Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5524

I think Obama threw away his presidency with the health care reform law but in fairness to him -the U.S. does have a really shitty system.

I was talking to a close friend from highschool today. My friend was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia after having a mental breakdown. He has the sort of schizophrenia that comes and goes in episodes.

Anyway, he spent a month in a psychiatric hospital due to his illness. Despite having health insurance through his parents he still has a bill he has to pay for $50,000. $50,000 for a month in a mental health clinic. That's a huge amount to make someone pay for something they had zero control over. It's not like he was out drinking with his friends and did something dumb and ended up in the hospital. He has an inheritable illness.

I was recently in the same psychiatric hospital as he was for something unrelated. The reason I was in there was my fault of course but to what point I had to be in there is the tricky part. A NJ social worker came to my bedside in the ER and told me that unless I signed myself into the psychiatric hospital she would admit me against my will and my release would have to signed off by a NJ judge rather than the psychiatrist in the hospital. Either way I was going to be paying a bill, whether I was admitted freely or forced in.

My mother works for the state of NJ and has a very good health insurance plan through it. The health insurance wiped out most of my bill though I'm stuck [maybe*] paying around two thousand which won't be a problem for me. My insurance company payed around eight thousand of the bill. So for less than a week stay in the mental health unit against my will I was stuck with a bill for $10,000.

*My insurance company might flip the rest of the bill

I am lucky enough to have a pretty solid health insurance plan. Not everyone is. A $10,000 bill is no small amount and could really cause some hardship for people. I don't know how the hospital can expect a schizophrenic to pay a $50,000 dollar bill either. Just experiencing the mental health aspect of our health system I can say without a doubt it's broken. Forcing people into hospitals and then making them pay the bills for the forced stays is insane really. We don't force criminals to pay the cost of their incarnation...

Anyway..

I'm not saying we can or would be able to go with a full NHS but I think the whole "we have the best health care in the world" thing I hear many on the right chirp on about it is a complete lie. There has to be some sorts of changes to this system. It's really fucked up.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5524

inb4 lololol you were in a mental hospital
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5198|foggy bottom
took too many midols?
Tu Stultus Es
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5524

eleven bravo wrote:

took too many midols?
Ambien is hell of a drug
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5117|Sydney
We have a great system here in Australia. Sure, we pay more in taxes, but if I ever require an ambulance or have to wait for hours to be seen in emergency, no bill comes back to me.

$50,000 for a month in the psych ward? That's fucked up. I've been working as a community support worker in mental health for three years now and some of the people I work with stress over not having a spare $50. I couldn't even begin to imagine the state of their anxiety if they were slapped with a bill of $50,000
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6092|what

Macbeth wrote:

I don't know how the hospital can expect a schizophrenic to pay a $50,000 dollar bill either.
Yeah that's one thing that is often overlooked by those who say you should be able to afford the costs, etc. Often the medical condition forces another loss of income via time out of work, etc

Macbeth wrote:

I'm not saying we can or would be able to go with a full NHS but I think the whole "we have the best health care in the world" thing I hear many on the right chirp on about it is a complete lie.
They stop complaining about it when it benefits them. Until they get sick and use it, they don't really understand the need.

The health system is Aus is pretty good in that nearly everything is subsidised, so much so even a general GP visit shouldn't cost you anything.

inb4 blah blah you still pay taxes! - Yeah, we do. But as a collective. The money I pay towards someone else's bill, I'm happy to do so.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6045|eXtreme to the maX
Whats important is not to tax rich people, or have doctors earning realistic wages.

So many other aspects of life are socialised, even in America, not socialising healthcare - its a lottery who gets sick and who doesn't (mostly) - for paranoid ideological reasons is pathetic.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6350|'Murka

So despite the stories out there, both you and your friend got the care you needed, then. Weird.

And, despite the stories out there, it's possible to work with the hospital involved to reduce that bill and/or get a very reasonable payment plan settled. It's not like he (or you) have to pay that amount all at once. I've interfaced with billing departments of hospitals and private offices for 11+ years, and they are all very flexible in that regard.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6045|eXtreme to the maX
He still got stung with a bill.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
hocSiciliano
Member
+6|4492|New York
Nothing in life is free. You want the government to pay for everything....then you end up with crappy care AND riots in the streets the second the government goes back on its freebies.

Ridiculous. It absolutely sucks he got hit with a 50k bill, I am 100% with you but I would shy away from the idea that we here in the US have a "shitty" healthcare system. Does it have its flaws, absolutely but I would argue you are getting the best services in the same respect.

Cant stand this everyone should get everything mentality we are developing but in an effort to avoid a rant I am going to leave it at that.

Last edited by hocSiciliano (2011-12-16 04:54:42)

Swissy201
That guy
+12|6217
There are other BS policies with health insurance as well. I had to have surgery about 2 years ago, and insurance only covered the doctors' fees, not the anesthesia. So insurance pays to fix a problem, but not to keep the operation painless.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6092|what

hocSiciliano wrote:

You want the government to pay for everything....then you end up with crappy care AND riots in the streets the second the government goes back on its freebies.
lol'd
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
hocSiciliano
Member
+6|4492|New York

AussieReaper wrote:

hocSiciliano wrote:

You want the government to pay for everything....then you end up with crappy care AND riots in the streets the second the government goes back on its freebies.
lol'd
Glad I could bring a smile to your face from halfway across the world
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5640|College Park, MD

hocSiciliano wrote:

Nothing in life is free. You want the government to pay for everything....then you end up with crappy care AND riots in the streets the second the government goes back on its freebies.

