Ok I just read 2 different accounts here. Did he do this for political reasons IE immigration, or did he do this in the name of Christianity? Which is it?Kmar wrote:
mystery bf2ser wrote:
lowing says in the d&st thread "why are you guys entertaining him by reading his manifesto?" maybe you'd like to enlighten him that the last 300 pages of the manifesto explicitly states a christian motivation for the attack..
In the context of European white nationalism those things are essentially the same.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
Ummmm no, because here the white supremacists hate minorities as well, but there is nothing "Christian" about there hate. THey do it to "save America" not to spread the word of Jesus.presidentsheep wrote:
In the context of European white nationalism those things are essentially the same.
I know I know, everyone wants this to be a religious based attack, so they can finally scream "Christians do it tooooooo".. but if this guy did not do it in the name of Jesus and or Christianity, and he did it to "SAVE NORWAY", like your own Timothy McViegh, then they are not the same thing as screaming "Allah Ackbar",and leaving koran quotes to justify your actions. Sorry.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-24 10:48:06)
How many pages is your compendium lowing?
Going by that entry alone, this guy is a deluded moron.Kmar wrote:
Which makes you think .. who else knew of his intent?jord wrote:
I'm about half way through, he really was very dedicated...
http://i.imgur.com/v5Ebh.jpg
inane little opines
The far-right white supremacist groups in Europe are always Christian, and often claim to be standing up for "Christian values" (whether or not they are is an entirely different matter, as with Islamic extremists), to them the idea of nationalism and Christianity are intertwined.lowing wrote:
Ummmm no, because here the white supremacists hate minorities as well, but there is nothing "Christian" about there hate. THey do it to "save America" not to spread the word of Jesus.presidentsheep wrote:
In the context of European white nationalism those things are essentially the same.
In this case the guy did what he did to protest against immigration, particularly by Muslims. The attack was carried out on a government building and a political youth camp run by the current party in power there, now whilst the targets themselves are obviously political the reasons for the attack are not. This is not purely a case of someone disagreeing with government policy, this is racially and religiously motivated.
He (the attacker) defines himself as Christian, he appears in a 12 minute long anti-Muslim video. Most importantly he wrote a 1500 page essay against Muslims, whilst claiming to support "The Knights Templar" - a Christian organisation.
Doesn't get more obviously religious than that.
I would bet that had this been carried out by someone who was a Muslim, certain elements of this forum would be instantly claiming it was religiously motivated, when in certain cases the links are less obvious than this.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
No not really, only time that happens is when the assailants are screaming Islamic bullshit while they carry out their attack. This guy, although "religious" made a political attack not a religious one. The 2 are not intertwined necessarily. If in that 1500 pages he stated the message of Jesus is to get rid of minorities and he did so in the name of Jesus. THen you have a religous based attack. Hell he wasn't even killing Muslims was he? He was pissed at the govt. and killed people from the opposing political party to his beliefs.presidentsheep wrote:
The far-right white supremacist groups in Europe are always Christian, and often claim to be standing up for "Christian values" (whether or not they are is an entirely different matter, as with Islamic extremists), to them the idea of nationalism and Christianity are intertwined.lowing wrote:
Ummmm no, because here the white supremacists hate minorities as well, but there is nothing "Christian" about there hate. THey do it to "save America" not to spread the word of Jesus.presidentsheep wrote:
In the context of European white nationalism those things are essentially the same.
In this case the guy did what he did to protest against immigration, particularly by Muslims. The attack was carried out on a government building and a political youth camp run by the current party in power there, now whilst the targets themselves are obviously political the reasons for the attack are not. This is not purely a case of someone disagreeing with government policy, this is racially and religiously motivated.
He (the attacker) defines himself as Christian, he appears in a 12 minute long anti-Muslim video. Most importantly he wrote a 1500 page essay against Muslims, whilst claiming to support "The Knights Templar" - a Christian organisation.
