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Topic closed

2012-04-09 08:38:05
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690
the belittling was ironic. the stereotypes are facile. they serve only to try and distinguish one college-level group from another college-level group. like some puerile and infantile way of defining one's own group or sub-set. elevating yourself above the others. liberal arts educations teach empathy, understanding, acceptance of other beliefs and positions. i have no problems with science/maths grads. i have a problem with science/maths funding being cut. i have a problem with arts/humanities being cut, too. i don't discriminate in my belief and high valuing of education - i don't care if it's maths, science, art or humanities. although i course i will defend my position and 'merit' as an arts/humanities scholar if it comes under question by the maths/science types. and of course i'm not going to deny noticing that it's the maths/science types who normally make these idiotic attacks.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 08:38:38
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
Except I don't have a persona. I've been consistent from day one here.

The correct answer is that you know nothing about me except what you see superficially. You assume I fit into one of your predefined stereotypes and leave it there. Then you attempt to attack me and my 'beliefs' from that position. Round hole, square peg. Do yourself a favor and go back to EE. These arguments have been going on for years now and you don't know anything about the players involved.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 08:40:55
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Uzique wrote:

the belittling was ironic. the stereotypes are facile. they serve only to try and distinguish one college-level group from another college-level group. like some puerile and infantile way of defining one's own group or sub-set. elevating yourself above the others. liberal arts educations teach empathy, understanding, acceptance of other beliefs and positions. i have no problems with science/maths grads. i have a problem with science/maths funding being cut. i have a problem with arts/humanities being cut, too. i don't discriminate in my belief and high valuing of education - i don't care if it's maths, science, art or humanities. although i course i will defend my position and 'merit' as an arts/humanities scholar if it comes under question by the maths/science types. and of course i'm not going to deny noticing that it's the maths/science types who normally make these idiotic attacks.
What should be cut instead of academia? You never answered that question. Your country is broke.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 08:41:51
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690

Shocking wrote:

I dropped chemical engineering to pursue a MA in conflict studies.
and i bet in your country and education system, this pursuit was easily facilitated, right? i.e. not limited drastically by your financial background or social status. because in the us and uk trying to better yourself in further education (especially postgraduate) is an hellaciously expensive and difficult thing to do. it's not high on our government's priority list. in europe pursuing postgraduate study is inexpensive and openly encouraged, if you should so wish. you have it much, much better.

jay, your persona is consistent? are you kidding? the guy that registered with a name taken from a shitty rand book, who now says rand is bullshit... is consistent from day one? methinks the gent doth protest too much.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-09 08:44:12)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 08:43:31
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

the belittling was ironic. the stereotypes are facile. they serve only to try and distinguish one college-level group from another college-level group. like some puerile and infantile way of defining one's own group or sub-set. elevating yourself above the others. liberal arts educations teach empathy, understanding, acceptance of other beliefs and positions. i have no problems with science/maths grads. i have a problem with science/maths funding being cut. i have a problem with arts/humanities being cut, too. i don't discriminate in my belief and high valuing of education - i don't care if it's maths, science, art or humanities. although i course i will defend my position and 'merit' as an arts/humanities scholar if it comes under question by the maths/science types. and of course i'm not going to deny noticing that it's the maths/science types who normally make these idiotic attacks.
What should be cut instead of academia? You never answered that question. Your country is broke.
i would happily see the military cut rather than the education of our young people. if our country is broke, it also means our country is no longer a military superpower who should police the world-stage, right? so it makes sense to stop spending billions of £'s a year on trying to stretch ourselves to world-police status, when we can't even spare a few million for a top university to take on 10+ PhD students. makes sense to me.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 08:45:38
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
I bet your government feels that they get a better return on investment from the military expenditures than they would by funding 10 PhD's, especially considering defense is like, the governments primary purpose for existence and everything...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 08:46:56
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690
discussing the 'return of investment' on education is like performing a cost-benefit analysis on a church festival.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 08:47:01
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5763|Toronto

Jay wrote:

Except I don't have a persona. I've been consistent from day one here.

The correct answer is that you know nothing about me except what you see superficially. You assume I fit into one of your predefined stereotypes and leave it there. Then you attempt to attack me and my 'beliefs' from that position. Round hole, square peg. Do yourself a favor and go back to EE. These arguments have been going on for years now and you don't know anything about the players involved.
No Jay, that's just the answer you were expecting and have a cookie-cutter response to.

I don't lump you into any category. In fact, I see you as deeply confused and thus difficult to place in any one category. I attack your beliefs based on their own merits, not the larger schema to which they belong. And what are you, 12? "you can't define me!" Grow up before you get married, please.

And you believe having the same arguments with the same people is acceptable? No new-blood in DST? Why do you assume I have to know anything about the 'players' (actors is the correct term) involved to make a reasoned response?

