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2012-01-31 00:43:30
LittleBitchy
I hope Hell has wi-fi.
+150|5457|Yeah, there :)
There is no evidence of anyone dying of a marijuana overdose. It helps reduce pain. It can help with mental disorders.
And there are tons of other good things that marijuana actually does or helps with.
The problem is that people don't only use it, but they abuse it. Ofc there is a difference if you smoke a joint from time to time or if you smoke 5 a day. They say wine is also good, a glass a day. Not 2 bottles a day.
The biggest problem are the people consuming it, not marijuana itself.
Fall seven times. Stand up eight.
2012-01-31 00:47:03
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
There is no evidence of anyone dying of a marijuana overdose.
No-one has overdosed on cigarettes that I know of, are cigarettes more/less healthy than alcohol?
It helps reduce pain. It can help with mental disorders.
Same for opiates, they should be legal for recreational experimentation either.
The biggest problem are the people consuming it, not marijuana itself.
Argument applies to alcohol too.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2012-01-31 00:47:27
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6673|Canberra, AUS

Dilbert_X wrote:

NSW farmers are pretty stupid.
I mean it's moronic. They whinge about the slightest cut to their water entitlements whilst not recognising that without huuuuuge cuts, they won't have a usable river in short order. Absolutely ridiculous.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2012-01-31 00:52:30
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
I used to watch Landline, every Sunday it showed farmers flooding their fields from bores and complaining that the govt should pay for them to buy bigger pumps because the water table was falling.

Farmers use water in the most grotesquely wasteful ways imaginable, I visit Berri and Mildura occasionally and enjoy hearing the boasts about how their pumps are so huge they can make the river run backwards, interspersed with sadfaces about there being no water in the river...

Give a farmer free un-metered water and he's going to waste it, I have no sympathy.

That and growing rice and cotton...

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-01-31 00:52:58)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2012-01-31 00:55:58
LittleBitchy
I hope Hell has wi-fi.
+150|5457|Yeah, there :)

Dilbert_X wrote:

There is no evidence of anyone dying of a marijuana overdose.
No-one has overdosed on cigarettes that I know of, are cigarettes more/less healthy than alcohol?
It helps reduce pain. It can help with mental disorders.
Same for opiates, they should be legal for recreational experimentation either.
The biggest problem are the people consuming it, not marijuana itself.
Argument applies to alcohol too.
Do cigarettes or alcohol help with nausea after chemo? Do cigarettes or alcohol relieve pain? There was no connection to cancer and marijuana if someone wasn't smoking cigarettes (lung cancer) but cigarettes were. Do you know how many people die daily because of cigarettes/alcohol? How many die of marijuana?
Comparing opiates to marijuana is just funny imo i don't even know what to say to that o.O It's like comparing smoking a joint and taking LSD.
If they are set to not legalize marijuana they should ban alcohol too. I mean, for real, why the hell can alcohol, which causes way much damage, be legal and marijuana shouldn't?
Even in ancient India and Greece, marijuana was used for curing people and animals, because it really helped with a lot of health problems.

Last edited by LittleBitchy (2012-01-31 00:57:41)

Fall seven times. Stand up eight.
2012-01-31 00:57:25
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6673|Canberra, AUS

LittleBitchy wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

There is no evidence of anyone dying of a marijuana overdose.
No-one has overdosed on cigarettes that I know of, are cigarettes more/less healthy than alcohol?
It helps reduce pain. It can help with mental disorders.
Same for opiates, they should be legal for recreational experimentation either.
The biggest problem are the people consuming it, not marijuana itself.
Argument applies to alcohol too.
Do cigarettes or alcohol help with nausea after chemo? Do cigarettes or alcohol relieve pain? There was no connection to cancer and marijuana if someone wasn't smoking cigarettes (lung cancer) but cigarettes were.
Comparing opiates to marijuana is just funny imo i don't even know what to say to that o.O It's like comparing smoking a joint and taking LSD.
If they are set to not legalize marijuana they should ban alcohol too. I mean, for real, why the hell can alcohol, which causes way much damage, be legal and marijuana shouldn't?
Even in ancient India and Greece, marijuana was used for curing people and animals, because it really helped with a lot of health problems.
Link?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2012-01-31 01:00:10
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6688|Tampa Bay Florida

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

IMHO smoking marijuana daily (whatever the amount) will always be healthier (mentally, physically, emotionally) than drinking liquor on a daily basis.  I challenge anyone in the world to argue the opposite.
I argue the opposite, how about you prove your argument first?

