Occupy Wall Street

2011-11-25 19:23:25

#676

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6929

Uzique wrote:
university education here has gone from free to near-$100k average in one generation, too. what have kids born today done that means they should pay so much more than their parents, who probably got through university for free? something is fundamentally wrong with that. education used to be seen as a benefit to society as a whole, and to the workforce. now it's another commodity.

Supply and demand yo. Too many people are going to uni and there is an increase demand by parents for their kids to head off to uni because "i never was in uni you should"

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2011-11-25 19:30:45

#677

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6683

mentioning supply and demand as a theory applicable to education really makes you look intelligent. not. who gives a fuck about supply and demand when it comes to getting a good education? shit like that is what makes a bunch of morons go to law school and get $100k debts thinking that the world needs more lawyers, when they hate the subject and get all the debt to go into a career they don't even like. supply and demand applied to education does nothing except promote a few 'in' subjects for a few years, and then discards them. dumb idea.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-11-25 19:31:00

#678

TimmmmaaaaH: Damn, I... had something for this; +725|6652|Brisbane, Australia

Uzique wrote:
something is fundamentally wrong with that. education used to be seen as a benefit to society as a whole, and to the workforce. now it's another commodity.

This is basically what I am getting at, I don't really know or care about the specifics of the US's tertiary education system. By "privatizing" (this isn't the right word, but close) education costs have sky-rocketed, the actual education has suffered (ie. shitty degree mill schools) and getting a degree is not about in-depth learning of a subject/field but ticking another box on that list that gets you to "great career, rich".

This all comes back to the money above all else mindset - ie. our current hyper-capitalism. I have no solutions and fully expect nothing to change but I don't see how you can ignore pretty clear signs that the economic situation in the US is not great.

https://bf3s.com/sigs/5e6a35c97adb20771c7b713312c0307c23a7a36a.png

2011-11-25 19:41:16

#679

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6929

Uzique wrote:
mentioning supply and demand as a theory applicable to education really makes you look intelligent. not. who gives a fuck about supply and demand when it comes to getting a good education? shit like that is what makes a bunch of morons go to law school and get $100k debts thinking that the world needs more lawyers, when they hate the subject and get all the debt to go into a career they don't even like. supply and demand applied to education does nothing except promote a few 'in' subjects for a few years, and then discards them. dumb idea.

Large influx of students in college = shift in demand = higher equilibrium = higher tuition.

Theres a lot of degree mills now because every parent is pretty much instilling that if their kid doesn't go to college, they become a failure.

2011-11-25 21:28:38

#680

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|6928|US

Uzique wrote:
most poor blacks don't have the privilege of an education to find a voice. i don't have a problem with middle-class intelligent white people speaking up for the disenfranchised - as long as its not patronising or exploitative. how are the truly poor and impoverished meant to find a voice? or have the education to even articulate themselves? most oppressed groups can only express themselves in pure rage, or anti-social or illegal behaviour. and the establishment's reaction to those 'signs' is normally to merely stigmatise and further marginalize the groups with some convenient rationale, e.g. "young black males are just more prone to crime, it's part of their gangster culture". lazy.

Uh, how about voting or maybe volunteering for causes you believe in? Write to your elected representatives. These things can be done by pretty much anyone with a GED, and quite a few people without one. Maybe the GED holder won't be making the next treatise on government, but they can certainly make their opinions known in productive ways.

Thinking that a lack of college-prep style high schools or a 4 year degree makes someone incapable of protesting without resorting to illegal behavior is EXTREMELY patronizing.

2011-11-25 21:45:42

#681

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6683

hey sure if you want to go into an inner city school in the bronx or something and suggest to a bunch of young black males from the projects that their write to their senator about their problems... sure. i'm not being patronizing at all. you're just being unrealistic. of course the educated (primarily white) middle-class intelligentsia are going to be the voice of intelligent opposition. it has nothing to do with patronizing anybody. marginalized, poor people have many other worries and things to be getting on with other than these huge academic, political and ideological debates. all this politics means little to them. especially if they have little faith in the system's ability to provide change and reform (which you seem to have an unwavering faith in).

