Someone sent me a video today and I thought of this thread so I will go ahead and post it.
Now think about how many kids avoid applied science (engineering) or pure science (physics) degrees because they're afraid of Calculus I.Spark wrote:
I seriously have to wonder how much we, as a civilization, are denting our technological progress just because we can't teach these two subjects properly.
"I'm gonna major in The History of Beer, cause the STEM degrees have.. like.. math and physics.. and, like... stuff.. an that's like.. hard.. y'know, right?"
I don't understand, calculus well taught is a total doddle, easy easy marks.
Fuck Israel
Isn't that true of any subject?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Nope, some require a lot of rote learning and others are subjective.
Learning to write the answer the examiner wants to see is harder than simply learning the right answer.
Learning to write the answer the examiner wants to see is harder than simply learning the right answer.
Fuck Israel
The point being:Dilbert_X wrote:
Nope, some require a lot of rote learning and others are subjective.
Learning to write the answer the examiner wants to see is harder than simply learning the right answer.
Replace calculus with any other subject. If it's "well taught"--ie, taught properly, so that the student meets expectations, regardless of what those may be--then it's easy. Taught poorly, any subject is difficult without the student having some innate ability to learn on their own.calculus well taught is a total doddle, easy easy marks.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Everything has pros and cons.Ilocano wrote:
^ this.Cybargs wrote:
beth: Urban area china is hardcore studying while in the western country side family put more emphasis for the kids helping the family out but education is still HUGE. It's mostly about opportunity costs for REALLY poor areas due to their financial situation rather than any class cultural thing. If they had the money you can bet your ass India will be exactly the same as East Asia.
And in rural China and India, and all over East and South Asia. Family farmers. Eldest kids (when of adult working age) will work in the city or out of the country in basic blue collar, maid, babysitter, nanny, or hard labor jobs. Eldest sacrifice and work hard, sending most of their money back home to finance education for their younger siblings. This practice is very prevalent in this region. The poorest of the poor, just given a pinch of opportunity, will sacrific close to everything so that they can give their children a better future.
Yes, similar beliefs all over the world. But in Asian cultures, education is often the top priority after survival needs. In many South of the border countries, rather than channeling the money toward education for their kids, many choose to build bigger homes. Asians usually think long term, generation after generation, rather than immediate gratification.
Counter point to our welfare state here in the US. Single teens getting pregnant multiple times, not in hopes of making a better future for their kids, but being supported by the government, not having to work.
East Asian cultures might emphasize education and hard work, but they also emphasize conformity. The family focus comes at the cost of individualism.
There's a good reason that innovation is more characteristic of Western cultures. East Asia is better known for efficiency and perfection of other's designs. The West (and America specifically oftentimes) is better known for creating new designs altogether.
...if you're math inclined, yes. If you're not... not so much.Dilbert_X wrote:
I don't understand, calculus well taught is a total doddle, easy easy marks.
Actually, even if you're not mathematically inclined, it holds true. I was not inclined towards math until I had calculus (and then differential equations) taught to me properly. Once I understood the topic, I realized it wasn't nearly as difficult--and I wasn't nearly as disinclined--as I initially believed.Turquoise wrote:
...if you're math inclined, yes. If you're not... not so much.Dilbert_X wrote:
I don't understand, calculus well taught is a total doddle, easy easy marks.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I had the opposite experience. I'm great at anything math-related before Calculus. I suck at anything after it.FEOS wrote:
Actually, even if you're not mathematically inclined, it holds true. I was not inclined towards math until I had calculus (and then differential equations) taught to me properly. Once I understood the topic, I realized it wasn't nearly as difficult--and I wasn't nearly as disinclined--as I initially believed.Turquoise wrote:
...if you're math inclined, yes. If you're not... not so much.Dilbert_X wrote:
I don't understand, calculus well taught is a total doddle, easy easy marks.
Math makes a lot more sense to me when it's less abstract. I always preferred Statistics over Calculus.
LOL. You think statistics isn't abstract?Turquoise wrote:
I had the opposite experience. I'm great at anything math-related before Calculus. I suck at anything after it.FEOS wrote:
Actually, even if you're not mathematically inclined, it holds true. I was not inclined towards math until I had calculus (and then differential equations) taught to me properly. Once I understood the topic, I realized it wasn't nearly as difficult--and I wasn't nearly as disinclined--as I initially believed.Turquoise wrote:
...if you're math inclined, yes. If you're not... not so much.
