oh yeah, so they have laws against that. sorta new, happened last year I think
Last edited by pirana6 (2013-07-12 13:24:11)
ive seen plenty make over 400 in a night and bartenders up to a grand. its absolutely absurd.UnkleRukus wrote:
The problem is, some waiters and waitresses can make 100 bucks a night on tips. Those people would be fucking outraged if their minimum wage went up and weren't allowed tips anymore.
Bartending is a great way to soak up money from college students. People will still tip like $1 or so per drink if they're not dickbags, and it's not exactly hard work popping the lid off a bottle of Bud Light. No fancy mixology shit there.Winston_Churchill wrote:
ive seen plenty make over 400 in a night and bartenders up to a grand. its absolutely absurd.UnkleRukus wrote:
The problem is, some waiters and waitresses can make 100 bucks a night on tips. Those people would be fucking outraged if their minimum wage went up and weren't allowed tips anymore.
Derp.Jay wrote:
Ok Mr. Pink.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Yes, I agree. It isn't fair that people working a legal job should still have to rely on handouts to get by. I wish the federal government luck in stepping in to put a stop to it, because all the bellyaching about it would be riotous. Still, it wouldn't stop me from tipping even if fixed, since I like doing it. I just wouldn't feel a cultural pressure to tip by set amount or percentage, and instead tip what I want. You could call it the humble bacon bundle.
I'm not saying I don't tip. I'm saying that their wages are stupidly low and shouldn't have to be supplemented by tips in order for them to make a living. Is that hard to understand, or do you still think "I don't play ball."
Is it that hard to understand that the price of the food you are buying at the restaurant is lower than it would be if the wait staff was paid a 'living wage' and it ends up being a wash?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Derp.Jay wrote:
Ok Mr. Pink.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Yes, I agree. It isn't fair that people working a legal job should still have to rely on handouts to get by. I wish the federal government luck in stepping in to put a stop to it, because all the bellyaching about it would be riotous. Still, it wouldn't stop me from tipping even if fixed, since I like doing it. I just wouldn't feel a cultural pressure to tip by set amount or percentage, and instead tip what I want. You could call it the humble bacon bundle.
I'm not saying I don't tip. I'm saying that their wages are stupidly low and shouldn't have to be supplemented by tips in order for them to make a living. Is that hard to understand, or do you still think "I don't play ball."
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Maybe we should lower minimum wage to $2.13 across the board and allow tippers to pick up for the loss. But nooo, I'm "Mr. Pink."
so why would americans be bothered by a minimum wage? wouldn't exactly increase the cost of a meal.Jay wrote:
Is it that hard to understand that the price of the food you are buying at the restaurant is lower than it would be if the wait staff was paid a 'living wage' and it ends up being a wash?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Derp.Jay wrote:
Ok Mr. Pink.
I'm not saying I don't tip. I'm saying that their wages are stupidly low and shouldn't have to be supplemented by tips in order for them to make a living. Is that hard to understand, or do you still think "I don't play ball."
You end up paying the same amount for the meal, so what's the difference in the end? For the restaurant, it encourages good behavior on the part of the staff, and it gives the staff incentive to 'up sell'. If they're getting paid a regular wage then they're just like every other wanker with a customer service job: they do the bare minimum to get by until they can fuck off home. When they work for commission or tips they become more invested in the company (in theory) and care more about its success or failure. It's simply profit sharing.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
so why would americans be bothered by a minimum wage? wouldn't exactly increase the cost of a meal.Jay wrote:
Is it that hard to understand that the price of the food you are buying at the restaurant is lower than it would be if the wait staff was paid a 'living wage' and it ends up being a wash?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Derp.
I'm not saying I don't tip. I'm saying that their wages are stupidly low and shouldn't have to be supplemented by tips in order for them to make a living. Is that hard to understand, or do you still think "I don't play ball."
Our system is better than yours, so get over it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Better for the restaurant
Better for both. Waiters at good restaurants make bank.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
tell that to a restaurant worker that has no reliable income and worries about how to make rent on their apartment each month.Jay wrote:
You end up paying the same amount for the meal, so what's the difference in the end? For the restaurant, it encourages good behavior on the part of the staff, and it gives the staff incentive to 'up sell'. If they're getting paid a regular wage then they're just like every other wanker with a customer service job: they do the bare minimum to get by until they can fuck off home. When they work for commission or tips they become more invested in the company (in theory) and care more about its success or failure. It's simply profit sharing.Uzique The Lesser wrote:
so why would americans be bothered by a minimum wage? wouldn't exactly increase the cost of a meal.Jay wrote:
Is it that hard to understand that the price of the food you are buying at the restaurant is lower than it would be if the wait staff was paid a 'living wage' and it ends up being a wash?