Jay...just...no.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2012-04-09 08:49:11
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Uzique wrote:

discussing the 'return of investment' on education is like performing a cost-benefit analysis on a church festival.
Except that it's the argument you've been making from the start. Rah rah social mobility that's the benefit, no? A million dollars to fund 10 PhD's, or provide a salary for 30 soldiers. One benefits the few, the other benefits the many.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 08:52:52
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6219|...

Uzique wrote:

Shocking wrote:

I dropped chemical engineering to pursue a MA in conflict studies.
and i bet in your country and education system, this pursuit was easily facilitated, right? i.e. not limited drastically by your financial background or social status. because in the us and uk trying to better yourself in further education (especially postgraduate) is an hellaciously expensive and difficult thing to do. it's not high on our government's priority list. in europe pursuing postgraduate study is inexpensive and openly encouraged, if you should so wish. you have it much, much better.
Tuition cost is about 1600 euros/year so it was relatively easy yeah. If you're a student public transport is 'free' on weekdays and you're given about 250 euros/month by the gov. as a loan (which turns into a grant if you complete your BA within 4 years). Additionally you can loan up to 800 euros/month from the gov on a 1% interest rate, to be paid back in full within 15-20 years, there's some leniency in that as well.

Recently the gov. has been making changes to the system, making it more expensive (budget constraints). It's still very cheap in comparison to other countries though.

Last edited by Shocking (2012-04-09 08:55:07)

inane little opines
2012-04-09 08:56:47
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

discussing the 'return of investment' on education is like performing a cost-benefit analysis on a church festival.
Except that it's the argument you've been making from the start. Rah rah social mobility that's the benefit, no? A million dollars to fund 10 PhD's, or provide a salary for 30 soldiers. One benefits the few, the other benefits the many.
social mobility for undergraduate and graduate degrees is a proven vitally important aspect. it's generally accepted that letting someone from a disadvantaged background have access to an expensive education for a bachelor's will improve their lives and aid their social mobility. for PhD and high-level research, the benefits are of course more intangible. it's more to do then with 'furthering knowledge' and general high-minded things like this. of course it's all so specialised and so esoteric that you cannot pin it down to 'xyz' benefit. it's like dilbert, again, looking for a 'breakthrough' in arts/humanities research. lets just say that the benefits of high-level research are in advancing and refining a nation's intellectual pedigree. it's a high-minded goal of every advanced and civilized country: to have an academy and to try and further that nation/people's knowledge. to try and evaluate that with mechanical economic formulae is a little misguided and rudimentary. i'd argue that the intangible benefits of having a world-renowned academy far outweighs the intangible benefits of having a military complex that bombs desert shitholes into smoking craters.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 08:59:42
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
Except you're treating all degrees equally. If your goal is social mobility you'd be advocating scholarships for those that go into degree fields that lead to higher average pay: math and science. Except you're not, so you're just using it as a hot button buzzword. Why do you think none of us are taking you seriously?

You're essentially arguing that people should be allowed to live on a higher level of dole simply because they prefer reading books rather than watching tv and fucking.

Last edited by Jay (2012-04-09 09:00:40)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 09:03:01
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690
social mobility to me means someone accessing a level of education and a welfare of life they did not previously have, i.e. moving from unskilled working class to educated middle-class. of any background or any field. i don't equate class with earnings. that's a very crude and classless american way of considering class. over here your class is more to do with your background, your education, your mannerisms and your taste, e.g. social aspects. in america if you are figuring out someone's class by the car they drive and how much money they have, then you're doing it very wrong. well, you're doing it in a very american way. money is not the object of class here, nor is it the ultimate goal of social mobility. nor should it really be the aim of higher-education.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 09:05:02
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
Yeah, ok. Poor with an arts degree hanging on the wall is still poor.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 09:05:48
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690
and yeah totally, studying literature is basically an excuse on par with watching tv all day and fucking
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 09:06:53
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
It's is entertainment, yes.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 09:08:51
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690

Jay wrote:

Yeah, ok. Poor with an arts degree hanging on the wall is still poor.
most of the british upper-class have less material wealth and far less disposable income than petit-bourgeoisie industrialists and retailers and traders. they still go to much more prestigious and privileged schools, still have far better manners and are still considered way more refined people. why? having money just makes you nouveau riche, it doesn't make you cultured or classy. over here in britain we judge someone's class on their overall social aspect and character, not how much money they can pull out of a wallet. so yeah, sure, arts degree and poor can still be more classy than someone with all the money in the world and no accounting for taste or manner. i really don't have a problem with that. you know, compared to the material wealth of our most upper-class people, descended from gentry and nobility, we have gypsies that are richer here. many gypsies over here - cause they don't pay tax and get their wealth questionably - drive top-range range rovers and have £100,000's of pounds in dowry money being exchanged for family weddings. gypsies. the lowest social caste imaginable in all european countries. our upper-class people can be exceptionally poor.