Doesn't get more obviously religious than that.
I would bet that had this been carried out by someone who was a Muslim, certain elements of this forum would be instantly claiming it was religiously motivated, when in certain cases the links are less obvious than this.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-24 11:28:39)
I don't think he's a moron.Shocking wrote:
Going by that entry alone, this guy is a deluded moron.Kmar wrote:
Which makes you think .. who else knew of his intent?jord wrote:
I'm about half way through, he really was very dedicated...
http://i.imgur.com/v5Ebh.jpg
youre a member of the bnp, of course you dont
Tu Stultus Es
Haha
To add to the first part on the above ^, the fact that Muslim terrorists like to shout Allah Akbar doesn't mean their primary motivation to fight the western powers is faith. They have a grudge against the western societies and truly hate it for many reasons, not all of them unjustified. As I told you before 'faith' is a background issue. A tool used to influence and indoctrinate. As it has always been. The religious leaders within these terror groups simply project their own hatred unto their deity.. "I hate the west" becomes "Allah hates the west", I reckon it's a powerful recruiting tool in a society where religion is still very, very relevant.presidentsheep wrote:
The far-right white supremacist groups in Europe are always Christian, and often claim to be standing up for "Christian values" (whether or not they are is an entirely different matter, as with Islamic extremists), to them the idea of nationalism and Christianity are intertwined.lowing wrote:
Ummmm no, because here the white supremacists hate minorities as well, but there is nothing "Christian" about there hate. THey do it to "save America" not to spread the word of Jesus.presidentsheep wrote:
In the context of European white nationalism those things are essentially the same.
In this case the guy did what he did to protest against immigration, particularly by Muslims. The attack was carried out on a government building and a political youth camp run by the current party in power there, now whilst the targets themselves are obviously political the reasons for the attack are not. This is not purely a case of someone disagreeing with government policy, this is racially and religiously motivated.
He (the attacker) defines himself as Christian, he appears in a 12 minute long anti-Muslim video. Most importantly he wrote a 1500 page essay against Muslims, whilst claiming to support "The Knights Templar" - a Christian organisation.
Doesn't get more obviously religious than that.
I would bet that had this been carried out by someone who was a Muslim, certain elements of this forum would be instantly claiming it was religiously motivated, when in certain cases the links are less obvious than this.
He believes the public will be supportive of terror attacks. Assuming what he did was his personal idea of 'how it should be done', I don't see many people being empathetic towards those who massacre children and young adults. "Courageous action against the multicultural alliance will inspire admiration and respect" gimme a break this guy is a blithering idiot.Jord wrote:
I don't think he's a moron.
Last edited by Shocking (2011-07-24 11:27:14)
inane little opines
Obviously what he did isn't going to garner any support for his "cause" but I don't think he's an idiot. The preperation document that there's a link for somewhere here demonstrates that.Shocking wrote:
To add to the first part on the above ^, the fact that Muslim terrorists like to shout Allah Akbar doesn't mean their primary motivation to fight the western powers is faith. They have a grudge against the western societies and truly hate it for many reasons, not all of them unjustified. As I told you before 'faith' is a background issue. A tool used to influence and indoctrinate. As it has always been. The religious leaders within these terror groups simply project their own hatred unto their deity.. "I hate the west" becomes "Allah hates the west", I reckon it's a powerful recruiting tool in a society where religion is still very, very relevant.presidentsheep wrote:
The far-right white supremacist groups in Europe are always Christian, and often claim to be standing up for "Christian values" (whether or not they are is an entirely different matter, as with Islamic extremists), to them the idea of nationalism and Christianity are intertwined.lowing wrote:
Ummmm no, because here the white supremacists hate minorities as well, but there is nothing "Christian" about there hate. THey do it to "save America" not to spread the word of Jesus.