Our system is better than yours, so get over it.
also no financial security or ability to budget. sounds shit to me. i'd prefer a minimum wage.
yeh no wonder
you wouldn't be getting a tip from me
you wouldn't be getting a tip from me
id prefer they were paid normally so they'd actually be taxed. getting like 90% of their 'wages' tax free is pretty maddening when the rest of us pay a pretty huge percentage in tax.
They have to declare all tips. They'll be fucked if they're ever audited if they don't.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
You're dreaming if they declare anywhere near all their tips. Average in the industry here is 15-20%
Can still get fucked by an audit, especially if they have the Micros system that everyone but hole in the wall diners use now. They track the servers tables, how big the bills were etc. If the IRS or whoever you have does an audit they count up the total of the bills, multiply by 15% and then compare that to declared income. If it's off, they nail you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i gave your mom a protein tip.Dauntless wrote:
yeh no wonder
you wouldn't be getting a tip from me
disgusting
they can only track what's entered on the till, and most places i've seen (in the uk and us) don't enter everythingJay wrote:
Can still get fucked by an audit, especially if they have the Micros system that everyone but hole in the wall diners use now. They track the servers tables, how big the bills were etc. If the IRS or whoever you have does an audit they count up the total of the bills, multiply by 15% and then compare that to declared income. If it's off, they nail you.
i entered everything.
that doesnt actually work though, since not every diner tips 15% and most places have a tip-sharing program where a percent or two goes to the kitchen, hostesses and bussers.
especially with a bar where most of your purchases are cash - its impossible for anyone to know how much tip you're getting
especially with a bar where most of your purchases are cash - its impossible for anyone to know how much tip you're getting
Every bar I go to has a Micros system behind the bar where they track orders.Winston_Churchill wrote:
that doesnt actually work though, since not every diner tips 15% and most places have a tip-sharing program where a percent or two goes to the kitchen, hostesses and bussers.
especially with a bar where most of your purchases are cash - its impossible for anyone to know how much tip you're getting
Not every diner tips 15%, but on average they do. Usually it's slightly better than that actually.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
basically everywhere has a POS system, yes. but it still doesnt track cash or tip outs. its also entirely possible to be sneaky with them as the credit card readers arent actually connected to the POS system so you don't really need to report your tip into it if you know what you're doing. ive worked with people in the industry that have had 30+ years experience doing this stuff and getting away with it
yeah but not everything goes on that system, especially in bars
it's very common for staff to ring up 1 drink when 3 are ordered - pocket the difference, let alone not declare all the tips on the system
i used to program epos systems (including Micros) a few years ago so i know how they work
by the way Micros is massively expensive compared to other systems so it'd be surprising if every bar had one, can't say i noticed that when i was in ny but you might be right
it's very common for staff to ring up 1 drink when 3 are ordered - pocket the difference, let alone not declare all the tips on the system
i used to program epos systems (including Micros) a few years ago so i know how they work
by the way Micros is massively expensive compared to other systems so it'd be surprising if every bar had one, can't say i noticed that when i was in ny but you might be right
That's baloney. I get good customer service from folks who don't get tips all the fucking time. Service isn't going to collapse like an ant colony bereft of its queen's pheromones if minimum wage is suddenly mandated for the serving industry.Jay wrote:
You end up paying the same amount for the meal, so what's the difference in the end? For the restaurant, it encourages good behavior on the part of the staff, and it gives the staff incentive to 'up sell'. If they're getting paid a regular wage then they're just like every other wanker with a customer service job: they do the bare minimum to get by until they can fuck off home. When they work for commission or tips they become more invested in the company (in theory) and care more about its success or failure. It's simply profit sharing.
Our system is better than yours, so get over it.
What's the motivation? I know it's fantastical, but it's called "keeping your job."
Yeah I'm calling bullshit on "omg no tips no great service anymore"unnamednewbie13 wrote:
That's baloney. I get good customer service from folks who don't get tips all the fucking time. Service isn't going to collapse like an ant colony bereft of its queen's pheromones if minimum wage is suddenly mandated for the serving industry.Jay wrote:
You end up paying the same amount for the meal, so what's the difference in the end? For the restaurant, it encourages good behavior on the part of the staff, and it gives the staff incentive to 'up sell'. If they're getting paid a regular wage then they're just like every other wanker with a customer service job: they do the bare minimum to get by until they can fuck off home. When they work for commission or tips they become more invested in the company (in theory) and care more about its success or failure. It's simply profit sharing.
Our system is better than yours, so get over it.
What's the motivation? I know it's fantastical, but it's called "keeping your job."
People don't really tip in aus unless it's loose change and what not. Wait staff here have generally good service and if they don't customers start leaving. Boss' will still fire wait staff who do a shit job. It's better getting a tip that's not expected rather than one that you know they have to shell out 15% on top.
There's a ton of country's that don't have regular tipping but a 'service charge.' I noticed it's usually asians who have shitty attitudes when being a wait staff (both in asia and in aussieland). Usually its because boss' pay them shit.
