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uziq
Member
+153|1647
"little data drugs have any positive effect".

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/healthy … n-be-legal

Last year, we reported on the use of the hallucinogenic drugs MDMA and psilocybin to ease symptoms in people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and treatment-resistant depression. Since then, evidence has continued to mount that these drugs, when administered in controlled therapeutic settings, may be able to succeed where traditional pharmaceuticals have fallen short in the treatment of each condition. One of them, in fact—MDMA—is currently on track for FDA approval.

MDMA’s ability to increase feelings of trust and compassionhas made it a popular party drug, and that attribute may also make it an unusually effective complement to psychotherapy in people with PTSD. In a small, placebo-controlled study of PTSD sufferers published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, for instance, researchers found that the drug, administered during two eight-hour psychotherapy sessions spaced about a month apart, reduced symptoms for the majority of participants; a follow-up study in the same journal found that the effects lasted up to six years in some cases.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6041963/

Mental disorders are rising while development of novel psychiatric medications is declining. This stall in innovation has also been linked with intense debates on the current diagnostics and explanations for mental disorders, together constituting a paradigmatic crisis. A radical innovation is psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy (PAP): professionally supervised use of ketamine, MDMA, psilocybin, LSD and ibogaine as part of elaborated psychotherapy programs. Clinical results so far have shown safety and efficacy, even for “treatment resistant” conditions, and thus deserve increasing attention from medical, psychological and psychiatric professionals. But more than novel treatments, the PAP model also has important consequences for the diagnostics and explanation axis of the psychiatric crisis, challenging the discrete nosological entities and advancing novel explanations for mental disorders and their treatment, in a model considerate of social and cultural factors, including adversities, trauma, and the therapeutic potential of some non-ordinary states of consciousness.
it's almost like ken was right ... and you're just massively ignorant. /shrug
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,606|4301|eXtreme to the maX
On the one hand we know that alcohol use, mostly in excess  has a long term cost.
Although I'm not sure what harm "drinkers loitering near residential streets" causes, you could apply that to a lot of things, gypsies and football fans for example.

And we don't yet know the long-term cost of recreational drug-taking.

Evidence Links Cocaine Abuse And Parkinson's Disease
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 … 084800.htm


MDMA’s ability to increase feelings of trust and compassionhas made it a popular party drug, and that attribute may also make it an unusually effective complement to psychotherapy in people with PTSD.
I'm talking about the positive benefits of recreational use, not therapeutic use. Warfarin and thalidomide do have positive therapeutic uses, they probably shouldn't be used recreationally though.

Its almost as if you can't follow a simple argument.

The "doctors prescribe it for illnesses ergo I can use it for fun" argument isn't really.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-03-11 05:10:12)

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uziq
Member
+153|1647
it doesn't stop you being scientifically illiterate. alcohol is objectively more toxic and harmful than MDMA, LSD, ketamine, etc ... pretty much every drug except heroin and cocaine, in fact (pretty funny you mention warfarin, which is prescribed in treatments to deal with ... effects of alcohol abuse).

cocaine abuse and parkinson's is a pretty likely link, yes. a drug that bombs your dopamine system in a huge way is probably going to lead to dopamine-related brain problems late in life if you abuse it enough. it is more toxic and more addictive than alcohol -- i have no quarrel there. what's funny is that someone who gets drunk once a week and bombs their liver, or, as the study says, 'people who abused [the drug] in the 70s and 80s', don't consider the fact that alcohol has significantly affected their health and possibly shortened their lifespan, also.

what i'm arguing with, since you seem to struggle yourself, is the ludicrous assertion that we have 'adapted' to alcohol, as if by frequent taking of beer the human body has 'evolved' a capacity to digest it (your milk analogy is stupid; milk is not a psychoactive and addictive substance; milk does not damage your liver). i'm not sure any physician or GP is going to prescribe alcohol for therapeutic use any time soon because the substance is absolutely terrible for your health at anything over minimal rates of consumption. in fact, i'm pretty sure most doctors would just recommend avoiding alcohol altogether.

you cherry pick the argument. alcohol in your view is 'beneficial' because, of course, you're charitably using 'recreational' here in the sense of 'has a glass of wine with a meal', as opposed to the part i linked in my last post where alcohol represents a massive public health issue in the western world and many people clearly have a problem with alcohol abuse and addiction (or, at the least, alcohol dependency in order to function in social situations). alcohol is objectively more addictive than the likes of MDMA and LSD, too, and thus far more dangerous to dabble with recreationally. but again, you cherry pick the argument where everyone who takes drugs for fun is on the inevitable slide to sucking dick in an alleyway, whereas alcohol, 'anecdotally', is fine. well i don't think you have to look very hard for plenty of anecdotes that tell of alcohol's recreational misuse.

you drink alcohol, we get it. but let's not pretend you don't have some pretty severe cognitive biases about the fact it is a physically and mentally harmful substance and is more addictive and much more dangerous than most other drugs – including drugs you look down on. your view, expressed elsewhere, that anyone who takes a drug other than alcohol has some sort of 'mental lack' is laughably illiterate. people have been ruining their lives perfectly well with booze for a long time. all that you express is the pretty much conventional social attitude, that alcohol is 'ok' to take because it is (mostly) contained within social rituals and taboos; it's a form of intoxication we have come to socially accept, despite the quite evident high costs. but let me know when you find all those wives and children who are victims of domestic abuse because of the demon drug, MDMA.

