To paraphrase..lowing wrote:
How bout you ninja, you keep asking me why the US has a higher crime rate and prison population. I gave an opinion. Now why don't you tell me why you think the US has a higher crime rate and prison problem. WHile yo are at it, tell me how you would stem the tide of illegal immigration into America tossing them into ovens roll
Or will do you just feel safer continuously criticizing everyone elses opinions, without offering any of your on on the topic? Like Jaekus and company does?
As is proved by the extract below and your decision to completely ignore the whole post that you instructed me to make (again).Jaekus wrote:
I've offered plenty and you've either ignored them, taken them completely out of context or totally misunderstood.
I made no such claim (see above) I simply informed you about a law that Germany had. I didnt say Americans are Nazis, I didnt say omg your as bad as Hitler derp. I made no comparison other than offering a simple fact. However the correlation appear so strong to you that I must have been calling America Nazis.lowing wrote:
Nope the irony is you take one of the most if not THE most free and tolerant societies in the world, and claim it is like Nazi Germany, all over the audacity of trying to stem the ILLEGAL immigration crisis we face. Especially since it is Europe and not the US, that has spawned such leadership as Mussolini Hitler and Stalin. and which ones were actually elected?
After reading that bullshit I saw no reason to entertain whatever other smart ass/irrational observations you had.
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-07-21 09:36:29)
You can say whatever you want, fact is, you have never committed to anything that resembles a reason as to why YOU think our crime is so high, and I am not talking about bullshit possession charges, we have been through that. I am talking about violent crime. OS tell me again. WHy do you think we have high crime?Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
To paraphrase..lowing wrote:
How bout you ninja, you keep asking me why the US has a higher crime rate and prison population. I gave an opinion. Now why don't you tell me why you think the US has a higher crime rate and prison problem. WHile yo are at it, tell me how you would stem the tide of illegal immigration into America tossing them into ovens roll
Or will do you just feel safer continuously criticizing everyone elses opinions, without offering any of your on on the topic? Like Jaekus and company does?As is proved by the extract below and your decision to completely ignore the whole post that you instructed me to make (again).Jaekus wrote:
I've offered plenty and you've either ignored them, taken them completely out of context or totally misunderstood.I made no such claim (see above) I simply informed you about a law that Germany had. I didnt say Americans are Nazis, I didnt say omg your as bad as Hitler derp. I made no comparison other than offering a simple fact. However the correlation appear so strong to you that I must have been calling America Nazis.lowing wrote:
Nope the irony is you take one of the most if not THE most free and tolerant societies in the world, and claim it is like Nazi Germany, all over the audacity of trying to stem the ILLEGAL immigration crisis we face. Especially since it is Europe and not the US, that has spawned such leadership as Mussolini Hitler and Stalin. and which ones were actually elected?
After reading that bullshit I saw no reason to entertain whatever other smart ass/irrational observations you had.
There are many policies bought in by the Nazis that the rest of the world continue to this day.
Where and why did the Olympic flame start? Which was the first party to undertake door to door campaigning? Many similarities between Hitlers economic policies to solve unemployment and FDRs new deal packages.
Anyway why does the country which is THE most free and tolerant have a prison population 5 TIMES higher than any equivalent country?
(I highlighted the bit you will have trouble reading / remembering)
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are telling me that there is a direct correlation between us wanting to reel in our illegal immigration problem and the Naiz's reeling in its own legal citizens that were not fuckin' arian? OkCheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
If those are the laws you are choosing to highlight as demonstrating you have the free-est country in the world then that is up to you. I merely pointed out that Nazi Germany enforced a similar one. Therefore it doesn't line up with your freedom argument. Is there anything in that that is incorrect? I didn't make any subjective judgement on it, I did nothing more than present the facts.
Here you go then, in case you missed it in the 1st 10 pages...
Prison breeds re-offending. You have 5 times the average prison population (per capita) when these prisoners are released they re-offend. As you have such a high rate of incarceration it directly leads to high crime rates.
USA is stuck in this cycle and your suggestion was to increase sentences which is only going to exacerbate the problem. Your other suggestion was to stop prisoners socialising at all while in prison i.e. 3 years plus in solitary before expecting them to integrate seamlessly back into society. Its not going to happen. The only place they are going is back to Jail. "So what" I hear you exclaim. If they are going back to jail that means that there is an additional victim.
How many times do we have to explain to you that the harder you make it for criminals to reintegrate into society, the higher the chance of re offending. Sure I get it, you like the whole revenge and punishment side of justice and that's lovely and all but it should not be at the expense of creating a whole life time of victims.
