn't have anything to do with 'improving one's taste empirically over 20 years' though. i enjoy £8 bottles of bargain-bin wine if it's sweet enough and gets me drunk on a night out. that's the same as someone enjoying a clancy novel on a beach somewhere. does the job. perfectly agreeable. bish bash bosh. done. the thing is, saying if you drink bargain-bin wine for 20 years you'll have a more 'nuanced' appreciation of it, because your taste has 'learnt' things, is total bollocks. beyond the point of being able to gurgle the stuff and separate taste receptors on your tongue, i.e. beyond being able to branch out and realize your full taste-range, there is nothing more to it. a novel involves learning/knowledge. tasting something involves a fleeting sense-experience. you retain solid knowledge from novels. can you recall with exact empirical precision the taste of a mouthful of wine you had last night? no. have fun telling me how much better you'll remember it in 20 years' time.
2nd time, no-ones said drinking will improve your understanding of wine any more than reading the full series of Wilbur Smiths (which I've done) will help you with 'literatoor', there are courses, books, lectures to attend, research to do etc - just as any subject.

I'm pretty sure many colleges run courses in viticulture, and wine-tasting will be part of it.

But you're right, running complete departments and offering degrees etc in something nebulous and subjective like wine-tasting would be utterly futile and a pointless waste of life for the people who signed up for it.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-06-26 03:56:39)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
extension courses with no proper certification. not exactly seeing it as a widely-instituted area of rigorous study, worldwide, like literature and the arts are. you couldn't even get 5 wine experts in a room together to agree on anything near consistent bases. but okay. guess purdue is proving the world wrong. you can 'train' taste over 20 years
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

personal enjoyment doesn't have anything to do with 'improving one's taste empirically over 20 years' though. i enjoy £8 bottles of bargain-bin wine if it's sweet enough and gets me drunk on a night out. that's the same as someone enjoying a clancy novel on a beach somewhere. does the job. perfectly agreeable. bish bash bosh. done. the thing is, saying if you drink bargain-bin wine for 20 years you'll have a more 'nuanced' appreciation of it, because your taste has 'learnt' things, is total bollocks. beyond the point of being able to gurgle the stuff and separate taste receptors on your tongue, i.e. beyond being able to branch out and realize your full taste-range, there is nothing more to it. a novel involves learning/knowledge. tasting something involves a fleeting sense-experience. you retain solid knowledge from novels. can you recall with exact empirical precision the taste of a mouthful of wine you had last night? no. have fun telling me how much better you'll remember it in 20 years' time.
2nd time, no-ones said drinking will improve your understanding of wine any more than reading the full series of Wilbur Smiths (which I've done) will help you with 'literatoor', there are courses, books, lectures to attend, research to do etc - just as any subject.

I'm pretty sure many colleges run courses in viticulture, and wine-tasting will be part of it.

But you're right, running complete departments and offering degrees etc in something nebulous and subjective like wine-tasting would be utterly futile and a pointless waste of life for the people who signed up for it.
uuh all i've disagreed with in this thread is jaekus' statement that putting a nice bottle of wine away for 20 years will mean he can 'appreciate' it more after years of continued tasting. i.e. precisely arguing that he will have a 'honed' sense of taste that will bring out the flavors more. that is bs. he may be able to talk about the taste of his wine more comprehensively. he may be able to use terms like 'undertones' and 'terroir' and sound terribly impressive. but will his taste - his tongue, his taste buds, his senses - have 'improved'? no. you may as well drink it now if that's your genuine reason. obviously wine itself matures and acquires a different flavour over time. but that's a different reasoning to claiming you're 'banking' it for when 'you'll be a better taster'. you don't become a 'better taster'. once you learn techniques for swilling the gosh around your mouth, that's it. it's not like he's going to progress up through ever-increasing plateaus of taste-experience.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6691|United States of America
The wine tasting course at Purdue is apparently rather difficult. You learn about the process of making it and about the variations between different varieties, but it's certainly not some sort of snooty "learn how to look down your nose at poor people drinking cheap wine" thing.
Adams_BJ
Russian warship, go fuck yourself
+2,053|6629|Little Bentcock
I still havent been told how to buy some of you, Jaekus.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6112|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

