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Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4481

Jaekus wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

I posted that from my phone. I had no idea it was that huge. My bad.

It more or less shows how the current tech trend (which includes facebook) mimics the one that blew up in the early 00's. On the section Internet hotties it shows you some ridiculous numbers regarding some companies including Facebook. For instance Facebook when it was valued at $75 billion gave it the market cap of Goldman Saches. Facebook value was set at more than 37 times the amount of revenue they had. It also shows some other ridiculous values set for other internet companies like Twitter which is set at 55 times it's revenue.

tl;dr Values are seriously inflated.
So essentially Facebook should really be evaluated at a touch under $2 billion, based on their revenue?
No. A few times their revenue. How ever much idk. Definitely less then 37 times though.
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|5562

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

They've been shady as shit about the whole business. They let certain companies buy stock before the IPO so they can cash in and make billions. Rich get richer, fuck Zuckerberg.
I thought you liked free market capitalism and rich people getting richer.

What exactly is wrong here, that doesn't fit with libertarian free market theory?
That's not the point.  I've gotten pre-IPO shares.  Close friends/family, business partners, and venture capitalists get pre-IPO shares, many at the much more valued preferred stock classes.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,730|5001|eXtreme to the maX

Ilocano wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

They've been shady as shit about the whole business. They let certain companies buy stock before the IPO so they can cash in and make billions. Rich get richer, fuck Zuckerberg.
I thought you liked free market capitalism and rich people getting richer.

What exactly is wrong here, that doesn't fit with libertarian free market theory?
That's not the point.  I've gotten pre-IPO shares.  Close friends/family, business partners, and venture capitalists get pre-IPO shares, many at the much more valued preferred stock classes.
So what?
Its his private company, Zuckerberg can sell shares as he likes.

Happens in every IPO, it means the underwriters have an incentive to maximise the IPO share price.
Its basically a massive fraud but thats capitalism and IPOs for you.
#FreeBritney
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4073|Sydney

Macbeth wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

I posted that from my phone. I had no idea it was that huge. My bad.

It more or less shows how the current tech trend (which includes facebook) mimics the one that blew up in the early 00's. On the section Internet hotties it shows you some ridiculous numbers regarding some companies including Facebook. For instance Facebook when it was valued at $75 billion gave it the market cap of Goldman Saches. Facebook value was set at more than 37 times the amount of revenue they had. It also shows some other ridiculous values set for other internet companies like Twitter which is set at 55 times it's revenue.

tl;dr Values are seriously inflated.
So essentially Facebook should really be evaluated at a touch under $2 billion, based on their revenue?
No. A few times their revenue. How ever much idk. Definitely less then 37 times though.
If Facebook is evaluated to be worth $75 billion that means each user is worth approx ~$100. Don't know about you guys but I've never bought anything through Facebook, and no one I personally know has either to my knowledge. So is this the "bubble" that we speak of?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,906|5527|949

Unless the underwriters want to massively undervalue the price to give their cronies chances to take advantage of an undervalued IPO. Then they are screwing the company making the offering.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,906|5527|949

Jaekus wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

So essentially Facebook should really be evaluated at a touch under $2 billion, based on their revenue?
No. A few times their revenue. How ever much idk. Definitely less then 37 times though.
If Facebook is evaluated to be worth $75 billion that means each user is worth approx ~$100. Don't know about you guys but I've never bought anything through Facebook, and no one I personally know has either to my knowledge. So is this the "bubble" that we speak of?
If you look at their profit, you can see that each user is currently worth ~$1.25. Usually companies are bought and sold based on a few years worth of profit, so a valuation of say $5 or even $10/user would be right around the right price, which would put the valuation at around $4b to $8b. As you mentioned, the current valuation is around $100/user, which either means they are way overvalued or the people setting the valuation are predicting the profit/user will aggressively grow over the next few years.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4253|London, England
Usually it's around five years of profit plus assets (which in FB's case is servers whose value depreciate at the speed of light ). Anything beyond five years is considered a wild guess. So yeah, it's massively, massively overvalued.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,906|5527|949

But when you are discussing stocks, the actual profit is one of many factors. One of the reasons I loathe the stock market is the stock price is not directly tied to profit/revenue. A major factor is the demand of the stock price itself. A good example is when you do the stock market exercise in school. People tend to pick stocks like coca cola, playboy, etc.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4253|London, England
The baseline generally reflects profitability in a normal market though. Stocks like coca cola are picked because they offer a sense of safety. You generally know what numbers they will put up every year. Stable stocks like that also generally reflect their actual price more, as the gamblers that drive stock fluctuations don't have anything to gain by touching them. 'Real money' is made on the unstable fringes.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4253|London, England
FWIW, I bought Coca Cola at $52.16 and it's currently sitting at $68.08...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|4073|Sydney

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

But when you are discussing stocks, the actual profit is one of many factors. One of the reasons I loathe the stock market is the stock price is not directly tied to profit/revenue. A major factor is the demand of the stock price itself. A good example is when you do the stock market exercise in school. People tend to pick stocks like coca cola, playboy, etc.
Yeah I know little about the stock market but I have noticed that a lot of the price is affected by what a lot of people think will happen, eg. if thousands of investors are told that the price will go up, they will buy up stocks and that by effect drives the price up anyway.
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|5562

Dilbert_X wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


I thought you liked free market capitalism and rich people getting richer.

