Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5532|Toronto

uziq wrote:

do the right thing, get a zowie.
Zowie or Steelseries gets my vote. I used a basic bitch Steelseries RAW. I like the handfeel.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

I've got the Rival 500 and the high profile Zowie both at the forefront of my compare list. One G600 I'm pretty sure I can repair when bored and the other I don't really care about. They both felt right but I'm kind of tired of Logitech's software. It was for the button group more than the brand anyway.

Junker mouse has a blue light that cannot be turned off. This will not last me.
uziq
Member
+492|3441
zowie mice don't have software. plug and play. remembers its firmware settings. adjustable DPI and refresh rate and that's it. you can change the lift-off distance by pressing a combination of buttons when you plug in the mouse. super basic, and super good. i don't know why a mouse needs its own fucking software. it's just another layer of latency and another load of driver bullshit that will go wrong.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

I might actually pick both up. I don't always need the "MMO" functionality, but I miss it when I could be using it.

Super old drum but it's still annoying to me that when I find a mouse with a combination of nifty features that are attractive to me, it looks like a Transformer caught undressing or something. Not just tacky looking either. Harder to clean, and if you can't turn off the lights it can get uncomfortably warm.

My ideal feels impossible though. I'm certainly not going to hold my breath for a mouse with:

  • hardware light switch
  • on-the-fly dpi adjustment with some sort of indication of what level you're toggling it to (three bars like on one of my old mice that's no longer available, or even a multidigit display for finer on-the-fly adjustment; hardware level ideal but software-end fine if it lets you set profiles to different games)
  • easy weight adjustment
  • three primary buttons
  • 9-12 key numberpad (would be sweet if on an ambidextrous design where you could swap the side it was plugged into)
  • "chunky," notched mouse wheel with left, right, and center click
  • replacement kits available for footing or grip padding
  • easily swappable cord if wired (preferred) only
  • if wireless, able to use while charging
  • quick reset button in case hardware or software settings get messed up somehow
  • quality build, doesn't look like plastic shards glued together


For all its other failings, the G600 covered at least a portion of that.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

I wish Microsoft would revive the SideWinder product line for a third-gen peripheral offering. I could totally go for a 'Force Feedback 3' on the off-hand chance my old, reliable 2 finally kicks the bucket. Would hate to buy a replacement on ebay that smelled like cigarettes.

One mouse I'd like to try is the Swiftpoint Z. Would be nice for sandbox games like Far Cry, GTA, Mafia, etc. that frequently switch between a k/m ideal and something where a more analog control is helpful.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/05 … use-review
uziq
Member
+492|3441
i have never in my life seen the point for a mouse with 12 buttons. what serious MMO player even uses them? all the top pvp’ers and raiders just use keyboard shortcuts. you can bind about 30 different actions just around the WASD alone, using shift and ctrl variations. having a giant disgusting mouse with a bunch of buttons you’ll use twice a week ... no.

i want about three things: the BEST sensor, high build quality, direct plug-n-play. i don’t even care about adjustable DPI. i always use the lowest DPI anyway and scale it properly with the windows default mouse settings for best ratio. who the fuck switches between 3 DPIs on the fly? i think i only ever did that in bf2 tanks. not worth having a rubbish mouse over.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

Just calling it an MMO mouse probably doesn't do it full justice. A lot of games, including non-MMO ARPGs, space games, and various sandboxes have a ton of controls and can benefit from more input options. Some game mods will even add additional commands. Having the additional buttons for macros is nice as well. It can save my hand from having to wander around the keyboard too much or try to remember if I set something to shift-x, ctrl-x, or ctrl+shift+x and accidentally firing all of my missiles. It lets my mouse hand share some of the workload so my keyboard hand can focus more on movement. And it's something I definitely use more than "twice a week."

You kind of answered your own question on DPI adjustment when you said you used it for BF2 tanks. I frequently use it when popping between different perspectives, zoom levels, vehicles, and different games altogether. It saves me from having a complicated list of profiles or spending a lot of time in the main menu finding just the right amount of sensitivity.

If I tried something like the Swiftpoint Z and grew accustomed to a tilt (axis), I'd probably miss that too if the mouse broke down.

Yes, neither of these is a prerequisite for rocket jumping around TF2. But it's bemusing to me why it's cause for mild hostility and nose upturning in a first world problems thread. Just because a feature isn't useful or preferable to you doesn't mean it isn't for someone else. Your audiophile solutions probably won't be seen as a useful (or meaningful) expense to a lot of people. But far from sneering, I just think it's interesting.