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-11-25 21:51:41

#682

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6814|132 and Bush

Half of the US population doesn't even vote. They only way to have meaningful change is through legislation. If you're out to protest human nature forget about it.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2011-11-26 04:51:46

#683

HudsonFalcon: Member; +20|6144|New York

Even the half that does vote will pick their candidate in the most uneducated fashion. Obama is a perfect example of this, he drew out voters in record numbers because his hope and change mantra was reflected in the color of his skin and in the power of his speeches. This is more than enough for your common voter who will likely not bother to immerse in the voting record of a particular politician they like or even dislike.

I have no sympathy for the Occupy movement, I view them as people who not only want but expect something for nothing whether that something be free tuition or whatever. I went to college and paid through the nose like many of you here and I expect the same from this generation. I do agree that some parts of our system are broken and in need of fixing but all I hear from their camps are selfish demands from individuals.

2011-11-26 05:32:26

#684

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6624|'Murka

So they protest lack of resources for the homeless and whatnot, then perform actions (occupying public spaces) that leech from those very constrained resources...

The most lack of vision, unstrategic, do fucking nothing movement I've ever seen. They have admirable goals, but are utterly fucking clueless as to any useful method by which to actually attain them. The actions they are taking are only hurting those they claim to represent in the end.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-11-26 07:44:35

#685

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6929

Occupy the W hotel

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report- … nyc-hotel/

2011-11-26 19:39:21

#686

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6319|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
So they protest lack of resources for the homeless and whatnot, then perform actions (occupying public spaces) that leech from those very constrained resources...

The most lack of vision, unstrategic, do fucking nothing movement I've ever seen. They have admirable goals, but are utterly fucking clueless as to any useful method by which to actually attain them. The actions they are taking are only hurting those they claim to represent in the end.

They're protesting various issues but don't yet have crystal clear written solutions to those issues.

Why is this surprising to you? Its the case with practically every protest, campaign group, revolutionary movement or whatever.

Your beloved American revolutionaries didn't have a clear plan, your constitution has always been a work in progress, the Tea Party doesn't have a clear and coherent plan.

Why expect more from OWS?

Fuck Israel

2011-11-26 20:06:22

#687

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|6928|US

D_X, the Declaration of Independence was pretty clear, IMO.
Sure, the Articles of Confederation didn't quite work out, but those were replaced.
________-

hey sure if you want to go into an inner city school in the bronx or something and suggest to a bunch of young black males from the projects that their write to their senator about their problems... sure. i'm not being patronizing at all. you're just being unrealistic. of course the educated (primarily white) middle-class intelligentsia are going to be the voice of intelligent opposition. it has nothing to do with patronizing anybody. marginalized, poor people have many other worries and things to be getting on with other than these huge academic, political and ideological debates. all this politics means little to them. especially if they have little faith in the system's ability to provide change and reform (which you seem to have an unwavering faith in).

I don't really expect them to, because our society doesn't expect it either. I am saying it would work better than some violent lashing out at "the man" which often ends with that person in prison. The things I suggested can be done by any literate person with access to the internet. Do I think it will happen with a decent percentage of people? No, sadly. People don't care enough to use the system. They would rather go outside and scream at people.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2011-11-26 20:06:57)

2011-11-26 21:34:51

#688

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6624|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
So they protest lack of resources for the homeless and whatnot, then perform actions (occupying public spaces) that leech from those very constrained resources...

The most lack of vision, unstrategic, do fucking nothing movement I've ever seen. They have admirable goals, but are utterly fucking clueless as to any useful method by which to actually attain them. The actions they are taking are only hurting those they claim to represent in the end.
They're protesting various issues but don't yet have crystal clear written solutions to those issues.

Why is this surprising to you? Its the case with practically every protest, campaign group, revolutionary movement or whatever.

Your beloved American revolutionaries didn't have a clear plan, your constitution has always been a work in progress, the Tea Party doesn't have a clear and coherent plan.

