Ok, enough typing on my phone.
We're not that far apart, I just absolutely despise paying taxes because I despise politicians and anything that gives them power.
The primary difference is that I believe in individual charity rather than forced charity. You should have the option to pay a little more in health insurance if you want. You should not have the right to force me to adopt your morals.
The primary difference is that I believe in individual charity rather than forced charity. You should have the option to pay a little more in health insurance if you want. You should not have the right to force me to adopt your morals.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I think the individual charity idea is overplayed. I don't think citizens at large want to part with their money. Why isn't individual charity compensating for a lack of healthcare already?
It is. Hospitals are forced to eat 3-5% of the care they give out as losses from non-payment. Why do you think the health care law was pushed? Hospitals are among the biggest campaign contributors. 3-5% is huge in a multi-billion dollar industry.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I think the individual charity idea is overplayed. I don't think citizens at large want to part with their money. Why isn't individual charity compensating for a lack of healthcare already?
Thousands of doctors also work for free (or minimum fees) by working at free health clinics. The health care problem really wasn't much of a problem at all. A very small minority couldn't get health insurance, but they could still see a doctor, even if it meant ending up in bankruptcy court.
Last edited by Jay (2012-03-30 11:04:23)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I bet you don't practice it though.Jay wrote:
The primary difference is that I believe in individual charity rather than forced charity.
Fuck Israel
I sure do. I've worked in soup kitchens and built home with Habitat For Humanity. I donate a few weekends a year to help maintain the girls summer camp my fiancee is on the board of too. When the charity book comes around every spring I add in a few monthly deductions too.Dilbert_X wrote:
I bet you don't practice it though.Jay wrote:
The primary difference is that I believe in individual charity rather than forced charity.
I've noticed that the people that scoff at charity are the ones that never give. Maybe thats why they try to force compulsion.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Well duh.Jay wrote:
I've noticed that the people that scoff at charity are the ones that never give. Maybe thats why they try to force compulsion.
People were forced to pay 'charity' for your workfare, I don't see the problem in compelling citizens to effectively take out basic insurance through the govt to cover serious illness, unemployment etc.
Thats beyond retarded.very small minority couldn't get health insurance, but they could still see a doctor, even if it meant ending up in bankruptcy court.
People I knew at Ford were perpetually shit scared that they, and their family, would lose their healthcare and never be able to recover to the same level if they got fired. Thats not productive.
Fuck Israel
i don't give nearly as much to charity as I should. I used to donate a lot of time. Now it's probably 2 weekends a year for the last two or so
i helped crips around lourdes for weeks so i'm basically in gods good books forever
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
but, did you do anything for the bloods?FatherTed wrote:
i helped crips around
east side or west side or some other poor persons comment goes itp
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Right wingers care more about the economy they live in than the society.
If you care more about what the companies covering extra people are going to feel than the benefits to those who are uninsured or unable to be insured due to pre-existing conditions it's easy to tell which side of politics you're on.
"oh but I'm so charitable!"
Yeah it really shows when you don't think others deserve charity but insurance companies do.
If you care more about what the companies covering extra people are going to feel than the benefits to those who are uninsured or unable to be insured due to pre-existing conditions it's easy to tell which side of politics you're on.
"oh but I'm so charitable!"
Yeah it really shows when you don't think others deserve charity but insurance companies do.
If you had any ability to comprehend what isn't spoonfed to you by huffpo, you'd understand the entire argument is based around NOT wanting to give insurance companies a handout. Obamacare requires everyone in the country to buy insurance from private companies.AussieReaper wrote:
Right wingers care more about the economy they live in than the society.
If you care more about what the companies covering extra people are going to feel than the benefits to those who are uninsured or unable to be insured due to pre-existing conditions it's easy to tell which side of politics you're on.
"oh but I'm so charitable!"
Yeah it really shows when you don't think others deserve charity but insurance companies do.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
No it isn't, the argument is about the evils of socialised healthcare, 'punishing the succesful' to help the less fortunate.
That Obama came up with a stupid solution is his funeral.
That Obama came up with a stupid solution is his funeral.
Fuck Israel
Coming from the same guy who said that Obamas plan makes doctors slaves?Jay wrote:
If you had any ability to comprehend what isn't spoonfed to you by huffpo, you'd understand the entire argument is based around NOT wanting to give insurance companies a handout. Obamacare requires everyone in the country to buy insurance from private companies.AussieReaper wrote:
Right wingers care more about the economy they live in than the society.