just something to think about. i'm sure you americans have it right, though.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 09:09:22
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690

Jay wrote:

It's is entertainment, yes.
wanna come back to this discussion tomorrow when you've had a little rest and are prepared to put some thought and effort into your posts?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 09:13:11
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Yeah, ok. Poor with an arts degree hanging on the wall is still poor.
most of the british upper-class have less material wealth and far less disposable income than petit-bourgeoisie industrialists and retailers and traders. they still go to much more prestigious and privileged schools, still have far better manners and are still considered way more refined people. why? having money just makes you nouveau riche, it doesn't make you cultured or classy. over here in britain we judge someone's class on their overall social aspect and character, not how much money they can pull out of a wallet. so yeah, sure, arts degree and poor can still be more classy than someone with all the money in the world and no accounting for taste or manner. i really don't have a problem with that. you know, compared to the material wealth of our most upper-class people, descended from gentry and nobility, we have gypsies that are richer here. many gypsies over here - cause they don't pay tax and get their wealth questionably - drive top-range range rovers and have £100,000's of pounds in dowry money being exchanged for family weddings. gypsies. the lowest social caste imaginable in all european countries. our upper-class people can be exceptionally poor.

just something to think about. i'm sure you americans have it right, though.
We do. Where we stand in the world is based on our own merits, not some long dead ancestor. I pity you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 09:21:18
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690
again, our class is determined by social aspects - manner and character. ancestors don't really have anything to do with the judgement of an individual. the point was that we put class on education and refinement far more than money. we don't even necessarily associate earning money with 'merit'. in america you have some gauche equation of personal wealth with achievement. like the richest people in your country are the finest individuals. are the classiest. that's just not so over here. the richest people can be the most tasteless. you pity us because we don't judge people's merits on their wealth? well frankly i pity you, living in a country where every poor person is considered - by some cruel twist of exceptionalist logic - to be a wholly unexceptional person. it is clearly a view that has coloured your own perception and attitudes towards life hugely. you have a giant inferiority complex when it comes to people of upper-middle class backgrounds. or anyone or privilege. it's like you feel personally begrudged by all of them. so clearly the american class system based on wealth which hates poor people has done you well.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-09 09:23:20)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 09:26:50
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6952|St. Andrews / Oslo

Jay wrote:

The secret to happiness in life is maximizing free time and balancing that with a job that pays enough that you don't have to worry about money. It really is that simple.
Hahaha, that's hilarious, basing the "secret to happiness" on an economic model. Do you really want to live your life following a labour supply function? lol, enjoy moving along the curves, sounds thrilling.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/6922/loljay1.png

It's not "really that simple", it's that simple because it's a simplified economic fucking model. Happiness =/= leisure time, work =/= unhappiness, happiness =/= not worrying about money.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2012-04-09 09:28:35
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6952|St. Andrews / Oslo

PS- soz got carried away with my arts degree not-even-a-degree-yet putting drawings on top of your secret model to happiness

Last edited by Jenspm (2012-04-09 09:30:32)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2012-04-09 09:29:28
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6690
brb writing 1,500 words on the symbolism of that dude's inverted smile
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2012-04-09 09:31:33
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England
I don't have any inferiority complex uzi, I've been rubbing shoulders with the wealthy since I was 14. Some things I picked up, like the importance of choosing a career which allows you to be able to afford to send your kids to good schools, and other stuff I've mocked. There's nothing sadder than old money types that hold onto past family glory, which is what you seem to be glorifying. Poor people that the wealthier people pity and snigger at behind their backs while they try to maintain the lifestyle of the country club. Whatever.

Besides, who are you trying to impress anyway? Where are you trying to fit in? So much social anxiety you have. Do you really think people will judge you based on the books you've read? If they do, why would you subject yourself to it? You really are a strange duck uzi.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-04-09 09:33:08
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5577|London, England

Jenspm wrote:

Jay wrote:

The secret to happiness in life is maximizing free time and balancing that with a job that pays enough that you don't have to worry about money. It really is that simple.
Hahaha, that's hilarious, basing the "secret to happiness" on an economic model. Do you really want to live your life following a labour supply function? lol, enjoy moving along the curves, sounds thrilling.

http://static.bf2s.com/files/user/6922/loljay1.png


It's not "really that simple", it's that simple because it's a simplified economic fucking model. Happiness =/= leisure time, work =/= unhappiness, happiness =/= not worrying about money.
Says the child that has had nothing but leisure time. Fuck off back to your tax payer funded dolls.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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