In this case the guy did what he did to protest against immigration, particularly by Muslims. The attack was carried out on a government building and a political youth camp run by the current party in power there, now whilst the targets themselves are obviously political the reasons for the attack are not. This is not purely a case of someone disagreeing with government policy, this is racially and religiously motivated.
He (the attacker) defines himself as Christian, he appears in a 12 minute long anti-Muslim video. Most importantly he wrote a 1500 page essay against Muslims, whilst claiming to support "The Knights Templar" - a Christian organisation.
Doesn't get more obviously religious than that.
I would bet that had this been carried out by someone who was a Muslim, certain elements of this forum would be instantly claiming it was religiously motivated, when in certain cases the links are less obvious than this.He believes the public will be supportive of terror attacks. Assuming what he did was his personal idea of 'how it should be done', I don't see many people being empathetic towards those who massacre children and young adults. "Courageous action against the multicultural alliance will inspire admiration and respect" gimme a break this guy is a blithering idiot.Jord wrote:
I don't think he's a moron.
and what is his "cause?" Is it a holy war, or an immigration war?jord wrote:
Obviously what he did isn't going to garner any support for his "cause" but I don't think he's an idiot. The preperation document that there's a link for somewhere here demonstrates that.Shocking wrote:
To add to the first part on the above ^, the fact that Muslim terrorists like to shout Allah Akbar doesn't mean their primary motivation to fight the western powers is faith. They have a grudge against the western societies and truly hate it for many reasons, not all of them unjustified. As I told you before 'faith' is a background issue. A tool used to influence and indoctrinate. As it has always been. The religious leaders within these terror groups simply project their own hatred unto their deity.. "I hate the west" becomes "Allah hates the west", I reckon it's a powerful recruiting tool in a society where religion is still very, very relevant.presidentsheep wrote:
The far-right white supremacist groups in Europe are always Christian, and often claim to be standing up for "Christian values" (whether or not they are is an entirely different matter, as with Islamic extremists), to them the idea of nationalism and Christianity are intertwined.
In this case the guy did what he did to protest against immigration, particularly by Muslims. The attack was carried out on a government building and a political youth camp run by the current party in power there, now whilst the targets themselves are obviously political the reasons for the attack are not. This is not purely a case of someone disagreeing with government policy, this is racially and religiously motivated.
He (the attacker) defines himself as Christian, he appears in a 12 minute long anti-Muslim video. Most importantly he wrote a 1500 page essay against Muslims, whilst claiming to support "The Knights Templar" - a Christian organisation.
Doesn't get more obviously religious than that.
I would bet that had this been carried out by someone who was a Muslim, certain elements of this forum would be instantly claiming it was religiously motivated, when in certain cases the links are less obvious than this.He believes the public will be supportive of terror attacks. Assuming what he did was his personal idea of 'how it should be done', I don't see many people being empathetic towards those who massacre children and young adults. "Courageous action against the multicultural alliance will inspire admiration and respect" gimme a break this guy is a blithering idiot.Jord wrote:
I don't think he's a moron.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-24 11:39:15)
Well yes I agree that his attacks were prepared quite well but I refuse to call him intelligent. He was extremely dedicated to his cause, learned how to use the internet, put 2 and 2 togheter and figured out how to make a bomb and where he could kill as many people as possible. I really don't feel this requires someone to be exceptionally intelligent.
inane little opines
I never said he was exceptionally intelligent, I said he wasn't a moron.Shocking wrote:
Well yes I agree that his attacks were prepared quite well but I refuse to call him intelligent. He was extremely dedicated to his cause, learned how to use the internet, put 2 and 2 togheter and figured out how to make a bomb and where he could kill as many people as possible. I really don't feel this requires someone to be exceptionally intelligent.
