uziq
Member
+492|3452

Larssen wrote:

The speed at which the EU is doing this is depressing.
wasn’t i saying this 5 weeks ago? and you were telling me how, actually, letting individual members states (that is, germany and france), publicly vacillate and sow doubt over perfectly safe and APPROVED vaccines was ‘a good thing’?

the EU has been the most ineffective, bureaucratically-mired, redundant and unnecessarily politicised organisation in the WORLD when it comes to a covid response. numerous diplomatic incidents and climb downs. ‘vaccine nationalism’.

i could understand the trump administration doing a dirty with vaccine supplies. i could understand a china or a russia being shits about vaccines. instead china, russia and india are selling their vaccines to other nations. it’s EUROPE, beacon of the free world, the sophisticated adults in the room, the high-point of liberalism, which has dithered and fucked it up.

i told you 4 weeks ago there was going to be a major third wave in europe because people like macron were showboating over the ‘quasi-ineffective’ british vaccine whilst having NOTHING as a feasible, widely available plan B.
uziq
Member
+492|3452

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Boris Johnson literally the least cucked man in Europe.
yeah i am shocked too and sincerely hope no european nation gets near to our death figures. but it’s possible. germany and france are on the edge of losing control in a big way like we did when our science-denying leaders put ideology and political polling opportunism first.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

yeah i am shocked too and sincerely hope no european nation gets near to our death figures.
I asked Gylfi what had given Iceland this edge, he was adamant: "It has been the scientists making up the rules, not the politicians. That matters. They know what they are talking about, the politicians do not."

At every step, Iceland has followed the science, led by Prof Gudnason and his team, with politicians nowhere to be seen in the daily briefings.

"I think it's important for a politician to realise what is politics and what needs to be solved by scientific means. It's my firm belief that we need to listen more to the experts"
Katrin Jakobsdottir
Iceland Prime Minister
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56412790

https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/GettyImages-1188991486-1160x774.jpg
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3452
are you trying to make a point to me that dominic cummings was bad for government? wow a great point, surely.

where your intelligent god-brained analysis goes wrong is in thinking dom cummings is the perfect representative of a 'humanities graduate'. off dilbert goes, down the rabbithole of his own insipid monomanias again. dom cummings is an idiot to any right-thinking person, regardless of educational background.
Larssen
Member
+99|1887

uziq wrote:

Larssen wrote:

The speed at which the EU is doing this is depressing.
wasn’t i saying this 5 weeks ago? and you were telling me how, actually, letting individual members states (that is, germany and france), publicly vacillate and sow doubt over perfectly safe and APPROVED vaccines was ‘a good thing’?

the EU has been the most ineffective, bureaucratically-mired, redundant and unnecessarily politicised organisation in the WORLD when it comes to a covid response. numerous diplomatic incidents and climb downs. ‘vaccine nationalism’.

i could understand the trump administration doing a dirty with vaccine supplies. i could understand a china or a russia being shits about vaccines. instead china, russia and india are selling their vaccines to other nations. it’s EUROPE, beacon of the free world, the sophisticated adults in the room, the high-point of liberalism, which has dithered and fucked it up.

i told you 4 weeks ago there was going to be a major third wave in europe because people like macron were showboating over the ‘quasi-ineffective’ british vaccine whilst having NOTHING as a feasible, widely available plan B.
The problem isn't even astrazeneca as the delivered doses are still few compared to other vaccines. They fucked up in the contract negotiation phase because it was incredibly drawn out and seemed to focus on getting the best price rather than just getting the vaccines. As a result deliveries have been few and slow to start up. We've only vaccinated 10%, we don't have some 30% population worth of vaccines lying in a freezer because nobody takes them. We don't have the vaccines.

I also never defended macron, rather the people in the robert koch institute.
uziq
Member
+492|3452
plenty of AZ vaccines went to waste in the last few months. there have been numerous stories of them piled up in fridges, not being used, because distrust was so high in germany, france and places like belgium.

'AstraZeneca’s Vaccines Go Unused in EU as Mutants Spread'

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … in-germany

Just weeks ago, the European Union was clamoring for AstraZeneca Plc’s Covid-19 vaccine. Now, fewer than one-tenth of the doses delivered to Germany have been administered in the initial days of the roll-out, and some health-care workers say they’re concerned about side effects.
fewer than one-tenth of the delivered doses used ... are you fucking kidding? what an utter travesty. please don't conveniently smudge the facts, here.