I think the best I can do is a two-mouse solution. One for when I require more inputs, and one where I'm doing just about anything else. It's helpful that the Zowie is software free.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5347|London, England

uziq wrote:

i have never in my life seen the point for a mouse with 12 buttons. what serious MMO player even uses them? all the top pvp’ers and raiders just use keyboard shortcuts. you can bind about 30 different actions just around the WASD alone, using shift and ctrl variations. having a giant disgusting mouse with a bunch of buttons you’ll use twice a week ... no.

i want about three things: the BEST sensor, high build quality, direct plug-n-play. i don’t even care about adjustable DPI. i always use the lowest DPI anyway and scale it properly with the windows default mouse settings for best ratio. who the fuck switches between 3 DPIs on the fly? i think i only ever did that in bf2 tanks. not worth having a rubbish mouse over.
I had one, took time to map each button to a macro, and then promptly forgot which button was which when I went to use it.

I do miss my old G15 keyboard. That thing was actually useful/awesome.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+492|3441
that was another trend i never really got. i had the g15 (g25?) logitech keyboard. the orange one with a tiny little LED screen that could even show your BF2 stats. whoever used that? it was like an ancient precursor to the fancy OLED touchbar on current-gen macbooks (courtesy +$300). and who the hell uses those? a neat gimmick but meh.

i went mechanical in like 2008/9, way before it got utterly stupid and became like a connoisseur-level passion with its own subreddits. nowadays people are buying mechanical keyboards with custom-machined keycaps made out of different plastic profiles, machined bases, removable cables, weights and counterweights, 25 different type of switch, obligatory RGB ... and spending like $400 in the process. a simple no-frills mechanical does for me (and, no surprises, i type a shit-ton), ditto the simple mouse.

But it's bemusing to me why it's cause for mild hostility and nose upturning in a first world problems thread.
and, well, i'm expressing the same general disdain as you. this 'cram it with features' design philosophy is the reason why 99% of gaming peripherals look like a deconstructed Richard Roger's building.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-09 03:47:01)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

I already said I used on-the-fly sensitivity and the control pad on the regular. If they didn't help me or were rarely useful to me, it wouldn't be something I'd look at. I'm perfectly ok with you not having a use for them, but after a gaming session tonight I'm already feeling the loss.

I'm even fine with people who are into the jagged broken shards look, even if it's not my preference. I just wish there were more or different aesthetic options for feature mice.

Never used a gaming keyboard myself.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

Also fwp, both my front loading washer and dryer open to the left. It would be nice if they opened in opposite directions so I didn't have to wrestle clothes around one of the doors. Of course it's more important that they just function. And I'm glad I don't have to use a communal laundry room or sit around a laundromat.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5347|London, England
You can rotate the hinge on one of them
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

Not all models let you customize swing direction.

Not a major grievance by any means, though. But I will buy a matched set when one eventually breaks down beyond the point it's worth fixing.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5347|London, England

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Not all models let you customize swing direction.

Not a major grievance by any means, though. But I will buy a matched set when one eventually breaks down beyond the point it's worth fixing.
Unfortunate for you! I flipped the hinge on my dryer when I stacked them
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
gurdeep
­
+812|4744|proll­y
https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/g … el-o-black

i have this one and absolutely love it. the g pro wireless is great too
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5532|Toronto
My tulips were just coming into bloom and now it's snowing like a mf...in May. Thanks, Canada.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5347|London, England

Pochsy wrote:

My tulips were just coming into bloom and now it's snowing like a mf...in May. Thanks, Canada.
Just crazy windy here. About 2C, with a feels like of -3C, when I woke up.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

All the DLC for EU4 is currently on sale at 50% to 75% off. Together it comes to $190. On sale …

I'm not really alone in my frustration with this stuff, but it's staunchly defended by who I guess are Paradox fanatics. "What about Sims, or what about the Train stuff" some say. Yeah, ok. The trains sim is expensive for each new train. So I guess I should be fine with paying $15 every time a set of glorified decision making tools are released that should have been in the base game. Or "oh hey, we forgot to skin the soldiers for this one minor faction. $10, please."