Alcohol is well understood, there is barely any data available for marijuana.
Because I have been an alcoholic and a pothead at different times in the past?  "IMHO"....

The difference is, liquor everyday will make you dysfunctional, a joint a day may make you weird/lazy.  This is supported by the number of healthy, functional, potheads out there. 

Note that I'm not saying "beer vs. weed", I am purposefully saying "liquor".

Last edited by Spearhead (2012-01-31 01:00:39)

2012-01-31 01:05:43
LittleBitchy
I hope Hell has wi-fi.
+150|5457|Yeah, there :)

Spark wrote:

LittleBitchy wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

There is no evidence of anyone dying of a marijuana overdose.
No-one has overdosed on cigarettes that I know of, are cigarettes more/less healthy than alcohol?

Same for opiates, they should be legal for recreational experimentation either.

Argument applies to alcohol too.
Do cigarettes or alcohol help with nausea after chemo? Do cigarettes or alcohol relieve pain? There was no connection to cancer and marijuana if someone wasn't smoking cigarettes (lung cancer) but cigarettes were.
Comparing opiates to marijuana is just funny imo i don't even know what to say to that o.O It's like comparing smoking a joint and taking LSD.
If they are set to not legalize marijuana they should ban alcohol too. I mean, for real, why the hell can alcohol, which causes way much damage, be legal and marijuana shouldn't?
Even in ancient India and Greece, marijuana was used for curing people and animals, because it really helped with a lot of health problems.
Link?
You have it on wiki:
"The evidence to date is conflicting as to whether smoking cannabis increases the risk of developing lung cancer or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) among people who do not smoke tobacco. In 2006 a study by Hashibe, Morgenstern, Cui, Tashkin, et al. suggested that smoking cannabis does not, by itself, increase the risk of lung cancer. Several subsequent studies have found results suggesting the reverse, however many of these were not completed with proper scientific controls and have subsequently been discredited.[citation needed] Many studies did report a strongly synergistic effect, however, between tobacco use and smoking cannabis such that tobacco smokers who also smoked cannabis dramatically increased their already very high risk of developing lung cancer or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease by as much as 300%. "

And you have it here http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the … use-cancer

And you have tons of other links. I don't quite believe that myself, since smoking marijuana every day can't be without consequences and i do think that maybe in some cases it could cause cancer but i am 100% that it increases the risk of lung cancer with people who smoke cigarettes. But it does help with asthma and some other lung diseases so... who knows?
Fall seven times. Stand up eight.
2012-01-31 01:10:16
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6688|Tampa Bay Florida
Another thing : instead of looking at harmful effects of usage, let's look at cessation of use.

A person with a serious alcohol problem is chemically dependent on the substance.  At the very least after withdrawal, they may experience muscle spasms or convulsions.  In a worst case scenario, they can die.

If anyone has any knowledge of reported deaths from marijuana or THC withdrawal I'd sure like to see a link.

Last edited by Spearhead (2012-01-31 01:10:49)

2012-01-31 02:10:29
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

LittleBitchy wrote:

Do cigarettes or alcohol help with nausea after chemo? Do cigarettes or alcohol relieve pain?....Even in ancient India and Greece, marijuana was used for curing people and animals, because it really helped with a lot of health problems.
I don't have a problem with medicinal use of any drug, providing the pros outweigh the cons - that was the point on opiates.
Being a bored teenager is not a medical condition.
There was no connection to cancer and marijuana if someone wasn't smoking cigarettes (lung cancer) but cigarettes were. Do you know how many people die daily because of cigarettes/alcohol? How many die of marijuana?
Comparing opiates to marijuana is just funny imo i don't even know what to say to that o.O It's like comparing smoking a joint and taking LSD.
There isn't that much concrete data available for marijuana, or LSD. Both are apparently linked to development of mental illness.
If they are set to not legalize marijuana they should ban alcohol too. I mean, for real, why the hell can alcohol, which causes way much damage, be legal and marijuana shouldn't?
Alcohol is generally socially accepted, marijuana isn't, the majority don't want it legalised, even in California, bad luck.

