Exactly. Not anymore especially after deng xiao ping stepped in.AussieReaper wrote:
It was a few decades ago.Cybargs wrote:
China isn't centrally planned.AussieReaper wrote:
What I'm advocating is competing against the centrally planned economies. What is your solution? A total open and free market?
Centrally planned economies are by default non-competitive. What is China beating us in? Having cheap labor? Ok.AussieReaper wrote:
What I'm advocating is competing against the centrally planned economies. What is your solution? A total open and free market?Jay wrote:
So now you're advocating centrally planned economies? Except neither of those countries had one. You're batting 1.000 today Reaps.AussieReaper wrote:
That and after the war they had some rebuilding to do and were able to plan alittle. Much like japan.
Balances of trade are largely irrelevant. They're just a super easy concept that television journalists can break out when talking about economics to the population at large. The super easy concept part is why it is mentioned, not because it really means anything.Dilbert_X wrote:
Instead of falling over themselves to move their jobs to China they're trying to keep China playing fair? Sounds like a plan.
In the meantime they have a positive balance of trade.
Last edited by Jay (2011-07-23 05:49:22)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of … e_deficitsProf. Friedman argued that trade deficits are not necessarily important as high exports raise the value of the currency, reducing aforementioned exports, and vice versa for imports, thus naturally removing trade deficits not due to investment. Since 1971, when the Nixon administration decided to abolish fixed exchange rates, America's Current Account accumulated trade deficits have totaled $7.75 Trillion as of 2010. This deficit exists as it is matched by investment coming in to the United States- purely by the definition of the balance of payments, any current account deficit that exists is matched by an inflow of foreign investment.
Last edited by Jay (2011-07-23 05:52:53)
yes, but we were talking about China and their shady trading practices....Have we moved on from that? or is the whole world engaging in shady trading practices?Kmar wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/STaoV.jpglowing wrote:
I see no mention that these jobs are going to China.Kmar wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html
But the bulk of the actual money goes there, never to return.Jay wrote:
The profit all comes back here. Who cares about the pittance the workers make fabricating circuit boards? The design, marketing etc is all done here. Those are the high paying jobs, not the line jobs.Dilbert_X wrote:
I don't buy this theory.Jay wrote:
More scaremongering and misinformation from the MSNBC crowd. Yes, every American drives a 10 mpg SUV and is fat. Yes, when money gets spent it gets locked in a vault in the other countries treasury. That money doesn't get spent elsewhere and float around in the global economy, eventually ending up back where it started. Trade is trade. We buy Chinese trash, they buy our computers and financial services. Even if they don't, they buy metal from Australia and Australians buy American computers and we get the money back that way. Money isn't static.
If its right why is the US fucked?
Does the US even make computers any more?
5% of a Dell going to the US and 95% going to China doesn't count.
If they 'spike the value of the euro', which is hard to do seeing as they don't control it, it makes no difference to within eurozone trade, makes imports more attractive compared with German goods, and makes it harder for ze Germans to export outside the eurozone. Doesn't sound too brilliant to me.Which essentially means that Germany is rich largely because it talked everyone else in Europe into sharing a currency with itself. They spike the value of the Euro and the rest of Europe can't sell competitively. Brilliant move on their part.
Have fun wallowing in your ignoranceBeen fun gents. I'm off to the Hamptons for the weekend. Tootles.
Might want to become a little more informed on this topic jay. Companies are moving r&d departments to china too. You'll find that design and build is also done in china.Jay wrote:
The profit all comes back here. Who cares about the pittance the workers make fabricating circuit boards? The design, marketing etc is all done here. Those are the high paying jobs, not the line jobs.Dilbert_X wrote:
I don't buy this theory.Jay wrote:
More scaremongering and misinformation from the MSNBC crowd. Yes, every American drives a 10 mpg SUV and is fat. Yes, when money gets spent it gets locked in a vault in the other countries treasury. That money doesn't get spent elsewhere and float around in the global economy, eventually ending up back where it started. Trade is trade. We buy Chinese trash, they buy our computers and financial services. Even if they don't, they buy metal from Australia and Australians buy American computers and we get the money back that way. Money isn't static.
If its right why is the US fucked?
Does the US even make computers any more?
5% of a Dell going to the US and 95% going to China doesn't count.
so, is that iphone 4 a "cheap POS made in china or some novelty item"? or were you just talking out of your ass?lowing wrote:
Then buy a Motorola?Jaekus wrote:
I'm posting this from my iPhone 4.lowing wrote:
I can not think of a single legitimate consumer product that was not a cheap POS made in china or some novelty item.
On the back it reads "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China"
invented, developed, refined, everywhere else, slapping it together in china does not make it chinese.........does it?Reciprocity wrote:
so, is that iphone 4 a "cheap POS made in china or some novelty item"? or were you just talking out of your ass?lowing wrote:
Then buy a Motorola?Jaekus wrote:
I'm posting this from my iPhone 4.
