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13rin
Member
+977|4991

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

i would like the laws to address the ability for criminals to procure guns - namely through straw purchases and stealing them from people who own guns.  I think the law should require that you store your guns behind lock and key when you are not home
I made a fast and furious post somewhere.

There are laws like that on the books.  Hell though man... It's my goddamn house and it is usually locked when I'm gone.  Satisfied?

I have a good gun safe.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|5287|Moscow, Russia

Jay wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

This has actually gotten me thinking how funny it would be to watch a bunch of libertards with AR15s try to take down an Apache gunship.

I'd watch that movie, it'd be sweet.
Hey, you know what? In the 1:1,000,000 chance that someone did try to set up a dictatorship in their lifetime, they would at least fight.
they would? you are so naive it's not even funny.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5186|Canberra, AUS
i think it's much more likely that any dictatorship would try to get said people onside first.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|3985|Ventura, California
At this point I think everybody agrees that gun laws won't get guns out of the hands of the bad guys. Guns are a great equalizer for people who aren't able to defend themselves otherwise and so I think they should be unrestricted so anybody can get any kind they want. Anybody that wants to go on a massive killing spree can do so even with regulations so I don't see why we should limit the honest people who have a passion for shooting things that aren't human.

There was a story the other day in the paper about a 14 year old that shot and killed an intruder while defending his 3 little siblings upstairs. Shit like that is why we need to arm the just. What could have happened to the kid and his 3 brothers and sisters warrants his possession of a firearm. What was he going to do, call the cops?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5186|Canberra, AUS
hahahahahahaha
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
13rin
Member
+977|4991

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

So who here is part of a well regulated militia?
who cares?  2nd amendment is there and it's not going away, regardless of intent of the founding fathers in creating it.  Get your stupid red herrings out of here
*sigh

ROGUEDD wrote:

13rin wrote:

ROGUEDD wrote:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/250.02 Technically already part of a militia.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.

Is this the part you were referencing? Yea... I guess that if DSL live in FL would include him too.  hahaha.
(1) & (3).
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
13rin
Member
+977|4991

Shahter wrote:

Jay wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

This has actually gotten me thinking how funny it would be to watch a bunch of libertards with AR15s try to take down an Apache gunship.

I'd watch that movie, it'd be sweet.
Hey, you know what? In the 1:1,000,000 chance that someone did try to set up a dictatorship in their lifetime, they would at least fight.
they would? you are so naive it's not even funny.
Yea, because revolution never happens and governments never become unstable.  Never in a million... Wait, where do you live again? Oh.....
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|5287|Moscow, Russia

13rin wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Jay wrote:

Hey, you know what? In the 1:1,000,000 chance that someone did try to set up a dictatorship in their lifetime, they would at least fight.
they would? you are so naive it's not even funny.
Yea, because revolution never happens and governments never become unstable.  Never in a million... Wait, where do you live again? Oh.....
revolutions happen. and governments do get unstable. once in a million, as you mentioned. and just in case that happens every shitfie and war man needs to be armed. k.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
13rin
Member
+977|4991
Shit happens more often than that.  Civil Wars occured (just skimming), from 1945 to 1990 averaged 20 a year..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_war# … since_1945

&



For inevitable upcoming "comma" argument.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+282|5287|Moscow, Russia
yeah, yeah, heard that shit. doesn't address the fact that shifties and war mans 1) won't know a "tyrant" from a tree in their back yard 2) won't do squat with revolvers and shotguns against machine gunners and attack helicopters.

i can understand home defense argument - that's totally reasonable. but everything else, most notably "just uprising against tyranny", is total bullshit.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|5286|Noizyland

-Sh1fty- wrote:

At this point I think everybody agrees that gun laws won't get guns out of the hands of the bad guys. Guns are a great equalizer for people who aren't able to defend themselves otherwise and so I think they should be unrestricted so anybody can get any kind they want. Anybody that wants to go on a massive killing spree can do so even with regulations so I don't see why we should limit the honest people who have a passion for shooting things that aren't human.

There was a story the other day in the paper about a 14 year old that shot and killed an intruder while defending his 3 little siblings upstairs. Shit like that is why we need to arm the just. What could have happened to the kid and his 3 brothers and sisters warrants his possession of a firearm. What was he going to do, call the cops?
Yes I remember a similar story not too long ago of a woman who was barricaded herself in her bedroom and had a shotgun. She was on the phone to the police as the bad guy was breaking in and asked if she should shoot him. The police officer said she should do whatever she felt had to do. So she filled the bastard's chest with buckshot. A good example of why firearm ownership is a good thing. Search for "person shoots intruder' and I'm sure there's a large number of stories to back this up.