Why expect more from OWS?

First, I'm rather sick of every criticism of the OWS movement immediately devolving into a comparison with the Tea Party. It's as if the defenders of the OWS movement can't defend the movement on its own merits or something.

Second, to say the Tea Party doesn't have a clear and coherent plan shows either willful or blissful ignorance. Their plan is blatantly obvious.

The OWS movement is so incoherent they take away from the very people and services they claim to represent...because they are more focused on the protest than on actually garnering any real results.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-11-26 23:47:49

#689

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,813|6319|eXtreme to the maX

Yes and every bumpkin wearing a barrel and waving a pitchfork knew exactly what the American revolution was about and where it would end

You complain about people showing pics of illiterate fringe nutballs waving placards at Tea Party rallies and now you're doing the exact same thing saying every comment anyone makes at an OWS rally is exactly what the OWS stands for.

At least OWS can spell.

Fuck Israel

2011-11-27 04:09:10

#690

Chardee MacDennis: Green Man; +130|4767|Always Sunny in Philadelphia

lol just read a story about some college kid who joined the NY occupy idiots and didn't tell anyone so his parents thought he was missing. they finally found him when he used his credit card to buy a bus ticket.

hates banks but uses a credit card? lulz

What is your Spaghetti Policy Here?

What A Long Strange Trip It's Been

2011-11-27 05:27:15

#691

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5571|London, England

TimmmmaaaaH wrote:
Jay wrote:
It's not about the situation you're in now, but the situation you plan on being in down the road. If you have hopes of being wealthy someday you'd be an idiot to advocate higher taxes. So, to turn that around on you, why would a 20 something with their whole life ahead of them throw in the towel and scream for Marxism? Something is missing internally. They have no hope, or they have no drive, or they have no talent. Who gives up so early in life?
If that is really what you think OWS is about then you are either being obtuse or have not payed much attention. Anyone who is behind this movement is not the type to have their life aimed at "being wealthy someday" (what a shit aspiration btw). The movement is about a fairer system that doesn't saddle the majority with debt and give the minority excessive wealth. Associating things like "no talent, no drive" with this movement is extremely inaccurate as well - I am not going to go looking for examples but there are plenty of good ones, people who have 100k+ debts after law/med school and can't find jobs.

You don't have to support OWS to properly understand what they are protesting about - it has nothing to do with being lazy, being on welfare, doing womens studies degrees. These are all talking points established by right-wing commentators (ie. the ones who are politically against the movement) to diminish OWS and "other" them. I am not trying to make anyone change sides or support OWS I just can't stand all the completely inaccurate assertions being made in this thread.

How does the system saddle anyone with excessive debt or give excessive wealth to a minority? Is anyone forced to take on debt? No. I was living in New York City with a paycheck of $3600/month and I still managed to save, on average, $1000/mo. It takes discipline, but it can be done. No one has to buy a home, or has to buy a car with a debt burden attached to it. Those are choices, just like attending an overpriced college when your life goal was to work as a journalist, or at a non-profit, or in fashion, or some other historically low paying industry. I don't have any sympathy for any of these people because they are stupid. If a lawyer can't find a job, tough noogies, they knew going into law school that we graduate way more than replacement level numbers every year and that only the top 5% of any given class go on to make big money.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-11-27 05:33:01

#692

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5571|London, England

TimmmmaaaaH wrote:
Anyone who is behind this movement is not the type to have their life aimed at "being wealthy someday" (what a shit aspiration btw).

I wanted to give this line it's own response.

Just because you have chosen mediocrity for your own life doesn't mean you have the right to foist that on the rest of us. Since when is there something wrong with having motivation to better oneself or be the best? Did you make fun of all the kids in school that got A's? Did you call them suckers because all they needed to get by was a C? That's what you're advocating. Don't try too hard.