I usually wait until the sequel's out on these kinds of games so I can grab it all at deep discount. But EU4 has been out since 2013 and there is still pending DLC. I guess it could be worse with something like a subscription fee, but still … talk about milking your players.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3709

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

All the DLC for EU4 is currently on sale at 50% to 75% off. Together it comes to $190. On sale …

I'm not really alone in my frustration with this stuff, but it's staunchly defended by who I guess are Paradox fanatics. "What about Sims, or what about the Train stuff" some say. Yeah, ok. The trains sim is expensive for each new train. So I guess I should be fine with paying $15 every time a set of glorified decision making tools are released that should have been in the base game. Or "oh hey, we forgot to skin the soldiers for this one minor faction. $10, please."

I usually wait until the sequel's out on these kinds of games so I can grab it all at deep discount. But EU4 has been out since 2013 and there is still pending DLC. I guess it could be worse with something like a subscription fee, but still … talk about milking your players.
I have all of the EU4 DLC. Since I buy each DLC at launch, I have paid way more than $190 for all of it but since it is spread over 7 years it didn't seem bad. I have 1658 hours in EU4 and another 1409 in CK2. So I have gotten the value out of the DLC for all the games. Paradox is now adding a subscription service to allow people to play EU4 with all the DLC so they don't have to make an upfront investment of hundreds of dollars to get the full experience.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6761|PNW

If you've spread it out over 7 years and have played like 1000+ hours, I guess it's justifiable. But it's still a huge sum even on a sale to ask of new or returning players to get caught up. And maybe a bit of a cruel model for people who don't have much money. I feel like the DLC is only going to get more densely packed and less inspired per as time goes on.

I don't mind paying for expansive scenarios, events, or even skins on occasion. But I think charging $15 for stuff decisions that should honestly be in vanilla seems like it's taking advantage a wee bit.

HOI3, EU3, Victoria II 100+ hrs ea/, CK2 ~50 hrs. No data on some of the earlier stuff.

Non-Paradox: CoH ~500 hours, CoH2 ~400 hours.

BF1942-2, I don't really want to know.


e: for people who build janky-fingered gundams, they probably don't feel much of an impact
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5347|London, England
It's amazing how incredibly cheap some video games are as entertainment. $190 looks like a lot, but it's only cost macbeth $0.11 per hour.

Even if you only got 10 hours of play time out of a video game costing $60 it's still way less expensive than spending $20 on a 90 minute movie.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+492|3441
except the games require a huge outlay to play them, namely on a specialized, powerful pc, a keyboard/mouse, an expensive monitor.

and when you buy a game for its box price, you're often thesedays only buying 60% of its content. the rest you are induced to buy, as an extra, in DLCs and expansion packs and skins and loot boxes.

movies require a television screen, something every household has at this point, and relatively inexpensive. nobody is down -$1500 in investment in order to be able to watch a movie.

you can also stream movies, or rent them from an online service, or pay to a subscription pool (i subscribe to Mubi and BFI). so 1x movie doesn't really cost $20 anymore.

if you do pay $20 for a blu-ray or dvd, you're getting more than 90 minutes content in extras.

and people re-watch movies, often several times. so it's more than 90 minutes anyway.

but yes, good work using your modelling nous. so many factors! wow!

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-15 10:51:27)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3709

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

If you've spread it out over 7 years and have played like 1000+ hours, I guess it's justifiable. But it's still a huge sum even on a sale to ask of new or returning players to get caught up. And maybe a bit of a cruel model for people who don't have much money. I feel like the DLC is only going to get more densely packed and less inspired per as time goes on.

I don't mind paying for expansive scenarios, events, or even skins on occasion. But I think charging $15 for stuff decisions that should honestly be in vanilla seems like it's taking advantage a wee bit.

HOI3, EU3, Victoria II 100+ hrs ea/, CK2 ~50 hrs. No data on some of the earlier stuff.

Non-Paradox: CoH ~500 hours, CoH2 ~400 hours.

BF1942-2, I don't really want to know.


e: for people who build janky-fingered gundams, they probably don't feel much of an impact
I wouldn't invest any time or money into a game if I saw it had hundreds of dollars worth of DLC. I suggest you not bother with EU4. The learning curve is very steep. The last few DLCs have been criticized as just including a bunch of new buttons to click but the upcoming one looks good. I think they worked on the next one for over a year. It's also unusual for a game to get nearly a decade of updates and support.

I was going to pre-order Crusader Kings 3 but I doubt it now. A fancier map and more RPG elements? Meh. If it included Total War style battles I would be very interested. The same thing with EU5 if there is ever one. Unless they add real time battles I wouldn't get that either.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3709

Uzique wrote:

mmmf mmmf mmmf
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5347|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Uzique wrote:

mmmf mmmf mmmf
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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