Depression is like that.Macbeth wrote:
I never understood that. I was bullied in the 7th grade and 9th and I never once thought about hurting myself. I always thought of doing worse to the bullies.Did I think about offing myself? Yes.
Why would you take it out on yourself rather than returning it threefold?
I have been dealing with depression my entire life
Meh
Meh
I was never actually bullied really but I did have a point in my life in which I contemplated offing myself. Stuff happens.
There's a huge difference between contemplating it and actually doing it though, I just don't understand the people like the kid in the article who suicide over largely inane, temporary shit like bullying. If anything, to me that says nothing but 'egocentrism', I just can't understand why you would do something like that to your siblings/parents/friends. I kept that in mind and the fact that there are kids out there living in conditions that are infinitely worse.
I don't think the kid in the OP had any chance to begin with if he was that fragile, I'd argue that bubble wrapping him would've done nothing.
There's a huge difference between contemplating it and actually doing it though, I just don't understand the people like the kid in the article who suicide over largely inane, temporary shit like bullying. If anything, to me that says nothing but 'egocentrism', I just can't understand why you would do something like that to your siblings/parents/friends. I kept that in mind and the fact that there are kids out there living in conditions that are infinitely worse.
I don't think the kid in the OP had any chance to begin with if he was that fragile, I'd argue that bubble wrapping him would've done nothing.
inane little opines
This is true. It does not mean that the bullying that lead up to it, and followed it, should be condoned.Shocking wrote:
I was never actually bullied really but I did have a point in my life in which I contemplated offing myself. Stuff happens.
There's a huge difference between contemplating it and actually doing it though, I just don't understand the people like the kid in the article who suicide over largely inane, temporary shit like bullying. If anything, to me that says nothing but 'egocentrism', I just can't understand why you would do something like that to your siblings/parents/friends. I kept that in mind and the fact that there are kids out there living in conditions that are infinitely worse.
I don't think the kid in the OP had any chance to begin with if he was that fragile, I'd argue that bubble wrapping him would've done nothing.
Good for you. That's a bit of an anecdotal argument. You living through bullying and not killing yourself does not mean everyone should be able to "suck it up" and get over it.Macbeth wrote:
I never understood that. I was bullied in the 7th grade and 9th and I never once thought about hurting myself. I always thought of doing worse to the bullies.Did I think about offing myself? Yes.
Why would you take it out on yourself rather than returning it threefold?
This is obviously an extreme case...for fuck sake they cheered after he was dead. This went far beyond "normal" bullying and posturing.
I assume kids take it out on themselves because they are repeatedly told how worthless they are and that they are a waste of space and oxygen. At some point, don't you think they start to believe it? It's easy to look back and tell kids "It gets better", but if you really let yourself remember what life is like at 14/15...every harsh word said to or about you hits like a sword. And, if you are going through something that adds to your emotional and mental stress(like coming out as a homosexual) I would guess that you would be easier to crack.
...
Nah but such incidents are up to schools and parents to solve. The government has nothing to do with this and shouldn't implement some anti-bullying policy because one kid killed himself. At some point life is going to throw some things at you that are a whole lot worse than simple highschool bullying, by that time, if it were to happen you ought to be mentally strong. Being bullied is one of the things that makes people strong.Nic wrote:
This is true. It does not mean that the bullying that lead up to it, and followed it, should be condoned.
If you force everyone to play nice it's going to create a generation with "a deer caught in the headlights look" as SERE put it.
Last edited by Shocking (2011-09-29 11:18:55)
inane little opines
Or you'll create a generation that's akin to a ticking timebomb because you forced them to swallow all "non-nice" things, full of pent up rage and anger.
inane little opines
Moderation Shocking. As with all things, i think there are large grey areas here, like a lot of topics. Extreme cases should be dealt with to keep things from going to far all around. I don't think everyone should be handled with kid gloves all the time, but I don't think "take it bitch!" Is the correct way of dealing with it either.