I've got news for you little buddy, all those nice wonderful conveniences we have in our lives, from that coffee pot currently tempting me with coffee goodness, to this laptop that I'm replying to you with, it all comes out of the minds and efforts of those try hards you denigrate. So go smoke another bowl and tell all your friends how being poor is cool. How it allows you to understand the Proletariat. Moron.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-11-27 08:48:03

#693

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6624|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes and every bumpkin wearing a barrel and waving a pitchfork knew exactly what the American revolution was about and where it would end

You complain about people showing pics of illiterate fringe nutballs waving placards at Tea Party rallies and now you're doing the exact same thing saying every comment anyone makes at an OWS rally is exactly what the OWS stands for.

At least OWS can spell.

Please...oh PLEASE point to where I've done that.

Every person interviewed from the OWS movement--fringe nutball or otherwise--says the same thing about them not being organized, having no leadership, etc.

Their words--and proud of them, I might add--not mine.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-11-27 12:35:52

#694

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5571|London, England

le sigh. My cousin has taken up the banner of OWS

Post of his on facebook:

The Brooklyn Bridge/Occupy demonstration was what was available to me as a forum to support like minded citizens that are saying, hey, something is wrong here. Until Occupy, a lot of people may have been thinking something's wrong, but no one was saying it. This is just the beginning. The American people are waking up. I'm sure it will manifest in D.C. Soon enough. Wall Street is most definitely a good place to start though. Corporate greed by the financial mob is what got us into this mess. They paid off our representatives to allow all that has happened to happen. Our country is being systematically gutted by design via New World Order decree. The NWO controls Wall Street and the Federal Reserve. They control our politicians. They are suppressing our rights to protest against them. You should support your fellow citizen especially when they simply wish to protect your interests. Once this country and all other countries are reduced to third world status, they will sweep in with a one world government, one world currency as a solution to everyone's problems. People will beg for whatever solution they offer. We will then be under a system of absolute tyranny. You won't be able to work without submitting to their system. This is biblical. I don't want to go there. The fight starts now. When we're all eventually unemployed, we can march on D.C. But then, it will probably be too late. We need to do what we can, when we can, immediately. In this day and age, we can protest from wherever. In deed, we are doing this. This is international. There is one entity affecting all nations. It is not the U.S. Necessarily, but the financial system. A financial system that represents the 1% at the expense of the 99%. it needs to stop.

/facepalm

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-11-27 14:19:49

#695

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,053|6985|PNW

@ above quote

lololol. Stick it to the maaaan, duuuude.

Me, I should probably go Occupy Office for awhile. bbl

2011-11-27 15:35:56

#696

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6945|St. Andrews / Oslo

Cybargs wrote:
Uzique wrote:
university education here has gone from free to near-$100k average in one generation, too. what have kids born today done that means they should pay so much more than their parents, who probably got through university for free? something is fundamentally wrong with that. education used to be seen as a benefit to society as a whole, and to the workforce. now it's another commodity.
Too many people are going to uni

Uhh, says who? You need to get out of your microeconomics-101 shell, not everything in this world is about isolated supply and demand curves..

Why on earth would you complain "Ahh, man, too many people are going to university these days! This madness needs to stop!"? It's ridiculous! There are so many other things I'd rather my government stopped people from doing than going to university.

inb4-degrees-losing-value: what value exactly? How do you measure it? In the knowledge gained, or in average annual salary? The whole idea that too many people going to university makes my degree useless is a silly argument in my opinion. It ruins the idea of a university as a source of knowledge. It's not meant to be about your paycheck. Fuck if I'll support my government stopping people from going to university so that those that actually do get a higher salary - it's bad for the university system in general and it weakens social mobility.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png

2011-11-27 15:42:11

#697

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5571|London, England

I woudn't say that too many people are going to university, that's a pretty silly position to take. I will say that people need to start tempering their expectations for what a college degree can do for their job prospects and lifetime earnings. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expanding ones education, the ego that goes along with it just needs to have its air let out

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-11-27 15:56:23

#698

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6945|St. Andrews / Oslo

Cybargs wrote:
Large influx of students in college = shift in demand = higher equilibrium = higher tuition.

Yes, that is how today's open-markets work, well done.

