You'd think these ingrates would produce better stuff after having their asses saved by the US taxpayer
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel … z1imII3g9M
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel … z1imII3g9M
This is why they need to go back to doing what they did in the 60's and 70's when their cars were actually good and sold.
Create a base model (Bel Air, Biscayne) that has the smallest motor, no options, no power stuff.
Create mid-ranged model (Impala) bit bigger motor, better interior, radio, still rolly down things for windows.
Create high-end model (Caprice) Biggest motor, power everything, vinyl seats, also came in a station wagon form for the family man.
All of these cars could be outfitted with anything from a 4.1L V6 to the bad ass 7.4L 454 V8 big block.
With today's standards things would have to change with the motors, they'd probably be mated to turbo I4's and V6's, with the option of having the V8 in the sport coupe model, but cars like this would sell, to everyone from the family person to the power hungry guy looking for a fast ride out of the box.
Plus it would be cheaper to create one, well rounded chassis, then just create different bodies for the four different models. Now you've got a full line up of cars that GM is known for.
I just think they need to change their direction, or we'll just end up bailing them out again in 15-20 years. They made a good move coming out with the retro Camaro, just need to take it a step further.
Create a base model (Bel Air, Biscayne) that has the smallest motor, no options, no power stuff.
Create mid-ranged model (Impala) bit bigger motor, better interior, radio, still rolly down things for windows.
Create high-end model (Caprice) Biggest motor, power everything, vinyl seats, also came in a station wagon form for the family man.
All of these cars could be outfitted with anything from a 4.1L V6 to the bad ass 7.4L 454 V8 big block.
With today's standards things would have to change with the motors, they'd probably be mated to turbo I4's and V6's, with the option of having the V8 in the sport coupe model, but cars like this would sell, to everyone from the family person to the power hungry guy looking for a fast ride out of the box.
Plus it would be cheaper to create one, well rounded chassis, then just create different bodies for the four different models. Now you've got a full line up of cars that GM is known for.
I just think they need to change their direction, or we'll just end up bailing them out again in 15-20 years. They made a good move coming out with the retro Camaro, just need to take it a step further.
I think they essentially do that, but with a handful of body/chassis combinations. The base model is a Chevy, the mid-range is a Buick, the luxury model is a Caddy. When they had Pontiac, it was the performance version. They all shared the same chassis, powertrain, etc. (essentially).
The problems here are basic design and workmanship on some of these. But I think fully half of those listed aren't going to be produced next year, and of the ones that have replacements, the next vehicle is getting rave reviews (ie, the next Chevy replacing the Aveo--can't remember what it's called). The Dakota is going away, as is the Colorado, IIRC. No replacements that I know of.
Chrysler just has quality problems--always has, really. GM really has turned things around dramatically. Just have to see if they can keep it up.
The problems here are basic design and workmanship on some of these. But I think fully half of those listed aren't going to be produced next year, and of the ones that have replacements, the next vehicle is getting rave reviews (ie, the next Chevy replacing the Aveo--can't remember what it's called). The Dakota is going away, as is the Colorado, IIRC. No replacements that I know of.
Chrysler just has quality problems--always has, really. GM really has turned things around dramatically. Just have to see if they can keep it up.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Government Motors and Christ-whatapileofshit?
Too big to fail = too big to be bothered to give a damn.
All of the American auto manufacturers have systemic problems, from crippling union contracts, "reserve" worker contracts, outdated supply chains, and a culture of lazy engineering.
None of those problems are going to be fixed unless those companies are allowed to fail. Their assets, engineers, and workers that have value would be picked up by leaner, more agile companies.
That is how the system is supposed to work - not this ludicrous Soviet-style state-sponsored manufacturer setup we've fallen into.
Too big to fail = too big to be bothered to give a damn.
All of the American auto manufacturers have systemic problems, from crippling union contracts, "reserve" worker contracts, outdated supply chains, and a culture of lazy engineering.
None of those problems are going to be fixed unless those companies are allowed to fail. Their assets, engineers, and workers that have value would be picked up by leaner, more agile companies.
That is how the system is supposed to work - not this ludicrous Soviet-style state-sponsored manufacturer setup we've fallen into.
Ford is an American auto manufacturer.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Ford deserves a bit of credit for not soaking the taxpayers for a bailout, as GM and Chrysler did.FEOS wrote:
Ford is an American auto manufacturer.
I still don't trust any modern US made civilian vehicle in an Alaskan (or even Montana) winter.
GM can make a dependable vehicle. Just costs $175,000 to do so (HMMWV, or H1 Hummer).