What exactly is wrong here, that doesn't fit with libertarian free market theory?
That's not the point.  I've gotten pre-IPO shares.  Close friends/family, business partners, and venture capitalists get pre-IPO shares, many at the much more valued preferred stock classes.
So what?
Its his private company, Zuckerberg can sell shares as he likes.

Happens in every IPO, it means the underwriters have an incentive to maximise the IPO share price.
Its basically a massive fraud but thats capitalism and IPOs for you.
You made my point.    We are on the same side of the discussion.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5496|132 and Bush

I remember when UPS first went public about 15 years ago. Lots of my driver friends that already had stock retired millionaires ..

*Unfortunately I was just starting with the company and had not accumulated stock prior.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|4597|College Park, MD
i envy that one Google guy. he was some random cafeteria chef who got chosen to run Google's cafeteria and was convinced to do so by taking stock options.

probably the most successful cafeteria chef evar
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4481

I don't use my FB much. It's more of a place for me to get in contact with someone through or for someone to get in contact with me. I keep track of everything through email alerts.

I logged in today and-holy shit this site is a mess. I'm not talking about the users I'm talking about the layout/design and functions. Very active users page's are crowded messes. It's hard to find certain things on people's pages. The chat feature doesn't work like it did before and it's annoyingly placed.

I also find it creepy that I can see my friends conversations with people I don't know...
^^This is the most annoying thing about the whole site to me^^
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+638|5186|Washington St.
only if the person you don't know has a public profile
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4481

That's not the point. It would be nice to control who sees what without having to completely lockdown your profile. Google+ has that so I hear but no one uses Google+.
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+638|5186|Washington St.
Facebook was built from the ground up with the intention of sharing everything with everyone. I remember getting it back in 05 when it was just for colleges and there wasn't even the option to put anything on there you didn't want other people to see. It was just what dorm you lived in or what your major was.
Since it has exploded there's been a need to block some stuff but not other. Which takes "patch" after "patch" to the sight.

G+ was built from the ground up with the idea that before you even add to the sight you can control who sees what.

It comes down to preference and ease of use really. And google isn't going to get 700 million people to switch just because they don't wanna change their visibility preferences. It's really too bad cause I loathe facebook.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4154|foggy bottom
fb was originally a hot or not site
Tu Stultus Es
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+638|5186|Washington St.
Well it has been done.


Now it's dropping like crazy.

Facebook Inc would be fairly priced at $9.59
Source
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|4894|...

Winston_Churchill wrote:

Jay wrote:

I don't know anyone so tied to their facebook account that they couldn't just walk away if pushed.
thats cause youre old.  go to a university and you'll be extremely hard pressed to find somebody without it.  and those who dont have it or try to give it up always come back within weeks.  for high school + university life its basically a requirement to know about events and to keep in touch socially.  youre a weird outcast if you dont have it
you maybe.

I get along just fine without it. Many more do.
inane little opines
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4481

pirana6 wrote:

Well it has been done.


Now it's dropping like crazy.

Facebook Inc would be fairly priced at $9.59
Source

Macbeth wrote:

Criticism of the Facebook Inc. stock deal grew as the shares dropped below their offering price in their first full day of trading Monday, wiping $11.5 billion off the social network's market value.
...
The company, its investment bankers and the Nasdaq Stock Market came under fire for failing to ensure a smooth debut for one of the most anticipated deals in recent memory. Facebook shares, which began trading Friday at $38 and managed to add just 23 cents by the end of that day, fell 11% Monday to $34.03.
...
At $34 a share, Facebook has a price-to-earnings ratio, a measure of how expensive or cheap a stock is, of about 85 times projected earnings for the next 12 months, according to CapitalIQ. By comparison, Google Inc. trades at 13 times earnings.
$38 IPO -> $34.03 Monday -> $31.00 Tuesday.         

Also
George Brady, a 66-year-old recruiter in North Carolina, bought 1,000 shares of Facebook a few minutes after it opened for trading Friday. He said by Monday morning, he sold his holding, taking a $2,770 loss.
Nice job fucking idiot.
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|5562

No need for me to say, "I'm glad I didn't buy any Facebook IPO stocks".  P/E plus model says it all.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|5670|Noizyland

If I was one of the people who were given Facebook stock for working there I would have cashed in as soon as I could. That's most likely what is happening now and what is causing the immediate drop which further benefits those immediately selling. Whether it will stabilise is another thing but I think it was foolish to immediately buy into it, especially given the incredibly high start price which was practically encouraging those who could sell immediately to do so.

I don't know shit about finances and investments though. Knew enough to stay away from investing in Facebook.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4481

Ty wrote:

I don't know shit about finances and investments though.
Uh huh. They put up over 400 million shares up for sale. The group of early employees amount of stock is much smaller.

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