Every alternative that has been suggested you have scoffed at as being the product of a Nanny state and that you would rather be "free"
What more do you want me to say? Anything that doesn't suit your argument is ignored even if its from your own sources.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-21 18:42:45)
lol you can't just omit certain parts of the judicial system because it doesn't fit your argument. Shifting goalposts.lowing wrote:
I am not talking about bullshit possession charges, we have been through that. I am talking about violent crime.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-07-21 17:48:18)
I am not omitting anything, I have acknowledged that such incarcerations could best be dealt with by NOT making drug abuse illegal. Been an advocate for legalizing drug use in this forum for a long time, and since that portion of this discussion has already been agreed to, there is really no sense in rehashing it.Jaekus wrote:
lol you can't just omit certain parts of the judicial system because it doesn't fit your argument. Shifting goalposts.lowing wrote:
I am not talking about bullshit possession charges, we have been through that. I am talking about violent crime.
[you have never committed to anything that resembles a reason as to why YOU think our crime is so high
Make your mind up which is it? Have I never suggested reasoning or are you just glossing over the fact?already responded to that. Our prisoners get free college, free cable tv, free libraries, free gyms. early release programs, and you wanna argue w are too hard on them, that they don't have any real chance to integrate into society. They can come out of jail with a fuckin' college degree, but you insist, we are too hard on them?
Aryan for starters. Also Aryan =/= non Jews im afraid. Aryan means people that basically are from Scandinavian blonde hair blue eyes, skull sizes etc.lowing wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are telling me that there is a direct correlation between us wanting to reel in our illegal immigration problem and the Naiz's reeling in its own legal citizens that were not fuckin' arian? Ok
Not exactly.eleven bravo wrote:
hitler was democratically appointed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14227014A multiple murderer who went on the rampage after the 9/11 attacks, killing two people he thought were Arabs, has been executed in the US state of Texas.
Mark Stroman, 41, died by lethal injection despite last-minute representations by his lawyer at the US Supreme Court.
In his final weeks Stroman's plea for clemency was backed by Rais Bhuiyan, who was shot but survived.
Mr Bhuiyan had said that killing Stroman was "not the solution".
Stroman admitted the killings, saying he was motivated by anger at the 9/11 attacks and wanted to take revenge on Muslims - or people who resembled Muslims.
"I had some poor upbringing and I grabbed a hold of some ideas which was ignorance, you know, and hate is pure ignorance. I no longer want to be like hate, I want to be like me,"
Well yes actually. He received an unprecedented level of support. There was no point on his rise to Fuhrer (excluding the putsch of course) that did not follow the democratic laws of Germany.Dilbert_X wrote:
Not exactly.eleven bravo wrote:
hitler was democratically appointed
I linked this article a few pages back and he ignored it then as wellAlso one for lowinghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14227014A multiple murderer who went on the rampage after the 9/11 attacks, killing two people he thought were Arabs, has been executed in the US state of Texas.
Mark Stroman, 41, died by lethal injection despite last-minute representations by his lawyer at the US Supreme Court.
In his final weeks Stroman's plea for clemency was backed by Rais Bhuiyan, who was shot but survived.
Mr Bhuiyan had said that killing Stroman was "not the solution".
Stroman admitted the killings, saying he was motivated by anger at the 9/11 attacks and wanted to take revenge on Muslims - or people who resembled Muslims.
"I had some poor upbringing and I grabbed a hold of some ideas which was ignorance, you know, and hate is pure ignorance. I no longer want to be like hate, I want to be like me,"
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-07-22 01:47:47)
I offered my reasons why I think we have a higher crime rate, you scoffed at them. So you tell me.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
[you have never committed to anything that resembles a reason as to why YOU think our crime is so highMake your mind up which is it? Have I never suggested reasoning or are you just glossing over the fact?already responded to that. Our prisoners get free college, free cable tv, free libraries, free gyms. early release programs, and you wanna argue w are too hard on them, that they don't have any real chance to integrate into society. They can come out of jail with a fuckin' college degree, but you insist, we are too hard on them?
I dont care how you choose to punish them but dont pretend you dont know why you have such a high crime rate.
Here is a question you are guarenteed to ignore and is pretty much the crux of my argument.
Would you hire somebody who has been in prison but now has a degree?
(super highlighting because you failed to answer last time so I guess you couldnt see it )Aryan for starters. Also Aryan =/= non Jews im afraid. Aryan means people that basically are from Scandinavian blonde hair blue eyes, skull sizes etc.lowing wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are telling me that there is a direct correlation between us wanting to reel in our illegal immigration problem and the Naiz's reeling in its own legal citizens that were not fuckin' arian? Ok
The law did not apply to non Aryans. It applied solely to Jews.
Your law states all immigrants have to have their full documentation on them at all times (what happens when it gets lost or damaged?) otherwise they get arrested (whether they are illegal or not).
The Nazi law was that all Jews had to have their full documentation on them at all times otherwise they got arrested.