Looking to the government is asking for a "one size fits all" solution. They cannot discern between what's extreme and what's not, that is wholly up to the people directly involved.
inane little opines
I was 15 when i joined this forum.
everything i write is a ramble and should not be taken seriously.... seriously. ♥
I didnt say anything about one size fits all. What would you propose to do in situations where those involve are not doing anything about it? Letting it get to suicide and cheering it afterwards is an example of great judgement isn't it.
And you've never let the self loathing lead you more into the "end life" mindset than the "analyse problems, make a plan and work towards improving life" mindset?Macbeth wrote:
I have been dealing with depression my entire life
Meh
Grow a set and dish it back to the "bullies".
Most of the bully type have fragile egos, limited intellect, and a poor self image anyways.
Dish it back to them harder than they dish it to you, and you'll own them.
What are they going to do?
Throw a punch, cause a bruise?
So what? it's just pain.
As long as you can keep moving and breathing, pain is just your body telling you "what's up".
Was much easier in the late 80's and early 90's;
Hint: I wasn't there for some push-me push-you homoerotic wrestling session, I was there to break the dipshit that threw the first punch. Nose, jaw, ribs, throat, knees, wrist, skull, arms, whatever.
Now, you'd get thrown in jail for damaging some precious snowflake that truly deserved it.
Most of the bully type have fragile egos, limited intellect, and a poor self image anyways.
Dish it back to them harder than they dish it to you, and you'll own them.
What are they going to do?
Throw a punch, cause a bruise?
So what? it's just pain.
As long as you can keep moving and breathing, pain is just your body telling you "what's up".
Was much easier in the late 80's and early 90's;
- Move to a new school (once a year for me, generally - military brat)
- The "usual suspects" would try to take the measure of the new kid, by seeing if I'd tolerate being bullied.
- Beat the shit out of one or two or three of them, to the point they probably need medical attention.
Hint: I wasn't there for some push-me push-you homoerotic wrestling session, I was there to break the dipshit that threw the first punch. Nose, jaw, ribs, throat, knees, wrist, skull, arms, whatever.
Now, you'd get thrown in jail for damaging some precious snowflake that truly deserved it.
Moderation? The whole goal of anti-bullying activists is to strip out aggression and competitiveness from the human psyche. Then we can live in a utopia and sing kumbaya together while working on our collectivist farms. You've been arguing quite vehemently in favor of legislation throughout this thread. Do you even recognize the source for which you are arguing in favor?Nic wrote:
Moderation Shocking. As with all things, i think there are large grey areas here, like a lot of topics. Extreme cases should be dealt with to keep things from going to far all around. I don't think everyone should be handled with kid gloves all the time, but I don't think "take it bitch!" Is the correct way of dealing with it either.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
rdx-fx wrote:
Grow a set and dish it back to the "bullies".
What can be classified as bullying? Everything. Kid does well on his test, brags about it, he's an intellectual bully. Kid is stronger than another, beats him in a wrestling match, he's a bully. Taken to the extreme, any show of superiority is an act of bullying because that very act is designed to place one above the other.
Pandora's box people. Don't open it for the anti-competitive scum that want everyone brought down to their own level.
Pandora's box people. Don't open it for the anti-competitive scum that want everyone brought down to their own level.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
No you haven't but that's inevitably what you're going to get if you're asking for government intervention.Nic wrote:
I didnt say anything about one size fits all. What would you propose to do in situations where those involve are not doing anything about it? Letting it get to suicide and cheering it afterwards is an example of great judgement isn't it.
I would propose doing nothing about it physically or from a legal point of view. The limit to what the gov could do is run a few ads on TV that spur parents to care for their kids more. As I told you before, bullying ought to be dealt with by the people directly involved, be it the school or parents. I would vehemently oppose any sort of anti bullying law.
inane little opines
Fuck. Had somthing written up on my phone but lost it when I hit the wrong button. May write again later when I'm at my comp.
I can't picture "U R A RETARD" driving me to take my own life, so I'm guessing that the kid was already suicidal. Whether you know they're suicidal or not, prodding like that over the net that isn't obvious joshing between friends is just as bad as yelling "JUMP" to a guy standing outside a window.