Last edited by uziq (2019-03-11 12:38:11)

uziq
Member
+153|1647
much more your thing dilbs. lmao.



On the one hand we know that alcohol use, mostly in excess  has a long term cost.
evidently 'in excess' means anything over 14 units a week (i.e. 1 pint of mild lager a day). anything more than that and you are negatively affecting your health -- which, fair enough if you keep to that. as the normie dad figure in the video above shows, however, drinking a few times a week when at the pub socialising or watching sports is going to leave you with a badly fatty liver and fibrosis scarring. cutting from 20 units to 14 units a week, i.e. an extra 2-3 pints, can save an average of 2 year's life expectancy. lifelong 'heavy' drinkers (bearing in mind the very modest recommended intake above) can lose 10–20 years of life expectancy.

it's almost as if it's very well-established that alcohol is a harmful substance ...

Last edited by uziq (2019-03-11 13:42:09)

coke
Aye up duck!
+435|4904|England. Stoke
I have known several people who've drunk themselves into early graves/turned themselves into complete physical and mental wrecks, but no one who has died from taking drugs, or even become an "addict", and trust me I know plenty of people who've done plenty of recreational drugs over like 15 years.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
25% of school resources are spent on 4% of students. Students with behavioral and learning disorders mostly.

I just had to spend my lunch writing a multi paragraph email explaining the grading system to the parent of an African American student with a IEP (government document saying the kids are retarded and you can't fail them).

I already am fixing the kids grades as it is (his 77 should be a 55) but now have to hear complaints from a parent and hope they don't run through complaint up the flag pole. Meanwhile their kid comes to class and does nothing but listen to rap music and watch basketball on his phone.

I dealt with the same shit in Newark with black parents complaining about grades for their children with IEPs while they do nothing in class and are often aggressive. I am convinced this system was put in place with the chief goal of closing the "achievement gap" so black people won't complain. Especially since I haven't met a white kid with one.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,780|4827|949

An individual education plan covers many categories, not just "retarded" children.  They cover allergies, learning disabilities, social disorders (i'm certain with our increased understanding of mental and social disorders, you would have probably been on an IEP too, Mac).  It's not an automatic pass, it's to document the process of specialized education for certain children who need it. 

There's nothing in an IEP that says you can't fail the child.  My guess is that you are fixing the grades because you aren't adhering to the IEP, or you don't care enough to do anything about the kid not following it.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
I can read his problems in the IEP. He isn't completely retarded but low ability to comprehend things, stay focused, take responsibility, read, write etc. He doesn't have down syndrome but obviously can't keep up with checks notes everyone else I deal with.

I have been warned by veteran teachers of the issues that happen if you try to fail a kid with an IEP. I have been pressured by admin to fix their grades before.

He can find basketball clips on YouTube though. You might like to hang out with him. Just don't let him in your condo. He might steal something on his way out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
The parent emailed back and thanked me for the clarification and acknowledged I am very busy.

So I am sorry I racially discriminated against them and called the kid a retard.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,780|4827|949

you should show them this thread so they understand how busy you are and so they can understand your frustration.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,606|4301|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

it doesn't stop you being scientifically illiterate. alcohol is objectively more toxic and harmful than MDMA, LSD, ketamine, etc ... pretty much every drug except heroin and cocaine, in fact (pretty funny you mention warfarin, which is prescribed in treatments to deal with ... effects of alcohol abuse).

cocaine abuse and parkinson's is a pretty likely link, yes. a drug that bombs your dopamine system in a huge way is probably going to lead to dopamine-related brain problems late in life if you abuse it enough. it is more toxic and more addictive than alcohol -- i have no quarrel there. what's funny is that someone who gets drunk once a week and bombs their liver, or, as the study says, 'people who abused [the drug] in the 70s and 80s', don't consider the fact that alcohol has significantly affected their health and possibly shortened their lifespan, also.

what i'm arguing with, since you seem to struggle yourself, is the ludicrous assertion that we have 'adapted' to alcohol, as if by frequent taking of beer the human body has 'evolved' a capacity to digest it (your milk analogy is stupid; milk is not a psychoactive and addictive substance; milk does not damage your liver). i'm not sure any physician or GP is going to prescribe alcohol for therapeutic use any time soon because the substance is absolutely terrible for your health at anything over minimal rates of consumption. in fact, i'm pretty sure most doctors would just recommend avoiding alcohol altogether.