But does that mean it's how it should be? It's what this entire protest is about - it is a system that is beneficial to the upper classes. They have the money to pay tuition fees, they get degrees, they get jobs with higher average salaries. It is a system that they (the elites) will continue to support and an idea of "this is how the world works, it cannot be done otherwise" that they will continue to endorse. Because they benefit from it. And those that don't benefit believe they are speaking the truth, because that is what they have been told by influential elites. Thinking that functioning under anything other than the framework and system we have now is possible, remember, is silly, immature and irrational (many posts in this thread confirm this idea, along with most of the rest of the world). And we don't want to be that.

But oh well, I'm a student with an iPad, so I guess my point is invalid anyway...

2011-11-27 16:35:54

#699

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6624|'Murka

Jay wrote:
le sigh. My cousin has taken up the banner of OWS

Post of his on facebook:
The Brooklyn Bridge/Occupy demonstration was what was available to me as a forum to support like minded citizens that are saying, hey, something is wrong here. Until Occupy, a lot of people may have been thinking something's wrong, but no one was saying it. This is just the beginning. The American people are waking up. I'm sure it will manifest in D.C. Soon enough. Wall Street is most definitely a good place to start though. Corporate greed by the financial mob is what got us into this mess. They paid off our representatives to allow all that has happened to happen. Our country is being systematically gutted by design via New World Order decree. The NWO controls Wall Street and the Federal Reserve. They control our politicians. They are suppressing our rights to protest against them. You should support your fellow citizen especially when they simply wish to protect your interests. Once this country and all other countries are reduced to third world status, they will sweep in with a one world government, one world currency as a solution to everyone's problems. People will beg for whatever solution they offer. We will then be under a system of absolute tyranny. You won't be able to work without submitting to their system. This is biblical. I don't want to go there. The fight starts now. When we're all eventually unemployed, we can march on D.C. But then, it will probably be too late. We need to do what we can, when we can, immediately. In this day and age, we can protest from wherever. In deed, we are doing this. This is international. There is one entity affecting all nations. It is not the U.S. Necessarily, but the financial system. A financial system that represents the 1% at the expense of the 99%. it needs to stop.
/facepalm

I bet he votes for Ron Paul.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-11-27 17:14:58

#700

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6781|Mountains of NC

Jay wrote:
le sigh. My cousin has taken up the banner of OWS

Post of his on facebook:
The Brooklyn Bridge/Occupy demonstration was what was available to me as a forum to support like minded citizens that are saying, hey, something is wrong here. Until Occupy, a lot of people may have been thinking something's wrong, but no one was saying it. This is just the beginning. The American people are waking up. I'm sure it will manifest in D.C. Soon enough. Wall Street is most definitely a good place to start though. Corporate greed by the financial mob is what got us into this mess. They paid off our representatives to allow all that has happened to happen. Our country is being systematically gutted by design via New World Order decree. The NWO controls Wall Street and the Federal Reserve. They control our politicians. They are suppressing our rights to protest against them. You should support your fellow citizen especially when they simply wish to protect your interests. Once this country and all other countries are reduced to third world status, they will sweep in with a one world government, one world currency as a solution to everyone's problems. People will beg for whatever solution they offer. We will then be under a system of absolute tyranny. You won't be able to work without submitting to their system. This is biblical. I don't want to go there. The fight starts now. When we're all eventually unemployed, we can march on D.C. But then, it will probably be too late. We need to do what we can, when we can, immediately. In this day and age, we can protest from wherever. In deed, we are doing this. This is international. There is one entity affecting all nations. It is not the U.S. Necessarily, but the financial system. A financial system that represents the 1% at the expense of the 99%. it needs to stop.
/facepalm

https://www.tattoodonkey.com/pics/w/o/world-wrestling-entertainment-hulk-hogan-nwo-b-o-tattoodonkey.com.jpg

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

BF2S Forums Occupy Wall Street

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

TimmmmaaaaH wrote:

Jay wrote:

TimmmmaaaaH wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Jay wrote:

Jay wrote:

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