But I could quote countless other instances where some kid found his dad's gun and blew his head or his sibling's head off. Of a friend's head off. Or a parent's head off. There was the shooting of six year old Kayla Rolland by another six year old who found his uncle's handgun. There was that 16 year old Halo addict who fatally shot his mother and shot his father in the head over a Halo game. There was the 14 year old who shot and killed both his parents because he didn't want to do chores. There was a 12 year old Colorado kid who killed his parents and shot his siblings. There was a kid who found a gun in his police officer father's car and killed his seven year old sister. An 11 year old boy who shot and killed his father's pregnant girlfriend. A nine year old autistic girl who fatally shot her brother. A ten year old kid who accidentally killed his five year old brother after finding a gun.

I could go on and on. Some of these stories are down to unhinged people like the Halo one. So many others are kids coming across guns and accidentally shooting someone or themselves or otherwise having no idea about the ramifications of shooting someone, no idea about the finality of death even.

I could suggest a number of small things that I think would help the US with it's shootings. These measures would leave firearms accessible to anyone who wants them. I know the arguments against them but I think it's a matter of weighing the positives against the negatives. If the US really wants to lower the amount of accidental shootings or even shootings in general there are going to have to be sacrifices though.

For example, I would suggest instead of allowing everyone to keep an immediately fireable weapon around the house, require proper storage in a lockable rack or cabinet. Require ammunition to be stored separately and don't allow people to leave a weapon loaded. The trade off is that you won't have an immediately usable weapon. The plus is that you have now near completely negated the possibility that a young person will find and accidentally, (or purposefully,) use your weapon. You have also make it less likely that a bad person will steal your firearm which is a major problem in the US and one of the ways in which a great many offenders get their weapons. Personally I think the trade off is worth it though I imagine it is a matter of opinion.

I think overall there's an unhealthy attitude towards firearms in the US that probably isn't going to be changed through legislation if it can be changed at all. There are attitudes that no amount of argument will alter in the slightest.

I don't think the answer is to arm everyone though. More guns equals more gun deaths, it has always been as simple as that.

As a side note, can anyone explain to me why firearms should be a right rather than a privilege? And not in a historical concept I get why the Second Amendment was written, I just don't understand the need to have such a right.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,970|3869|London, England

Shahter wrote:

Jay wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

This has actually gotten me thinking how funny it would be to watch a bunch of libertards with AR15s try to take down an Apache gunship.

I'd watch that movie, it'd be sweet.
Hey, you know what? In the 1:1,000,000 chance that someone did try to set up a dictatorship in their lifetime, they would at least fight.
they would? you are so naive it's not even funny.
Not naive, I'm well aware that 99% of them would shit their pants and stay home. It takes a lot of brainwashing for the military to get people to stand in combat instead of running. Untrained civilians wouldn't do very much. But, the same was said of Afghani civilians and they've kicked both of our military's asses.

Either way, some would try, and maybe that's enough.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|4511|...
I'm getting the idea that nobody actually bothered to read the orwell text I posted on the first page.

Anyway,

Ty wrote:

I could go on and on. Some of these stories are down to unhinged people like the Halo one. So many others are kids coming across guns and accidentally shooting someone or themselves or otherwise having no idea about the ramifications of shooting someone, no idea about the finality of death even.
Oh but that doesn't matter because statistically it's only less than 1% of the population that gets shot.
inane little opines
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,970|3869|London, England

Shocking wrote:

I'm getting the idea that nobody actually bothered to read the orwell text I posted on the first page.

Anyway,

Ty wrote:

I could go on and on. Some of these stories are down to unhinged people like the Halo one. So many others are kids coming across guns and accidentally shooting someone or themselves or otherwise having no idea about the ramifications of shooting someone, no idea about the finality of death even.
Oh but that doesn't matter because statistically it's only less than 1% of the population that gets shot.
It's really not the issue all the non-Americans make it out to be. Shootings are still rare and noteworthy enough that they make the front page (unless they are gang members fucking eachbother up, then no one cares)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|3770|foggy bottom
pogs in this thread
Tu Stultus Es
Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|4097

Wasn't there some attempted coup in Russia in the early 90's where civilians protested/rioted/etc. and the military refused to fire on the civilians?