On an analytical and social level he most definitely is.
inane little opines
It's quite obvious that if you read his "Knights Templar Blog" that he believes it to be both.lowing wrote:
and what is his "cause?" Is it a holy war, or an immigration war?jord wrote:
Obviously what he did isn't going to garner any support for his "cause" but I don't think he's an idiot. The preperation document that there's a link for somewhere here demonstrates that.Shocking wrote:
To add to the first part on the above ^, the fact that Muslim terrorists like to shout Allah Akbar doesn't mean their primary motivation to fight the western powers is faith. They have a grudge against the western societies and truly hate it for many reasons, not all of them unjustified. As I told you before 'faith' is a background issue. A tool used to influence and indoctrinate. As it has always been. The religious leaders within these terror groups simply project their own hatred unto their deity.. "I hate the west" becomes "Allah hates the west", I reckon it's a powerful recruiting tool in a society where religion is still very, very relevant.
He believes the public will be supportive of terror attacks. Assuming what he did was his personal idea of 'how it should be done', I don't see many people being empathetic towards those who massacre children and young adults. "Courageous action against the multicultural alliance will inspire admiration and respect" gimme a break this guy is a blithering idiot.
You really don't seem to understand the European far right movement.
edit: blog also reveals him to be pretty fucking insane to.
Last edited by presidentsheep (2011-07-24 12:35:47)
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
nope guess not, because immigration is not a religious issue. It is a political issue. By all reports this guy had a problem with all immigration into Norway,but especially Muslim immigration. That is to say he has a problem with immigration but since apparently Muslims are the ones doing the majority of immigrating there,he ESPECIALLY has a problem with them. It also sounds like he has a problem with your govt's acceptance of immigrants. Again, that is political not religious.presidentsheep wrote:
It's quite obvious that if you read his "Knights Templar Blog" that he believes it to be both.lowing wrote:
and what is his "cause?" Is it a holy war, or an immigration war?jord wrote:
Obviously what he did isn't going to garner any support for his "cause" but I don't think he's an idiot. The preperation document that there's a link for somewhere here demonstrates that.
You really don't seem to understand the European far right movement.
edit: blog also reveals him to be pretty fucking insane to.
I would also have to say his targeting of people of his opposite political point of view is a clue that this is political and not religious. Doesn't really matter though, those people are dead and he is still a dick.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-24 12:43:13)
How so?Shocking wrote:
On an analytical and social level he most definitely is.
Why can't it be both? He posted a bunch of anti-Islamic material on the net and declared himself a Christian right before the attacks.lowing wrote:
nope guess not, because immigration is not a religious issue. It is a political issue. By all reports this guy had a problem with all immigration into Norway,but especially Muslim immigration. That is to say he has a problem with immigration but since apparently Muslims are the ones doing the majority of immigrating there,he ESPECIALLY has a problem with them. It also sounds like he has a problem with your govt's acceptance of immigrants. Again, that is political not religious.presidentsheep wrote:
It's quite obvious that if you read his "Knights Templar Blog" that he believes it to be both.lowing wrote:
and what is his "cause?" Is it a holy war, or an immigration war?
You really don't seem to understand the European far right movement.
edit: blog also reveals him to be pretty fucking insane to.
I would also have to say his targeting of people of his opposite political point of view is a clue that this is political and not religious. Doesn't really matter though, those people are dead and he is still a dick.
Read the first two alineas of this excerpt (posted by kmar on the last page):Jaekus wrote:
How so?Shocking wrote:
On an analytical and social level he most definitely is.
I don't know under what sort of rock or in what kind of society he's been living but his expectations are completely and utterly wrong. Ignorant on the history of terrorism vs the west and even less knowledgeable on basic principles in our society. Empathy for terrorism? wat...
Last edited by Shocking (2011-07-24 13:56:46)
inane little opines
I'm not sure how you can equate a deluded notion of the world with lack of intelligence tbh.
His actions to orchestrate all this show he's a reasonably intelligent person IMO.
His actions to orchestrate all this show he's a reasonably intelligent person IMO.
Gear queer.menzo wrote:
Damn good write up here from Charlie Brooker in the guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … s-killings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … s-killings