Bragging about your test scores or winning a wrestling match can make other kids feel bad about themselves, but it's not the same thing as randomly slugging someone in the hallway or harassing them online.Jay wrote:
What can be classified as bullying? Everything. Kid does well on his test, brags about it, he's an intellectual bully. Kid is stronger than another, beats him in a wrestling match, he's a bully. Taken to the extreme, any show of superiority is an act of bullying because that very act is designed to place one above the other.
Pandora's box people. Don't open it for the anti-competitive scum that want everyone brought down to their own level.
It is precisely the same thing, which is why attempting to legislate away certain behavior is so terrible. Why does one bully another? To put others down in order to feel better about oneself. While bragging about a test score is differentiated by having something tangible to feel better than others about, the effect is the same.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I can't picture "U R A RETARD" driving me to take my own life, so I'm guessing that the kid was already suicidal. Whether you know they're suicidal or not, prodding like that over the net that isn't obvious joshing between friends is just as bad as yelling "JUMP" to a guy standing outside a window.Bragging about your test scores or winning a wrestling match can make other kids feel bad about themselves, but it's not the same thing as randomly slugging someone in the hallway or harassing them online.Jay wrote:
What can be classified as bullying? Everything. Kid does well on his test, brags about it, he's an intellectual bully. Kid is stronger than another, beats him in a wrestling match, he's a bully. Taken to the extreme, any show of superiority is an act of bullying because that very act is designed to place one above the other.
Pandora's box people. Don't open it for the anti-competitive scum that want everyone brought down to their own level.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
This. It clearly isn't a simple case of being taunted in the schoolyard with a few names - we do not know the extent of the bullying but clearly these little fuckers have absolutely no care in the world for others and would have picked on this kid relentlessly and without remorse. Where is the repercussions for their actions?tuckergustav wrote:
Good for you. That's a bit of an anecdotal argument. You living through bullying and not killing yourself does not mean everyone should be able to "suck it up" and get over it.Macbeth wrote:
I never understood that. I was bullied in the 7th grade and 9th and I never once thought about hurting myself. I always thought of doing worse to the bullies.Did I think about offing myself? Yes.
Why would you take it out on yourself rather than returning it threefold?
This is obviously an extreme case...for fuck sake they cheered after he was dead. This went far beyond "normal" bullying and posturing.
I assume kids take it out on themselves because they are repeatedly told how worthless they are and that they are a waste of space and oxygen. At some point, don't you think they start to believe it? It's easy to look back and tell kids "It gets better", but if you really let yourself remember what life is like at 14/15...every harsh word said to or about you hits like a sword. And, if you are going through something that adds to your emotional and mental stress(like coming out as a homosexual) I would guess that you would be easier to crack.
You can't legislate against bad behaviour, who's suggesting that and how can you do that? There should be consequences though for bullying that are deterrents, rather than wait for these behaviours to become ingrained into these kids so they grow up to become fuckwits who either become that moron who picks you at the bar with his mates for no reason. Or that arsehole cop that pulls you over and tries to fuck you big time for the sake of having some authority over you, etc.
He was 15. Not 5. In less than 12 months hes finished school and can get a job and have his own kids. How emotionally underdeveloped do you think 15 year olds are?
It is the parents of the bullies and the victims that are at fault here (I know we aren't allowed to blame parents...boo). Parenting is about imparting life skills on your kids, something in which they have clearly failed. Could the kid not talk to them? I dont know, anything here would be pure speculation but life can be far worse than bullying ffs. As for the bullies parents theres clearly a failing to impart any sort of morality at all which isnt really acceptable but is becoming more common (?).
End of the day what are you going to do? Throw them in prison? How many people do you think will hire somebody convicted of "bullying"? Probably not many. How many instances of "bullying" do you think it will prevent? The appropriate consequences should have been expulsion a long time before it got this far, this is clearly a school / parent issue as it is not up to the government to expel people.