'Europe's AstraZeneca stockpile mounts as citizens snub jab'.

https://www.ft.com/content/767fdd85-532 … c85d28b492

https://www.euractiv.com/section/corona … e-germany/

but OK.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-31 01:45:45)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

are you trying to make a point to me that dominic cummings was bad for government? wow a great point, surely.

where your intelligent god-brained analysis goes wrong is in thinking dom cummings is the perfect representative of a 'humanities graduate'. off dilbert goes, down the rabbithole of his own insipid monomanias again. dom cummings is an idiot to any right-thinking person, regardless of educational background.
But he's got like a first from Oxksferd.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3452

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

are you trying to make a point to me that dominic cummings was bad for government? wow a great point, surely.

where your intelligent god-brained analysis goes wrong is in thinking dom cummings is the perfect representative of a 'humanities graduate'. off dilbert goes, down the rabbithole of his own insipid monomanias again. dom cummings is an idiot to any right-thinking person, regardless of educational background.
But he's got like a first from Oxksferd.
so? kissinger was feted by the world's institutions as well and he was a pernicious little fuck-up with some bad ideas.

cummings' influence is as much about social and institutional factors as the degree he attained when he was 21 years old. get a fucking grip, grow up, and move on to a new fixation. you reason like a child.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX
Well Kissinger was a hero in his own head and a great self-publicist, plus an Israeli fifth columnist.

I'm starting to come to the conclusion these top flight academics are over-rated.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3452
a highly intelligent, nuanced view. i'm sure none of your political heroes ever had a good education. all self-taught, oil-splattered engineers who can assemble a tranny in a fix.
Larssen
Member
+99|1887

uziq wrote:

plenty of AZ vaccines went to waste in the last few months. there have been numerous stories of them piled up in fridges, not being used, because distrust was so high in germany, france and places like belgium.

'AstraZeneca’s Vaccines Go Unused in EU as Mutants Spread'

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … in-germany

Just weeks ago, the European Union was clamoring for AstraZeneca Plc’s Covid-19 vaccine. Now, fewer than one-tenth of the doses delivered to Germany have been administered in the initial days of the roll-out, and some health-care workers say they’re concerned about side effects.
fewer than one-tenth of the delivered doses used ... are you fucking kidding? what an utter travesty. please don't conveniently smudge the facts, here.

'Europe's AstraZeneca stockpile mounts as citizens snub jab'.

https://www.ft.com/content/767fdd85-532 … c85d28b492

https://www.euractiv.com/section/corona … e-germany/

but OK.
The picture isn't nearly as dramatic as you make it seem.

https://qap.ecdc.europa.eu/public/exten … bution-tab

If you select astrazeneca you can see that while uptake could be better, it's not entirely unused. In germany for example 3,8m doses have been delivered and 2,6 administered. In total almost 16m vaccines have been delivered and almost 13m administered. The reason vaccination is so slow isn't because of lacking astrazeneca uptake, it's that there are entirely too few doses to begin with - of any type.
uziq
Member
+492|3452
3.8 million doses delivered and 2.6 administered? you call that efficient or effective?

the EU's whole justification is that it is meant to be a higher form of governance, that it can use its collective ability to solve political situations better and easier. and yet it has managed to sow doubt and confusion and retard its own vaccination efforts. even better, skepticism from one country's medical institution spread virally to default suspensions in neighbouring and smaller vassal states. amazing. the blind leading the blind to shoot one another in the foot.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX
Also robbed Australia of 250,000 doses - which it doesn't seem to need very urgently.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX
The biggest mistake of all was forming an EU parliament. It should have been a council of foreign ministers or ambassadors.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Larssen
Member
+99|1887
There is a council of foreign ministers and a council of ambassadors, and a parliament and a commission.

Ironically it's often the country representation that causes everything to be extremely slow and sluggish, because any proposal or progress on certain policies must be checked for approval by 27 different national policy directorates, who then pass on verdict to a diplomat seated in a working group in the EU. It's policy-through-consensus.

@uziq I don't think there's anyone who has worked with or in the EU that will pretend the union makes things much easier (depends on the topic kinda, but unanimous consensus will be that decision making is cumbersome and bureaucratic).