uuh all i've disagreed with in this thread is jaekus' statement that putting a nice bottle of wine away for 20 years will mean he can 'appreciate' it more after years of continued tasting. i.e. precisely arguing that he will have a 'honed' sense of taste that will bring out the flavors more. that is bs. he may be able to talk about the taste of his wine more comprehensively. he may be able to use terms like 'undertones' and 'terroir' and sound terribly impressive. but will his taste - his tongue, his taste buds, his senses - have 'improved'? no. you may as well drink it now if that's your genuine reason. obviously wine itself matures and acquires a different flavour over time. but that's a different reasoning to claiming you're 'banking' it for when 'you'll be a better taster'. you don't become a 'better taster'. once you learn techniques for swilling the gosh around your mouth, that's it. it's not like he's going to progress up through ever-increasing plateaus of taste-experience.
There are no 'plateaus of taste-experience' any more than there are of 'plateaus of poetry recitation', but a greater education and wider experience help no?
When an untrained person gulps down a bit of Chiraz they miss all the subtle elements a trained and researched person will be able to identify. Its hardly a big deal any more than knowing what 'The Wizard of Oz' is supposedly about really adds a lot.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
I think you're missing the obvious point that art is about intellectual matters. it's not about sensuous pleasure. you have things to contemplate and learn from a novel or philosophy text. drinking wine and being able to pick out nutmeg is not getting you anywhere.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6723

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

I think you're missing the obvious point that art is about intellectual matters. it's not about sensuous pleasure. you have things to contemplate and learn from a novel or philosophy text. drinking wine and being able to pick out nutmeg is not getting you anywhere.
Unless youre selling wine to the chinese its good money these days
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Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
are you equating making money with intellectual progress?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6112|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

I think you're missing the obvious point that art is about intellectual matters. it's not about sensuous pleasure. you have things to contemplate and learn from a novel or philosophy text. drinking wine and being able to pick out nutmeg is not getting you anywhere.
The relevance of the nutmeg depends on the cultural and historical significance no?

Its all faux-elitist bullshit really.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6688|Disaster Free Zone

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

personal enjoyment doesn't have anything to do with 'improving one's taste empirically over 20 years' though. i enjoy £8 bottles of bargain-bin wine if it's sweet enough and gets me drunk on a night out. that's the same as someone enjoying a clancy novel on a beach somewhere. does the job. perfectly agreeable. bish bash bosh. done. the thing is, saying if you drink bargain-bin wine for 20 years you'll have a more 'nuanced' appreciation of it, because your taste has 'learnt' things, is total bollocks. beyond the point of being able to gurgle the stuff and separate taste receptors on your tongue, i.e. beyond being able to branch out and realize your full taste-range, there is nothing more to it. a novel involves learning/knowledge. tasting something involves a fleeting sense-experience. you retain solid knowledge from novels. can you recall with exact empirical precision the taste of a mouthful of wine you had last night? no. have fun telling me how much better you'll remember it in 20 years' time.
2nd time, no-ones said drinking will improve your understanding of wine any more than reading the full series of Wilbur Smiths (which I've done) will help you with 'literatoor', there are courses, books, lectures to attend, research to do etc - just as any subject.

I'm pretty sure many colleges run courses in viticulture, and wine-tasting will be part of it.

But you're right, running complete departments and offering degrees etc in something nebulous and subjective like wine-tasting would be utterly futile and a pointless waste of life for the people who signed up for it.
uuh all i've disagreed with in this thread is jaekus' statement that putting a nice bottle of wine away for 20 years will mean he can 'appreciate' it more after years of continued tasting. i.e. precisely arguing that he will have a 'honed' sense of taste that will bring out the flavors more. that is bs. he may be able to talk about the taste of his wine more comprehensively. he may be able to use terms like 'undertones' and 'terroir' and sound terribly impressive. but will his taste - his tongue, his taste buds, his senses - have 'improved'? no. you may as well drink it now if that's your genuine reason. obviously wine itself matures and acquires a different flavour over time. but that's a different reasoning to claiming you're 'banking' it for when 'you'll be a better taster'. you don't become a 'better taster'. once you learn techniques for swilling the gosh around your mouth, that's it. it's not like he's going to progress up through ever-increasing plateaus of taste-experience.
He's putting it away so the WINE can mature, not his sense of taste... omfg, shut up already.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4261
go read his post. idiot.
bennisboy
Member
+829|6653|Poundland
On topic. I got a pay rise today
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+563|6720|Purplicious Wisconsin
I got my new Eldar codex today.
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|6759|Toronto, ON

bennisboy wrote:

On topic. I got a pay rise today
I also got a pay raise, 4%.
Alpha as fuck.

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