If you care more about what the companies covering extra people are going to feel than the benefits to those who are uninsured or unable to be insured due to pre-existing conditions it's easy to tell which side of politics you're on.
"oh but I'm so charitable!"
Yeah it really shows when you don't think others deserve charity but insurance companies do.
Get real. According to you insurance companies are being forced to cover people, and that's not fair. But they're also getting a handout from workplace companies/individuals/taxes and that's not fair. Doctors will become slaves, and that's not fair.
It's as if covering the vulnerable and uninsured is just so evil and socialist you won't even look at a possible benefit.
Healthcare is a service. Not a good. Derp.Jay wrote:
What is greed? I call it wanting stuff that hasn't been earned. I'd call using the political process in order to extract wealth from others exploitation. I'd call forcing people to buy a good from private corporations cronyism and corruption.
what about schedule D that good ole boy W started? it's a good (Rx delivered to the pharm of your choice) and allowed the 'ceuticles to wholesale advertise.AussieReaper wrote:
Healthcare is a service. Not a good. Derp.
imagine this - you*re watching tv, and an advert comes on telling you your legs hurt. they have the answer, march into the Dr.'s office and demand "Pill X" because a 30 second spot magically made you smarter than 8 years of schooling and 20 years of practice. Cure your 'Restless Leg Syndrome' with New and improved Snake Oil!
Brought to you courtesy of the party that invaded Iraq, and endorsed by the party that fights for the blue-collar man.
I thought you were off for the weekend. Why are you still here?Jay wrote:
If you had any ability to comprehend what isn't spoonfed to you by huffpo, you'd understand the entire argument is based around NOT wanting to give insurance companies a handout. Obamacare requires everyone in the country to buy insurance from private companies.AussieReaper wrote:
Right wingers care more about the economy they live in than the society.
If you care more about what the companies covering extra people are going to feel than the benefits to those who are uninsured or unable to be insured due to pre-existing conditions it's easy to tell which side of politics you're on.
"oh but I'm so charitable!"
Yeah it really shows when you don't think others deserve charity but insurance companies do.
He didn't come up with it. As I posted here, it was a plan thought up by a conservative think tank and pushed by republicans in the early 90's.Dilbert_X wrote:
That Obama came up with a stupid solution is his funeral.
In case you live under a rock...
Everyone was expecting it to be thrown out.In a landmark ruling that will impact the November election and the lives of every American, the U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday upheld the controversial health care law championed by President Barack Obama.
The narrow 5-4 ruling was a victory for Obama but also will serve as a rallying issue for Republicans calling for repeal of the Affordable Care Act passed by Democrats in 2010.
...
The most anticipated Supreme Court ruling in years allows the government to continue implementing the health care law, which doesn't take full effect until 2014. That means popular provisions that prohibit insurers from denying coverage for pre-existing medical conditions and allow parents to keep their children on family policies to the age of 26 will continue.
...
In the ruling, the high court decided the most controversial provision -- the individual mandate requiring people to have health insurance -- is valid as a tax, even though it is impermissible under the Constitution's commerce clause.
"In this case, however, it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but choose to go without health insurance," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in the majority opinion. "Such legislation is within Congress's power to tax."
...
Roberts joined the high court's liberal wing -- Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan -- in upholding the law. Four conservative justices -- Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas -- dissented.
So wait, they just need to rename the individual mandate as a "Healthcare Tax" and it's all good?
so what about those ads talking about obama cutting middle class taxes
how much more tax do i have to pay. I still can't make sense of this law
You either have to be dirt poor where you get more money back than you earned, or so filthy rich that you can live on non-taxable income.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
how much more tax do i have to pay. I still can't make sense of this law
Or you can just ignore it. If you jigger your dependents so that you receive no money back from the government at the end of the year you don't have to pay the penalty, just ignore it. The law has no way for the IRS to force you to pay the penalty except by snatching it out of your refund. So avoid the refund every year, decline insurance until you get sick, grab a plan, and save yourself tens of thousands of dollars. Gotta love terribly thought out legislation.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
no but i want to see actual impact, not general nonsense. Can anyone tell me financial impact? I've tried reading this law 3 or 4 times and I just can't make sense of it.