Have you seen me utter the word efficient somewhere? No. We have too few vaccines. Of all kinds. Full stop.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-03-31 04:21:11)

uziq
Member
+492|3452
and yet you're only administering 70% of the vaccines you do possess – wasting 30% altogether.

incredible organization!

remember how shocked everyone was at the stories of american vaccine batches being spoiled or sabotaged by anti-vaxxers? lone instances of 100s or 1000s of doses being spoiled by paranoiac nurses or crazy delivery guys.

and yet the officials in charge of europe's efforts have managed to confuse the population enough to bin a third of all vaccines. truly amazing.
Larssen
Member
+99|1887
The fact that they're not yet administered doesn't mean they're waste? As long as they're properly stored most will last several months.
uziq
Member
+492|3452
traditional vaccines can be stored 6 months max. the earlier they are administered, the better. you’re not stockpiling gold bullion. they have an organic shelf life.

and, er, that aside, don’t you think the fact that europe is experiencing a major third wave at present adds a little bit of necessity to the situation? ‘oh, no worries to the old people dying: we’ve got until august to use these 1 million shots!’

it’s completely fucking execrable. your attitude towards the saintly ursula is a little bit like the creepy admiration young men had for thatcher.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-31 05:44:43)

Larssen
Member
+99|1887
lol you're really reaching now. I couldn't be less enthusiastic about von der leyen.

Yes, vaccination speed is an issue and it looks like most countries are hoping spring weather and the vaccination of elderly will be enough to hold off pressure on hospitals. I hope they're right - while cases are increasing the speed of increase seems to be slowing down and # of deaths and hospitalisations are still on a downward trajectory.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6771|PNW

Not a Good Thing, but at the rate Washington's going I might be the last one on this forum vaccinated. The rollout here has been slow and complicated over the past couple months, even for the people who were immediately eligible.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6105|eXtreme to the maX
I think I'll be done in 3-6 months.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3452

Larssen wrote:

lol you're really reaching now. I couldn't be less enthusiastic about von der leyen.

Yes, vaccination speed is an issue and it looks like most countries are hoping spring weather and the vaccination of elderly will be enough to hold off pressure on hospitals. I hope they're right - while cases are increasing the speed of increase seems to be slowing down and # of deaths and hospitalisations are still on a downward trajectory.
"cases are increasing."
"hospitalisations are still on a downward trajectory."

pick one. hospitalisations will uptick in 2-3 weeks. have you not figured out basic epidemiology in 14 months?

i don't think having vaccinated 10% of the most vulnerable is going to be a buffer considering the rates of hospitalisation in age brackets 50+.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-31 06:25:07)

Larssen
Member
+99|1887
Thank you for your expert contribution. We should all go back into lockdown. I'll inform the ministers on your point of view
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3719
We should stay in lockdown until at least September.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3452

Larssen wrote:

Thank you for your expert contribution. We should all go back into lockdown. I'll inform the ministers on your point of view
german ministers are urging new curbs immediately to avoid a third wave. are you even reading the news, dipshit?

Germany must bring down coronavirus infections in the next few weeks or risk new virus mutations that are resistant to vaccines, and should impose night-time curfews in regions with high caseloads, said a top aide to Chancellor Angela Merkel according to Reuters.

“We are in the most dangerous phase of the pandemic,” Merkel’s chief of staff Helge Braun told the Bild am Sonntag newspaper. “The next few weeks will determine whether we can foreseeably get the pandemic under control.”

If the number of infections rises rapidly again there is a growing danger that the next virus mutation will become resistant to the vaccine, Braun said.

“Then we would need new vaccines, then we would have to start vaccinating all over again,” he added.

After a popular backlash and legal hurdles, Merkel was forced to ditch plans for an extended Easter holiday intended to try to break a third wave, but Braun said it remained imperative to reduce the number of infections.

In regions where the number of cases per 100,000 people in the last seven days is more than 100, he spoke out in favour of additional curbs. “That’s where regional curfews in the evening and at night can help, because we have the highest infection rates at meetings in people’s homes,” he said.

Coronavirus infections have risen sharply in Germany in recent weeks, driven by a more transmissible variant of the virus and moves to ease some restrictions.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExT9945WYAQ0OEc?format=png&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExT-YNJXIAABSoO?format=jpg&name=medium

amazing how suddenly you can't read a graph or table when it involves criticizing your beloved EU.

Last edited by uziq (2021-03-31 10:12:15)

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