For $75,000 total, I'll stick with my three Subaru Imprezas, thanks.
Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-01-07 11:21:00)
China owns Hummer now.rdx-fx wrote:
Ford deserves a bit of credit for not soaking the taxpayers for a bailout, as GM and Chrysler did.FEOS wrote:
Ford is an American auto manufacturer.
I still don't trust any modern US made civilian vehicle in an Alaskan (or even Montana) winter.
GM can make a dependable vehicle. Just costs $175,000 to do so (HMMWV, or H1 Hummer)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Yeah.. wouldn't consider anything other than the HMMWV based H1 a real Hummer.FEOS wrote:
China owns Hummer now.
Drop an H2 or H3 out of a C-130 and see what's left after it hits the dropzone...
crunch.
Oooh! an expensive pile of scrap metal!
Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-01-07 11:25:14)
HMMWVs are trash.rdx-fx wrote:
Yeah.. wouldn't consider anything other than the HMMWV based H1 a real Hummer.FEOS wrote:
China owns Hummer now.
Drop an H2 or H3 out of a C-130 and see what's left after it hits the dropzone...
Even a Chinese copy of an H1 would probably be a pile of crap.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Huh.Jay wrote:
HMMWVs are trash.
Mine worked great. Reliable, never broke down in the field, carried plenty of weight, climbed most terrain, and took abuse that would've crumpled a civilian truck.
A vast improvement over the CUC-V we had before them.
As long as the driver did proper PM on Mondays, rather than sleeping off a hangover under the vehicle, HMMWV worked fine.
This depends entirely on what area of Alaska you live in. Up north, in Fairbanks or Kotzebue (where I work) where the temps get to -30F on a regular basis, yes it's absolutely brutal on the car. In Kotz 75% of the cars I hear have transmission whines, even the newer ones, simply because it's so fucking cold.rdx-fx wrote:
Ford deserves a bit of credit for not soaking the taxpayers for a bailout, as GM and Chrysler did.FEOS wrote:
Ford is an American auto manufacturer.
I still don't trust any modern US made civilian vehicle in an Alaskan (or even Montana) winter.
GM can make a dependable vehicle. Just costs $175,000 to do so (HMMWV, or H1 Hummer).
For $75,000 total, I'll stick with my three Subaru Imprezas, thanks.
But here in Anchorage, most do fine. My parents just bought a new Ford Flex and it does awesome. My buddy has a BMW X3 and it took him four hours to start, why? We don't know, it just doesn't want to turn over.
But I agree with the Subaru's, great winter cars.
Born and raised in Anchorage.iceman785 wrote:
This depends entirely on what area of Alaska you live in. Up north, in Fairbanks or Kotzebue (where I work) where the temps get to -30F on a regular basis, yes it's absolutely brutal on the car. In Kotz 75% of the cars I hear have transmission whines, even the newer ones, simply because it's so fucking cold.
But here in Anchorage, most do fine. My parents just bought a new Ford Flex and it does awesome. My buddy has a BMW X3 and it took him four hours to start, why? We don't know, it just doesn't want to turn over.
But I agree with the Subaru's, great winter cars.
Spent three too many winters in Fairbanks.
In the lower 48, having a vehicle unsuited for the local conditions is just stupid (i.e., no AWD/4WD in a northern state with snowy winters)
In the interior of Alaska, or bad winters in Montana, it's plain suicidal.
Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-01-07 11:56:42)
Oh damn! I didn't even know. Well fuck, then you know exactly what I'm talking about!rdx-fx wrote:
Born and raised in Anchorage.iceman785 wrote:
This depends entirely on what area of Alaska you live in. Up north, in Fairbanks or Kotzebue (where I work) where the temps get to -30F on a regular basis, yes it's absolutely brutal on the car. In Kotz 75% of the cars I hear have transmission whines, even the newer ones, simply because it's so fucking cold.
But here in Anchorage, most do fine. My parents just bought a new Ford Flex and it does awesome. My buddy has a BMW X3 and it took him four hours to start, why? We don't know, it just doesn't want to turn over.
But I agree with the Subaru's, great winter cars.
Spent three too many winters in Fairbanks.
Even though my Honda is FWD, with studs it gets around great.
And on-topic, it's why you'll never see me in anything other than a Honda/Acura. Simply because they know what they are doing when it comes to cars, and it's why Honda, Ford and Toyota are doing the best out of the manufacturers right now.
Last edited by iceman785 (2012-01-07 12:04:05)
Impossible to get remotely comfortable in if over 6', even worse in battle rattle. Underpowered aluminum can that breaks if you sneeze at it. Always problems with the glow plugs and cv joints. The only good thing about them is the wheelbase and the axle strength.rdx-fx wrote:
Huh.Jay wrote:
HMMWVs are trash.