I just think the attack chopper scenario makes a lot of assumptions as to how the military/citizens would react. I have this strange feeling people in the military are not robots.

Last edited by Macbeth (2012-07-13 07:57:14)

Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|4097

Shocking wrote:

I'm getting the idea that nobody actually bothered to read the orwell text I posted on the first page.
Quoting Orwell is the most pretentious thing you can do in any political discussion. It also brings into question how educated you are.
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|4511|Vortex Ring State

Macbeth wrote:

Wasn't there some attempted coup in Russia in the early 90's where civilians protested/rioted/etc. and the military refused to fire on the civilians?

I just think the attack chopper scenario makes a lot of assumptions as to how the military/citizens would react. I have this strange feeling people in the military are not robots.
didn't you read ATG's stories?

it's obvious, we send our troops to europe to oppress their citizens, China sends their troops here to oppress our citizens, Europe sends their troops to China to oppress their citizens
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|3770|foggy bottom
I guess you guys dont think people in the military would love a chance to open fire on a crowd of anti government hippies.
Tu Stultus Es
Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|4097

ATG is cool and all but there is at least 10,000 things I would rather do than read Internet short fiction.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|4511|...

Macbeth wrote:

Quoting Orwell is the most pretentious thing you can do in any political discussion.
It was relevant to the discussion you twit. Why does it matter whether or not Orwell wrote it? If it makes sense, it makes sense. I'd be more worried about your perception of his work as being for pretentious people really. I was hoping that by naming him in a post people would bother to read it before they'd continue on about the purpose of gun laws but oh well I guess all he ever wrote has been doomed to Macbeth's list of pretentious things. So much for that.

Macbeth wrote:

It also brings into question how educated you are.
This is probably one of the dumbest things you've ever said.
inane little opines
13rin
Member
+977|4991

13urnzz wrote:

let's have a show of hands -
  who here honestly believed obama was coming for your guns? three and a half years ago, i couldn't find 9mm or .357 ammo. now sportsman's warehouse is spamming my inbox with all the sales they're having. the last three Crossroads of the West gun shows have featured more, and a bigger variety, of guns and rifles than the previous eight. it's like someone was orchestrating the hoopla and hype during the last election, and now that we're having another election, i haven't had a single problem buying or selling a rifle, handgun, or ammo.
*Raises hand*
Sorry B, going to have to disagree. 

Ammo is still a pain to get & the cost of it has doubled.

UN small arms treaty.  Fast & furious.  Etc...
Just with the statement of bring back that clinton 'assault weapon' ban illustrates his lack of knowledge in the area and adversarial opinion toward firearms.  Remember, he's a windy city guy and look how well that ban has gone.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,389|4097

People who quote Orwell are usually the type of people who only read 1984 and Animal farm and think that makes them political experts. They are the kind of people who buy into conspiracy theories and think the government is or is about to trounce on their rights every second of the day. They also will endlessly bitch about republicans. Orwell only seems deep until you start reading real modern political science books and take some classes on the subject. After that you realize he hasn't been relevant since the 50's.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|5012|so randum
americans think we cant have guns but we can lollolo9lollol xD

thats my contribution ok beer time FRIDAY WOOPW WOOPWOOWPPWOWWOP
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,808|5143|949

13rin wrote:

13urnzz wrote:

let's have a show of hands -
  who here honestly believed obama was coming for your guns? three and a half years ago, i couldn't find 9mm or .357 ammo. now sportsman's warehouse is spamming my inbox with all the sales they're having. the last three Crossroads of the West gun shows have featured more, and a bigger variety, of guns and rifles than the previous eight. it's like someone was orchestrating the hoopla and hype during the last election, and now that we're having another election, i haven't had a single problem buying or selling a rifle, handgun, or ammo.
*Raises hand*
Sorry B, going to have to disagree. 

Ammo is still a pain to get & the cost of it has doubled.

UN small arms treaty.  Fast & furious.  Etc...
Just with the statement of bring back that clinton 'assault weapon' ban illustrates his lack of knowledge in the area and adversarial opinion toward firearms.  Remember, he's a windy city guy and look how well that ban has gone.
UN small arms treaty uproar is retarded.  Weren't you a political science major?  Didn't you learn that the only way any rights given to US citizens through an amendment could be taken away is by repealing that amendment by passing a new one?

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