BF2S Forums GM and Chrysler dominate Forbes "Worst Cars of 2011" List

Screw American cars

I want this! How much can I get one for? Subaru Impreza wrx sti 2004

screw that

they can't be that expensive. The one in that picture is 8 years old. Wonder how it would run...

Newer models on craiglist are under 15k

Jay wrote:

One of my roommates in the Army worked for GM in the supply department of a small factory in North Carolina. He drove a Ford Ranger.

Why? Because he said that the parts he received were designed to fail. At the time he worked for them, GM was making twice as much money repairing cars as it was making in sales, so little by little they were cheapening the parts in order to increase repair costs, on purpose. Fucked up operating philosophy, but it seems to me that it's become the standard.

That whole 'they don't make things like they used to' is true. Companies purposely want their product to wear out so that you buy a new one.

People in parts depts have a lot of time to let their imagination run away.

Car companies don't purposely design parts to fail - they'd have their bums sued if they did and that were proven - and they aren't that smart about making profits either.

The parts are designed to be as cheap as possible, preferably cheaper, and just squeak through the design life for the average consumer. Engineer it better than that and you've tried too hard and cost too much. Engineer it worse than that and no-one really cares.
However, 'the average consumer' is the fleet buyer or rental company, who probably won't keep the 'car' longer than 2-3 years.
After that Ford/GM/Chrysler don't give a shit if the thing explodes. Alright not really, but thats their priority. They certainly don't care about operating costs after that point. Cambelt change is a 12 hour engine-out job on a Mondeo? Bad luck.

You need an aftermarket part for a car which is not in current production? You're really out of luck, that tooling has gone to a Mexican in a shed with a dirt floor along with a license to use whatever materials he can salvage from broken TVs.

The problem really is the big three are so management heavy and overheads, including unions, are so high there literally isn't any money left to do real engineering. Management don't want to hear about engineering, its boring and difficult, they want to talk dollars and pie-charts.
Engineers who put their time into engineering will remain at a low level within the company, trying to get any engineering done is a thankless task and gets no management attention, people have to get up from their desks to help you get stuff done and they find that annoying - especially if they're asleep or managing their stock portfolio.

Two fellow engineers on my team had total mental breakdowns while I was there, its not really a lot of fun.

So what do engineers do? Spend as little time on the engineering as possible (its literally impossible to engineer the product and do the paperwork, usually the timing plan doesn't even allow proper engineering of the product - you need to test it? What kind of engineer are you?), bury any problems at least deep enough that they aren't found out until after they've switched into a nice mgmt job - there'll never be any comeback - say 4-5 years into the product life when no-one gives a fuck, providing the paperwork is in order and its someone elses problem, preferably the supplier's, its OK.

The theory really is, "if we get the parts cheap, we'll be able to sell the car for the same price and make more profit" never mind that people won't buy it because its crap.

The Germans and the Japanese have an understanding that 'its the product, stupid', everything else flows from that, and hence they make an effort to make good products which work well and have good resale values which in turn supports the sale price.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-01-10 02:02:49)

HITNRUNXX wrote:

Now you have me curious... Is that really only local brainwashing, or is New York just exempt? How many of you see that where you are at? Anyone outside of the Midwest/Southwest area see the "Buy American Cars or you are not American" attitude?

Wisconsin, Montana, and Alaska - nobody thinks twice if you're driving a Subaru.
They just make sense for the conditions found in those places.

you said "tranny"

HITNRUNXX wrote:

Jay wrote:

HITNRUNXX wrote:

I think it has all been a marketing ploy... Look at the new Taurus... It jumped from being a $18K vehicle to what? $40K? It is a damn Taurus, not a Caddy...

BUT

Buy another U.S. made vehicle for $25K, and you will be replacing it in another 5-7 years... And then in 5-7 more... But you will still only buy American, because you are a Commy bastard if you don't.

I think we are only starting to get out of the brainwashing phase and into the "What is really the best product for the money?" phase...

So buy a higher end, more expensive U.S. vehicle and it will last longer... Or buy the crap at the bottom and complain when it doesn't last as long. Then repeat. OR, look for a better product elsewhere at a better price.

Seriously, stop supporting bad products... You only encourage them...

Dude, that's 100% a Midwestern/Southern mindset. Seeing an American car on the road in the NYC area is so rare you can almost play 'punch buggy' with them. People around here generally don't get blinded by patriotism the way y'all do.

Now you have me curious... Is that really only local brainwashing, or is New York just exempt? How many of you see that where you are at? Anyone outside of the Midwest/Southwest area see the "Buy American Cars or you are not American" attitude?

Here in NC, there's a pretty wide variety.  Japanese cars probably outnumber all of the others, but people don't generally seem to care overall.

Certain brands seem to specialize though.  Most pickup trucks here are American, and most compacts are Japanese. SUVs and sedans seem to be evenly mixed.  The funny thing is that we don't have as many European cars.  The majority of BMWs and Mercedes in my area are usually at least 5 years old and driven by mostly black people.  Most of the luxury vehicles here are either Lexus or Infiniti.

Korean cars are gaining popularity here too.  Kia and Hyundai are fairly common.

I see tons of Mercedes (mostly Jews) and Lexus and BMW. The only American cars I see are like mid-90s shitbox beaters. Even the hispanics all drive toyotas

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Screw American cars

I want this! How much can I get one for? Subaru Impreza wrx sti 2004

iceman785 wrote:

Careful  with these. The sti has a pretty good tranny, if its the 6 speed then its absolutely solid. But the 5 speed the WRX's come with... Couple AWD launches and you can kiss that tranny good bye.

Also the insurance for a male your age is gonna be around 220+ a month... 

But they get pretty decent gas milage if you don't hammer it all the time.

QFE

strong grippy AWD and tuned turbo engine, you will destroy the transmission & drivetrain if you're abusive in the driver seat.
Strong engine/turbo and huge traction from the AWD system will eat the parts in between them, if the driver tells them to.

Normal to spirited driving, they're immensely reliable (my 1996 has over 300,000 miles on the original engine and transmission)
Start doing clutch dumps, missing gear shifts, over-RPM launches, or otherwise wanna-be Speed Racer bullshit, you'll break it.

i want a cadillac

and hydraulics

dennis would turn it into a lowrider

tuckergustav wrote:

B's family is an auto working fam(on both his Mom's and Dad's side).  So, it's quietly frowned upon to buy non GM or Ford.  But, the great thing is we all get decent deals on new cars. 

We have recently been looking into our options on new cars.  We need something small, dependable and good on gas.  Our "best" option is the Focus...hmmm.

focus is a good car, and apparently you get the same version we do now. look at any of them 1.8 bigger, or ST/RS if you like that kind of car.

eleven bravo wrote:

i want a cadillac

Escalade, 30" rims with about 1" of tire on them?