"The evidence to date is conflicting....
since smoking marijuana every day can't be without consequences and i do think that maybe in some cases it could cause cancer but i am 100% that it increases the risk of lung cancer with people who smoke cigarettes. But it does help with asthma and some other lung diseases so... who knows
Potheads - If they could come up with a coherent argument...

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-01-31 02:13:32)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2012-01-31 03:54:21
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6409|'Murka

LittleBitchy wrote:

There was no connection to cancer and marijuana if someone wasn't smoking cigarettes (lung cancer) but cigarettes were.
Hmmm.

Turns out, recent studies have found linkages between marijuana smoking and different types of cancer:

Does Smoking Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?

By Lynne Eldridge MD, About.com Guide

Updated January 19, 2011

About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by the Medical Review Board
See More About:

    maijuana
    lung cancer causes


Question: Does Smoking Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?
Answer:

The link between smoking tobacco and lung cancer is undeniable, but does smoking marijuana cause lung cancer, too? The short answer -- probably.

In 2006, many of us in medicine were shocked when a review of research to date did not show an increase in lung cancer related to marijuana use. There was even a suggestion that marijuana had a protective effect against lung cancer. Recent studies, in contrast, do appear to link smoking marijuana with lung cancer.

One study demonstrated a doubling in lung cancer for male marijuana smokers who also used tobacco. Another study found that long-term use of marijuana increased the risk of lung cancer in young adults (55 and under), with the risk increasing in proportion to the amount of marijuana smoked.

Why the controversy?

Since marijuana is illegal, it is hard to do the controlled studies that have been done with tobacco. Because of this, it helps to look at what we do know about marijuana:

    Many of the carcinogens and co-carcinogens present in tobacco smoke are also present in smoke from marijuana.

    Marijuana smoking does cause inflammation and cell damage, and it has been associated with pre-cancerous changes in lung tissue.

    Marijuana has been shown to cause immune system dysfunction, possibly predisposing individuals to cancer.

Bottom line: Though marijuana most likely pales in cancer risk when compared to cigarette smoking, it's better to play it safe. There are reasons in addition to lung cancer risk (and the fact that it is illegal) to avoid marijuana. Marijuana likely increases the risk of testicular cancer, prostate cancer, cervical cancer, a type of brain tumor, and the risk of leukemia in the offspring of women who use it during pregnancy.
Inhaling smoke regularly (of any sort) is bad, m'kay?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2012-01-31 04:57:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5356|London, England

FEOS wrote:

LittleBitchy wrote:

There was no connection to cancer and marijuana if someone wasn't smoking cigarettes (lung cancer) but cigarettes were.
Hmmm.

Turns out, recent studies have found linkages between marijuana smoking and different types of cancer:

Does Smoking Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?

By Lynne Eldridge MD, About.com Guide

Updated January 19, 2011

About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by the Medical Review Board
See More About:

    maijuana
    lung cancer causes


Question: Does Smoking Marijuana Cause Lung Cancer?
Answer:

The link between smoking tobacco and lung cancer is undeniable, but does smoking marijuana cause lung cancer, too? The short answer -- probably.

In 2006, many of us in medicine were shocked when a review of research to date did not show an increase in lung cancer related to marijuana use. There was even a suggestion that marijuana had a protective effect against lung cancer. Recent studies, in contrast, do appear to link smoking marijuana with lung cancer.

One study demonstrated a doubling in lung cancer for male marijuana smokers who also used tobacco. Another study found that long-term use of marijuana increased the risk of lung cancer in young adults (55 and under), with the risk increasing in proportion to the amount of marijuana smoked.

Why the controversy?

Since marijuana is illegal, it is hard to do the controlled studies that have been done with tobacco. Because of this, it helps to look at what we do know about marijuana:

    Many of the carcinogens and co-carcinogens present in tobacco smoke are also present in smoke from marijuana.