It is the parents of the bullies and the victims that are at fault here (I know we aren't allowed to blame parents...boo). Parenting is about imparting life skills on your kids, something in which they have clearly failed. Could the kid not talk to them? I dont know, anything here would be pure speculation but life can be far worse than bullying ffs. As for the bullies parents theres clearly a failing to impart any sort of morality at all which isnt really acceptable but is becoming more common (?).
End of the day what are you going to do? Throw them in prison? How many people do you think will hire somebody convicted of "bullying"? Probably not many. How many instances of "bullying" do you think it will prevent? The appropriate consequences should have been expulsion a long time before it got this far, this is clearly a school / parent issue as it is not up to the government to expel people.
He was gay. Did you read the article?Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
He was 15. Not 5. In less than 12 months hes finished school and can get a job and have his own kids. How emotionally underdeveloped do you think 15 year olds are?
Abuse in the workplace is generally not tolerated at all.
Teenagers are at a pretty emotionally fragile time in their lives. They're experiencing all sorts of emotions they've never had to deal with before and for the average teen these are pretty extreme. Chuck in a whole bunch of external peer pressures and abuse into the mix... yeah, not cool at all. But I do think the parents are accountable on some level. And I'm not saying the kid was above some personal responsibility for his actions, but it must be pretty extreme for someone to take their own life.It is the parents of the bullies and the victims that are at fault here (I know we aren't allowed to blame parents...boo). Parenting is about imparting life skills on your kids, something in which they have clearly failed. Could the kid not talk to them? I dont know, anything here would be pure speculation but life can be far worse than bullying ffs. As for the bullies parents theres clearly a failing to impart any sort of morality at all which isnt really acceptable but is becoming more common (?).
Never said it was a governmental issue, nor prisons (LOL). Just they should be held more accountable than they already are - it's not my responsibility to come up with the answers, it's the parents and schools and probably a few other people too.End of the day what are you going to do? Throw them in prison? How many people do you think will hire somebody convicted of "bullying"? Probably not many. How many instances of "bullying" do you think it will prevent? The appropriate consequences should have been expulsion a long time before it got this far, this is clearly a school / parent issue as it is not up to the government to expel people.
School ends at 17-18 here, not 16.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
He was 15. Not 5. In less than 12 months hes finished school and can get a job and have his own kids. How emotionally underdeveloped do you think 15 year olds are?
It is the parents of the bullies and the victims that are at fault here (I know we aren't allowed to blame parents...boo). Parenting is about imparting life skills on your kids, something in which they have clearly failed. Could the kid not talk to them? I dont know, anything here would be pure speculation but life can be far worse than bullying ffs. As for the bullies parents theres clearly a failing to impart any sort of morality at all which isnt really acceptable but is becoming more common (?).
End of the day what are you going to do? Throw them in prison? How many people do you think will hire somebody convicted of "bullying"? Probably not many. How many instances of "bullying" do you think it will prevent? The appropriate consequences should have been expulsion a long time before it got this far, this is clearly a school / parent issue as it is not up to the government to expel people.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
School ends around 17-18 in england and aussie too, but you have an option of not continuing on school after grade 10. In England they have something called 6th form after grade 10 which is grade 11/12Jay wrote:
School ends at 17-18 here, not 16.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
He was 15. Not 5. In less than 12 months hes finished school and can get a job and have his own kids. How emotionally underdeveloped do you think 15 year olds are?
It is the parents of the bullies and the victims that are at fault here (I know we aren't allowed to blame parents...boo). Parenting is about imparting life skills on your kids, something in which they have clearly failed. Could the kid not talk to them? I dont know, anything here would be pure speculation but life can be far worse than bullying ffs. As for the bullies parents theres clearly a failing to impart any sort of morality at all which isnt really acceptable but is becoming more common (?).
End of the day what are you going to do? Throw them in prison? How many people do you think will hire somebody convicted of "bullying"? Probably not many. How many instances of "bullying" do you think it will prevent? The appropriate consequences should have been expulsion a long time before it got this far, this is clearly a school / parent issue as it is not up to the government to expel people.