you cherry pick the argument. alcohol in your view is 'beneficial' because, of course, you're charitably using 'recreational' here in the sense of 'has a glass of wine with a meal', as opposed to the part i linked in my last post where alcohol represents a massive public health issue in the western world and many people clearly have a problem with alcohol abuse and addiction (or, at the least, alcohol dependency in order to function in social situations). alcohol is objectively more addictive than the likes of MDMA and LSD, too, and thus far more dangerous to dabble with recreationally. but again, you cherry pick the argument where everyone who takes drugs for fun is on the inevitable slide to sucking dick in an alleyway, whereas alcohol, 'anecdotally', is fine. well i don't think you have to look very hard for plenty of anecdotes that tell of alcohol's recreational misuse.

you drink alcohol, we get it. but let's not pretend you don't have some pretty severe cognitive biases about the fact it is a physically and mentally harmful substance and is more addictive and much more dangerous than most other drugs – including drugs you look down on. your view, expressed elsewhere, that anyone who takes a drug other than alcohol has some sort of 'mental lack' is laughably illiterate. people have been ruining their lives perfectly well with booze for a long time. all that you express is the pretty much conventional social attitude, that alcohol is 'ok' to take because it is (mostly) contained within social rituals and taboos; it's a form of intoxication we have come to socially accept, despite the quite evident high costs. but let me know when you find all those wives and children who are victims of domestic abuse because of the demon drug, MDMA.
You're comparing alcohol with MDMA and LSD, I wasn't, I was comparing alcohol and crack, ice etc. so all your clever arguments are moot because you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with some imaginary person.

The people I know who've fucked up their lives with alcohol are fairly universally people who turned to alcohol after they were prevented from getting hold of other drugs. I imagine you need a hell of a lot of alcohol to replicate a cocaine high for example, not that thats an argument for letting people have cocaine.
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uziq
Member
+153|1647
no, i'm talking about your remarks elsewhere when you said anyone who seeks out anything other than alcohol has a 'mental lack' or something like that.

and yes, i imagine it would take an awful lot of alcohol, a depressant, to mimic the high of a stimulant.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,606|4301|eXtreme to the maX
Nonsense, alcohol doesn't make me depressed, it makes me more awesome than ever.
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uziq
Member
+153|1647
let me know how your biological adaption to alcohol is going. say hi to larry down at the HPB ward for me.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,606|4301|eXtreme to the maX
You're right, I should switch out Pilsner for LSD, LSD never harmed anyone.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-03-18 01:40:25)

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uziq
Member
+153|1647
yeah, great example. not as if couldnt show you any number of alcoholics who are homeless or desperate. i hear delirium tremens is great fun. but oh! a scary man from the 1960s!!! who was a sociopath all his life literally raised as a criminal vagabond. i guess drugs really ARE a problem.

you truly are an idiot.

Last edited by uziq (2019-03-18 05:29:01)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
Fat kid in my class is failing all of his subjects. He is 16 and a half but still a sophomore. His parents are applying for an IEP so that he doesn't fail school.

So I have to fill out paperwork now for his special education application. There are 17 spots for teachers to write long recommendations as well as 6 multiple choice surveys to fill out. This is just so one lazy fat kid doesn't fail school even though his chunky ass doesn't do work.

I have to prepare work for my AP students but am going to now get diverted doing this shit. Special education is a scam.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,780|4827|949

why would you have to prepare work for AP students but get bogged down in filling out IEPs for regular students? Do you teach AP and regular AND special needs classes? What kind of shit school do you teach at?
SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
I can't say which school in the central jersey suburbs I teach at because Jay said he would out me as a monster. I have 5 sections. 3 Freshmen A level. 1 seniors AP. 1 U.S. History 2 B level. B level are the ones with 504's and IEPs. There is a major difference between having down syndrome and just being a bit slower than others. One of my best/favorite students has a 504 plan.

Anyway, the paperwork took like 20 minutes to do and I got it done while my freshmen worked quietly. I am very sorry to have called the student's mother a checks notes oh jeez never mind.
uziq
Member
+153|1647
i'm pretty sure this whole teacher thing is an elaborate troll and macbeth is actually a meth-addicted trucker from newark.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
I am a legit teacher. A great one in fact. Respected and liked by staff and students alike.
uziq
Member
+153|1647
i definitely couldn't be a teacher, so respect to you for that. i'd be like a knockoff version of that half-nelson movie.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+188|1915
Unless you have a bunch of credits in other subjects, you would have to be an English teacher which is NOT worth it. Too much high stakes testing around that. Always people up your ass to see if you are meeting your objectives.

In social studies, I basically get to talk about history with the kids, watch documentaries, and do fun projects.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+707|4880|United States of America
The newest generation of Volkswagen sedans are ugly.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,606|4301|eXtreme to the maX
Bought a new phone
Hardly fits in my pocket

Whats the value of a mint condition iPhone 4s, no scratches or marks, needs a new battery, never updated the OS.
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