    Marijuana smoking does cause inflammation and cell damage, and it has been associated with pre-cancerous changes in lung tissue.

    Marijuana has been shown to cause immune system dysfunction, possibly predisposing individuals to cancer.

Bottom line: Though marijuana most likely pales in cancer risk when compared to cigarette smoking, it's better to play it safe. There are reasons in addition to lung cancer risk (and the fact that it is illegal) to avoid marijuana. Marijuana likely increases the risk of testicular cancer, prostate cancer, cervical cancer, a type of brain tumor, and the risk of leukemia in the offspring of women who use it during pregnancy.
Inhaling smoke regularly (of any sort) is bad, m'kay?
Ban firefighting!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2012-01-31 06:57:53
-CARNIFEX-[LOC]
Da Blooze
+111|6652
Nicotine is poisonous as fuck. I'm guessing even wiki will tell you that. It's one of the most potent neurotoxins known. The amount that's in 3-4 standard cigarettes can easily kill you, but luckily a lot is lost when it burns. When you see people do the trick of lighting like 30 at one time in their mouth, they're actually running quite a risk...but if they're a heavy smoker, they're probably more attuned and less likely to have fatal consequences (heroin addicts can use a lot more than someone on their first time, right?). It's also why you most likely got sick the first time you ever dipped, unless you were already a pretty heavy smoker. Your body will start a vomit reflex long before you reach fatal levels, but if you ate a can of chaw or a pack of smokes, and didn't throw up at all, you'd be in a world of shit.

Ever seen "Thank You for Smoking", where Aaron Eckhart's character gets tied up with nicotine patches all over his body? The kidnappers tell him that if he's a real-deal smoker, he'll get sick but live...but if he's a hypocritical non-smoker, he's going to die. That's honestly pretty accurate, and a fucked up way to kill someone if you're into that.

Cigarettes are bad in every way, from the fact that they're smoked to their active chemical ingredient.

And yes, you can certainly die from smoking too many in a row...but you'd probably get too sick to continue before you hit that wall.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg
2012-01-31 06:59:16
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5584

LittleBitchy wrote:

It can help with mental disorders.
There is research out there that has proven that pot worsens and hastens the onset of schizophrenia.
2012-01-31 07:11:50
-CARNIFEX-[LOC]
Da Blooze
+111|6652
Pot is not harmless, it's just that it's no worse than many other legal, but regulated, substances. And therein lies the rub.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/12516/Bitch%20Hunter%20Sig.jpg
2012-01-31 07:34:26
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5176|Sydney

Macbeth wrote:

LittleBitchy wrote:

It can help with mental disorders.
There is research out there that has proven that pot worsens and hastens the onset of schizophrenia.
This is true. It has recently been concluded however that it does not cause schizophrenia.
2012-01-31 07:45:31
duk0r
Administrator
+306|6666|Austin, TX

Macbeth wrote:

LittleBitchy wrote:

It can help with mental disorders.
There is research out there that has proven that pot worsens and hastens the onset of schizophrenia.
Today's media and advertising does a pretty good job of creating schizophrenia in the masses.
E.G. "Buy this product and become like this rich beautiful actor and get laid every night! YeahhhH!"
https://bf3s.com/sigs/a3a6d1102d14bf2f7e266fba7f728dc2cc38b316.png
2012-01-31 08:14:22
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5176|Sydney

duk0r wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

LittleBitchy wrote:

It can help with mental disorders.
There is research out there that has proven that pot worsens and hastens the onset of schizophrenia.
Today's media and advertising does a pretty good job of creating schizophrenia in the masses.
E.G. "Buy this product and become like this rich beautiful actor and get laid every night! YeahhhH!"
Delusions of grandeur tend to be more a symptom of bipolar than schizophrenia
2012-01-31 08:17:00
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6714

Dilbert_X wrote:

I used to watch Landline, every Sunday it showed farmers flooding their fields from bores and complaining that the govt should pay for them to buy bigger pumps because the water table was falling.