You tell me if you think there is a correlation. Remember that completely legal migrants can be thrown in jail under this law for simply not having their papers.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-22 03:49:20)
yeah, and? Have you never heard of a death chamber apology before? Or anyone trying to save their own skin from being put to death. I wonder if the begging resembled anything like that of his victims. and no, I didn't ignore it. I stated someone should ask the dead guy if he forgives his killer, not the live one.Dilbert_X wrote:
Not exactly.eleven bravo wrote:
hitler was democratically appointed
Also one for lowinghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14227014A multiple murderer who went on the rampage after the 9/11 attacks, killing two people he thought were Arabs, has been executed in the US state of Texas.
Mark Stroman, 41, died by lethal injection despite last-minute representations by his lawyer at the US Supreme Court.
In his final weeks Stroman's plea for clemency was backed by Rais Bhuiyan, who was shot but survived.
Mr Bhuiyan had said that killing Stroman was "not the solution".
Stroman admitted the killings, saying he was motivated by anger at the 9/11 attacks and wanted to take revenge on Muslims - or people who resembled Muslims.
"I had some poor upbringing and I grabbed a hold of some ideas which was ignorance, you know, and hate is pure ignorance. I no longer want to be like hate, I want to be like me,"
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-22 03:24:21)
well that would be a pointless exercise!lowing wrote:
I stated someone should ask the dead guy if he forgives his killer, not the live one.
as pointless as an apology to the live person over the dead one.Jenspm wrote:
well that would be a pointless exercise!lowing wrote:
I stated someone should ask the dead guy if he forgives his killer, not the live one.
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-07-22 03:45:22)
If we are going to listen to the victims now regarding punishment, can we then put people to death if the father of the little girl that was raped wanted her attacker to be executed? Or was that just a one way street you wanted to drive down because it bolstered YOUR argument? I mean hell if we want to let the victims hand out justice...LETS!!Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Jesus. Lowing read it properly not what you want to see FFS. Every single post that does not support your argument you completely mis interpret. Im sure you are doing it deliberately.
The victim that got shot in the face and is now blind in one eye was campaigning to remove the attacker from death row. Nobody gives a damn whether the attacker is "showing remorse" the reason it was posted was the attitude of the victim.
Why does the victim not want this man killed?
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-22 03:49:49)
Well I can not deny that if we followed Ninja's proposals our prisons would not be over crowded. We would not throw anyone in prison, forgive them and give them all the chances they are willing to take. Now there is a plan.Jenspm wrote:
Besides, your prisons are overpopulated anyway
hitler's rise to power was about as democratic as the election of mugabe. it's just what happened as a sort of socio-political knee-jerk reaction. i wouldn't say that hitler's thugs and their presence on the streets, as well as his early attempts to indoctrinate and seed nationalist propaganda exactly amounted to a 'fair and democratic' election. it was far from rosy.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Well yes actually. He received an unprecedented level of support. There was no point on his rise to Fuhrer (excluding the putsch of course) that did not follow the democratic laws of Germany.
lowing wrote:
I of course can only assume this, since he has yet to go out on a limb and give his opinion as to the high crime rate.
Here you go then, in case you missed it in the 1st 10 pages...
Prison breeds re-offending. You have 5 times the average prison population (per capita) when these prisoners are released they re-offend. As you have such a high rate of incarceration it directly leads to high crime rates.
USA is stuck in this cycle and your suggestion was to increase sentences which is only going to exacerbate the problem. Your other suggestion was to stop prisoners socialising at all while in prison i.e. 3 years plus in solitary before expecting them to integrate seamlessly back into society. Its not going to happen. The only place they are going is back to Jail. "So what" I hear you exclaim. If they are going back to jail that means that there is an additional victim.
How many times do we have to explain to you that the harder you make it for criminals to reintegrate into society, the higher the chance of re offending. Sure I get it, you like the whole revenge and punishment side of justice and that's lovely and all but it should not be at the expense of creating a whole life time of victims.
Thought you might miss that bitcheekyninja wrote:
Would you hire somebody who has been in prison but now has a degree?
(super highlighting because you failed to answer last time so I guess you couldnt see it )
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-07-22 04:50:06)
Hitler was elected with more than double the highest vote received by any of the previous governing parties. The Nazis and the KPD both received support as the electorate were polarised by the failure of the 5 moderate parties. Hitler's greatest strength was his Charisma and the time he spent preparing and practising speeches is well documented his rallies were fantastically popular and an electorate who had felt ignored and neglected over the previous 15 years suddenly found somebody who they felt connected with them.Uzique wrote:
hitler's rise to power was about as democratic as the election of mugabe. it's just what happened as a sort of socio-political knee-jerk reaction. i wouldn't say that hitler's thugs and their presence on the streets, as well as his early attempts to indoctrinate and seed nationalist propaganda exactly amounted to a 'fair and democratic' election. it was far from rosy.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Well yes actually. He received an unprecedented level of support. There was no point on his rise to Fuhrer (excluding the putsch of course) that did not follow the democratic laws of Germany.
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-07-22 04:48:02)