On the back it reads "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China"
Most (if not all) Apple products are created by Foxconn in China. Just because they were designed in California does not mean they were made there. If a car is designed in a room in Texas, but assembled by a factory in Detroit, that doesn't mean it was made in Texas.lowing wrote:
invented, developed, refined, everywhere else, slapping it together in china does not make it chinese.........does it?Reciprocity wrote:
so, is that iphone 4 a "cheap POS made in china or some novelty item"? or were you just talking out of your ass?lowing wrote:
Then buy a Motorola?
I thought Apple was an American company, along with intel and microsoft. all the little shit that makes your iphone an iphone. Apple is a Chinese company? Ok I stand corrected. Cheap plastic slapped together in China makes an iphone Chinese.Poseidon wrote:
Most (if not all) Apple products are created by Foxconn in China. Just because they were designed in California does not mean they were made there. If a car is designed in a room in Texas, but assembled by a factory in Detroit, that doesn't mean it was made in Texas.lowing wrote:
invented, developed, refined, everywhere else, slapping it together in china does not make it chinese.........does it?Reciprocity wrote:
so, is that iphone 4 a "cheap POS made in china or some novelty item"? or were you just talking out of your ass?
Why do you have such a difficult time admitting when you're wrong? It doesn't matter if the company itself is based in America, the actual products are made in China. The parts are assembled in China, it leaves the factory and is shipped to stores from China, so yes, Apple products are made in China. Doesn't matter where the company is headquartered. Headquarters =/= factories.lowing wrote:
I thought Apple was an American company, along with intel and microsoft. all the little shit that makes your iphone an iphone. Apple is a Chinese company? Ok I stand corrected. Cheap plastic slapped together in China makes an iphone Chinese.Poseidon wrote:
Most (if not all) Apple products are created by Foxconn in China. Just because they were designed in California does not mean they were made there. If a car is designed in a room in Texas, but assembled by a factory in Detroit, that doesn't mean it was made in Texas.lowing wrote:
invented, developed, refined, everywhere else, slapping it together in china does not make it chinese.........does it?
I have no problem admitting I am wrong when I think I am wrong. Fact is, Apple, microsoft, intel, ATT, Verizon etc. are not chinese companies, the parts are not chinese unless china is cranking out microchips and circuit boards for these phones. THe technology is not china, the R and D is not chinese and the refinement is not chinese. They are American products, that are slapped together in China. Just because my Honda is slapped together in Marysville Ohio, it does not mean I bought an American product. I am a proud owner of a Japanese product.Poseidon wrote:
Why do you have such a difficult time admitting when you're wrong? It doesn't matter if the company itself is based in America, the actual products are made in China. The parts are assembled in China, it leaves the factory and is shipped to stores from China, so yes, Apple products are made in China. Doesn't matter where the company is headquartered. Headquarters =/= factories.lowing wrote:
I thought Apple was an American company, along with intel and microsoft. all the little shit that makes your iphone an iphone. Apple is a Chinese company? Ok I stand corrected. Cheap plastic slapped together in China makes an iphone Chinese.Poseidon wrote:
Most (if not all) Apple products are created by Foxconn in China. Just because they were designed in California does not mean they were made there. If a car is designed in a room in Texas, but assembled by a factory in Detroit, that doesn't mean it was made in Texas.
China has developed and manufactured the circuit boards for the Iphone? Well as I already said, I stand corrected, the Iphone is chinese I guess. SO don't buy one of you are weary of China's shady trading practices.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
china is cranking out microchips and circuit boards for the phones.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-23 15:22:05)
I have no problem with any company that sends their shit out to be put together. It is smart business. If govts. are going to rape companies so much than it actually becomes cheaper to build your factory halfway around the world and ship all of your shit so be it. Blame the govt. not the company.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
there's also some japanese and american made components in there too. but the fact is the product is not manufactured in the US - and the fact that manufacturing jobs are outsourced to outside countries where labor is cheaper and human rights/workers rights are lacking is something we should be worried about. It's a widely discussed topic that there is a direct correlation with the fall of American dominance and the outsourcing of american manufacturing jobs since the 1960s. This decreases the power of our economy and the value of the dollar as a whole. It means less money is circulated within the american economy. Add that to what Kmar said about the unfair compettition and unequal trade regulations in foreign countries and you can see where govenrment is in a position where it might need to step in. Japanese industry is heavily assissted from their governemnt. Personally I don't think the US can bear waiting until those standards of living rise higher than the associated costs of manufacturing outside of the country (things like customs duties and transit costs), which is why I advocate intelligent government intervention into international trade. Things like a local manufacturing subsidy would go very far in lowering unemployment and increasing spending into the economy. It sure as hell beats paying citizens and large agribusiness millions of dollars not to grow corn.