Farmers use water in the most grotesquely wasteful ways imaginable, I visit Berri and Mildura occasionally and enjoy hearing the boasts about how their pumps are so huge they can make the river run backwards, interspersed with sadfaces about there being no water in the river...

Give a farmer free un-metered water and he's going to waste it, I have no sympathy.

That and growing rice and cotton...
Give them unmetered water and end australian water subsidies. see how much they can pay for that water before they end up in debt.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2012-01-31 08:18:53
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5176|Sydney
Australia shouldn't grow rice and cotton. Our climate is just not suited to it, and the current state of the Murray-Darling River System evidence of this fact.
2012-01-31 09:07:24
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6403|North Carolina

Spearhead wrote:

It's probably a cultural thing.  Afghans and the Taliban apparently get high as fuck smoking opium but alcohol is seen as a big no no
Pretty much.  We do some stupid shit to each other over tradition.
2012-01-31 09:11:44
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6403|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

IMHO smoking marijuana daily (whatever the amount) will always be healthier (mentally, physically, emotionally) than drinking liquor on a daily basis.  I challenge anyone in the world to argue the opposite.
I argue the opposite, how about you prove your argument first?

Alcohol is well understood, there is barely any data available for marijuana.
Both are well understood.  Marijuana is nothing new.

That being said, whether one is healthier than the other is dependent on the individual.  Someone who is genetically prone to alcoholism obviously is better off smoking up, but someone schizophrenic is better off drinking.

For most people, alcohol has more immediate health effects than pot.  It's also easier for the average person to get addicted to alcohol.

But again, there are always external factors.  Someone genetically vulnerable to emphysema is better off drinking, while someone with a liver or kidney condition is better off smoking.

Neither habit is "healthy" in a general sense, of course.

Last edited by Turquoise (2012-01-31 09:12:29)

2012-01-31 12:32:12
LittleBitchy
I hope Hell has wi-fi.
+150|5457|Yeah, there :)
It depends on the person.
Marijuana, for some people, causes anxiety, depression. But for most people i know, it works the other way around.
And as for schizophrenia...it was once said that marijuana releases dopamine and that it affects the brain badly.
But almost all drugs do. Cocaine, speed, alcohol (wow, even sex and anything else you have a pleasure doing). And none of that is ever related to schizophrenia. Funny. Most of the studies i read were: "Marijuana use brings on schizophrenia quicker in those who would develop it anyway."
And even more funny. Marijuana slows down the process of Alzheimer's, Parkinson’s helps with migraines, helps even with asthma.
Causes brain tumors? It actually can be very helpful with brain cancer because it kills the cells. Plus it shrinks/stalls the growth of tumors.
Ofc you can't just say: Smoke, it's no big deal, whatever. It is a big deal and if you don't use your head and start abusing it...it can end badly. But that also happens with alcohol and any other drug. So i just don't get how alcohol can be legal and marijuana is such a pain in the ass for some people. They support alcohol and get drunk every weekend - that's fine with them. And marijuana is the baddest thing in the world.

Last edited by LittleBitchy (2012-01-31 12:37:18)

Fall seven times. Stand up eight.
2012-01-31 12:53:54
jord
Member
+2,382|6676|The North, beyond the wall.
I'm coming to jays point of view on this. You can watch emotion documentarys and shit about how some kid that can't concentrate because of seizures gets his life turned around by high CBD cannabis and be emotionally stirred but it detracts from the main argument. I don't want some half way of legalization were you have to lie about an illness to get a medical marijuana card, I just want to buy it at a shop like I can a bottle of jack daniels.

It's just as popular as ever even when it's illegal, it's less harmful than a tonne of legal drugs, it would create revenue via tax and it would be a step in the right direction of a rational way of doing things. "Alcohol is more accepted socially" is because it's been legal for x amount of generations so it's bound to be, no doubt atitudes would change dramatically after it being legal for 2 generations. It's embaressing that it still isn't in the 21st century really.
2012-01-31 12:59:57
west-phoenix-az
Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does
+632|6387
It would also free up law enforcement to investigate other crimes.
https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/west-phoenix-az/BF2S/bf2s_sig_9mmbrass.jpg

 

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