Mine worked great. Reliable, never broke down in the field, carried plenty of weight, climbed most terrain, and took abuse that would've crumpled a civilian truck.
A vast improvement over the CUC-V we had before them.
As long as the driver did proper PM on Mondays, rather than sleeping off a hangover under the vehicle, HMMWV worked fine.
I'd rather own a Wrangler, and they're overrated.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm 6'2", and I was fine. Front seats were much better than the rear.Jay wrote:
Impossible to get remotely comfortable in if over 6', even worse in battle rattle. Underpowered aluminum can that breaks if you sneeze at it. Always problems with the glow plugs and cv joints. The only good thing about them is the wheelbase and the axle strength.
I'd rather own a Wrangler, and they're overrated.
Think it was more your overall build, not your height.
Underpowered?
Nah - take off the governor, make sure the plugs and injectors are good, and be religious about the oil and transmission fluid.
Plenty of power to be found in that 6.2L engine, if your motorpool has one or two sympathetic (and competent) mechanics.
Couldn't get them to order the turbo engine for mine, but...
Edit: HMMWV may have flaws, but it was a gift from the gods compared to the flaming pile of shit CUCV we had before them.
Last edited by rdx-fx (2012-01-07 12:22:46)
Sitting in the front passenger seat meant a long ride with a metal exhaust vent and dash digging into my knees and thighs. Knowing that you're sitting on a battery box is just gravy.
I'll never be convinced the HMMWV isn't horrendous, sorry
There's a reason all the officers drove around in civilian cars in Iraq.
I'll never be convinced the HMMWV isn't horrendous, sorry
There's a reason all the officers drove around in civilian cars in Iraq.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
They scrapped it.FEOS wrote:
China owns Hummer now.rdx-fx wrote:
Ford deserves a bit of credit for not soaking the taxpayers for a bailout, as GM and Chrysler did.FEOS wrote:
Ford is an American auto manufacturer.
I still don't trust any modern US made civilian vehicle in an Alaskan (or even Montana) winter.
GM can make a dependable vehicle. Just costs $175,000 to do so (HMMWV, or H1 Hummer)
The problem with American cars is build quality. Swiftly followed by handling and power lol.
That "Made in America" isn't what it once was im afraid, the Japanese make the best cars at the moment as has been said in this thread already
That "Made in America" isn't what it once was im afraid, the Japanese make the best cars at the moment as has been said in this thread already
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2012-01-07 16:07:59)
Too big to fail.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
You'd think these ingrates would produce better stuff after having their asses saved by the US taxpayer
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/bel … z1imII3g9M
Would be nice to get more specifics on how they defined the worst. My GM vehicles have been extremely reliable. Japanese are the most reliable? What about all the millions of cars recalled by Toyota in the past year?
Safety and reliability tests, I guess. I'm sure they can be dug up somewhere. I don't mind GM trucks, but my first choice would never to be to go with a GM or Chrysler car.Stingray24 wrote:
Would be nice to get more specifics on how they defined the worst. My GM vehicles have been extremely reliable. Japanese are the most reliable? What about all the millions of cars recalled by Toyota in the past year?
One of Toyota's big ad campaigns in the years leading up to all their recalls emphasized how so many of their vehicles are now American-made...Stingray24 wrote:
Would be nice to get more specifics on how they defined the worst. My GM vehicles have been extremely reliable. Japanese are the most reliable? What about all the millions of cars recalled by Toyota in the past year?
Not trolling at all here, but it's the truth. Whether or not the recalled model lines were made stateside, I have no idea.
That recall was politically fueled. There was what? One instance of an accelerator sticking? Funny how all the politicians talking about the dangers of Toyota products were Democrats from Rust Belt states I'd buy a Toyota over any American vehicle without a second thought.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
They explained it on the website in the link.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Safety and reliability tests, I guess. I'm sure they can be dug up somewhere. I don't mind GM trucks, but my first choice would never to be to go with a GM or Chrysler car.Stingray24 wrote:
Would be nice to get more specifics on how they defined the worst. My GM vehicles have been extremely reliable. Japanese are the most reliable? What about all the millions of cars recalled by Toyota in the past year?
I recently owned a Ford (2006 Focus; got totaled when a texting bitch ran a red light). I would own a Ford again without a second thought...but it's the only American-made vehicle I would consider.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ford>toyota
the designs of toyota and honda are getting worse and worse
the designs of toyota and honda are getting worse and worse