Ridiculous. It absolutely sucks he got hit with a 50k bill, I am 100% with you but I would shy away from the idea that we here in the US have a "shitty" healthcare system. Does it have its flaws, absolutely but I would argue you are getting the best services in the same respect.

Cant stand this everyone should get everything mentality we are developing but in an effort to avoid a rant I am going to leave it at that.
we don't have shitty health care but it's not the best either. our life expectancies and infant mortality rates are well above those of several countries with nationalized health care systems.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5297|London, England
If I added up the cost of insurance premiums over the course of my lifetime, I guarantee that it would end up costing me less than I would alternatively be forced to pay in taxes into a government bureaucracy.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
hocSiciliano
Member
+6|4492|New York

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

hocSiciliano wrote:

Nothing in life is free. You want the government to pay for everything....then you end up with crappy care AND riots in the streets the second the government goes back on its freebies.

Ridiculous. It absolutely sucks he got hit with a 50k bill, I am 100% with you but I would shy away from the idea that we here in the US have a "shitty" healthcare system. Does it have its flaws, absolutely but I would argue you are getting the best services in the same respect.

Cant stand this everyone should get everything mentality we are developing but in an effort to avoid a rant I am going to leave it at that.
we don't have shitty health care but it's not the best either. our life expectancies and infant mortality rates are well above those of several countries with nationalized health care systems.
Exactly my point. Its isn't flawless by any means and I agree things should be refined but to have a completely socialized program I think would absolutely be detrimental.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5297|London, England
My big argument is that it's simply easier to hold down costs, and hold people accountable, when there is competition. If my insurance company is fucking me over, I can switch. If it's the government fucking me over, all I can do is ask them nicely to use lube.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5198|foggy bottom
when the army was paying for my hernia surgery, the original hospital i was going to have the procedure done didnt want to do it until I coughed up the money.   It was about 2 months of wrangling with them before I said fuck it Im going to another provider for the surgery.  The second place I went to had no problem taking TRICARE and in fact,  conducted a procedure that was painful for me than if I had recieved surgery at the initial hospital.  The doctor at the initial hospital wanted to perform localized surgery (meaning Im awake during the procedure) while I ended up going under general anesthsia at the second hospital.  To top it off, I saw the same doctor from the first place at my jr college walking around campus about 1 month later looking like a student.  this guy grabbed my nuts when i went to my initial consultation and when i saw that I started wondering if the fucker was really even a doctor.
Tu Stultus Es
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6481|Texas - Bigger than France
I get to hear doctors bitch about not getting paid. 

I've actually heard a doctor say "yeah, hospitals have a big bill...but they don't expect to get reimbursed by the insurance companies fully.  So they raise the bill in hopes the insurance company will give out a bigger check".

The whole system is messed up.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5198|foggy bottom
thats true.  if I had had a private insurance company paying for my surgery, they would have billed me about $5K.  Since army tricare was paying for it, they billed me $20k
Tu Stultus Es
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6481|Texas - Bigger than France

Jay wrote:

My big argument is that it's simply easier to hold down costs, and hold people accountable, when there is competition. If my insurance company is fucking me over, I can switch. If it's the government fucking me over, all I can do is ask them nicely to use lube.
Incorporate this into my thought...

...is it the insurance company fucking you over?

As a person without a medical degree, am I in a position to figure out what is best for my surgery in terms of care versus cost?  Who is?  The doctor or the insurance company?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5297|London, England

Pug wrote:

Jay wrote:

My big argument is that it's simply easier to hold down costs, and hold people accountable, when there is competition. If my insurance company is fucking me over, I can switch. If it's the government fucking me over, all I can do is ask them nicely to use lube.
Incorporate this into my thought...

...is it the insurance company fucking you over?

As a person without a medical degree, am I in a position to figure out what is best for my surgery in terms of care versus cost?  Who is?  The doctor or the insurance company?
I, luckily, live in a part of the country where it's easy to get a second opinion.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6481|Texas - Bigger than France
Ok, and the second opinion is the same as the first...

...and the insurance company denies part of your claim because both doctors put in something that wasn't covered...

So my question is...who fucked you?  The doctor, the insurance company, or yourself?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5297|London, England

Pug wrote:

Ok, and the second opinion is the same as the first...

...and the insurance company denies part of your claim because both doctors put in something that wasn't covered...

So my question is...who fucked you?  The doctor, the insurance company, or yourself?
Me, for not paying for quality insurance

Though it's rather impossible to know what's covered when insurance companies don't release comprehensive lists.

Last edited by Jay (2011-12-16 10:00:21)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6350|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

He still got stung with a bill.
Oh dear God NO! He had to pay for a service rendered! The horror!
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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