Math makes a lot more sense to me when it's less abstract. I always preferred Statistics over Calculus.
You clearly didn't have the right/a good calc teacher. Calc is VERY non-abstract in its foundation. It's about limits and rate of change--extremely non-abstract concepts.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Statistics didn't strike me as abstract. It just seemed like a natural extension of previous math.FEOS wrote:
LOL. You think statistics isn't abstract?Turquoise wrote:
I had the opposite experience. I'm great at anything math-related before Calculus. I suck at anything after it.FEOS wrote:
Actually, even if you're not mathematically inclined, it holds true. I was not inclined towards math until I had calculus (and then differential equations) taught to me properly. Once I understood the topic, I realized it wasn't nearly as difficult--and I wasn't nearly as disinclined--as I initially believed.
Math makes a lot more sense to me when it's less abstract. I always preferred Statistics over Calculus.
You clearly didn't have the right/a good calc teacher. Calc is VERY non-abstract in its foundation. It's about limits and rate of change--extremely non-abstract concepts.
My first Calc teacher was shitty, but my second one was decent. For some reason though, it never clicked for me.
I found Econometrics much more intuitive.
Last edited by Turquoise (2012-01-18 07:56:20)
Statistics fucking sucked. I liked calculus a lot more.
I liked everything but DiffEQ. Fuck DiffEQ.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
There's a lot of calculus in statistics...Turquoise wrote:
Statistics didn't strike me as abstract. It just seemed like a natural extension of previous math.FEOS wrote:
LOL. You think statistics isn't abstract?Turquoise wrote:
I had the opposite experience. I'm great at anything math-related before Calculus. I suck at anything after it.
Math makes a lot more sense to me when it's less abstract. I always preferred Statistics over Calculus.
You clearly didn't have the right/a good calc teacher. Calc is VERY non-abstract in its foundation. It's about limits and rate of change--extremely non-abstract concepts.
My first Calc teacher was shitty, but my second one was decent. For some reason though, it never clicked for me.
I found Econometrics much more intuitive.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
What in the fuck does this have to do with the OP?
Western culture obviously is more characteristic of innovation, because Western Culture mindset has dominated for centuries, if not millenia. Give it time. India and China. Just compare patent counts.Turquoise wrote:
Everything has pros and cons.Ilocano wrote:
^ this.Cybargs wrote:
beth: Urban area china is hardcore studying while in the western country side family put more emphasis for the kids helping the family out but education is still HUGE. It's mostly about opportunity costs for REALLY poor areas due to their financial situation rather than any class cultural thing. If they had the money you can bet your ass India will be exactly the same as East Asia.
And in rural China and India, and all over East and South Asia. Family farmers. Eldest kids (when of adult working age) will work in the city or out of the country in basic blue collar, maid, babysitter, nanny, or hard labor jobs. Eldest sacrifice and work hard, sending most of their money back home to finance education for their younger siblings. This practice is very prevalent in this region. The poorest of the poor, just given a pinch of opportunity, will sacrific close to everything so that they can give their children a better future.
Yes, similar beliefs all over the world. But in Asian cultures, education is often the top priority after survival needs. In many South of the border countries, rather than channeling the money toward education for their kids, many choose to build bigger homes. Asians usually think long term, generation after generation, rather than immediate gratification.
Counter point to our welfare state here in the US. Single teens getting pregnant multiple times, not in hopes of making a better future for their kids, but being supported by the government, not having to work.
East Asian cultures might emphasize education and hard work, but they also emphasize conformity. The family focus comes at the cost of individualism.
There's a good reason that innovation is more characteristic of Western cultures. East Asia is better known for efficiency and perfection of other's designs. The West (and America specifically oftentimes) is better known for creating new designs altogether.
Yes, family focus, but often driven by the first born, to go out into the unknown, make something of himself to support the family back home. The first born, leaving the security of his/her country, venturing out to a foreign land/culture, surviving/adjustiing, succeeding, with no safety net whatsoever. To do that requires significant individualism of character. More so than Western cultures where rarely do children venture far from their family roots. And it's really not conformity. In general, working together for a common goal is more effective than everyone for themselves.
Side note: my eldest son is considering a career in Industrial Design Engineering Applications. We're Asian, btw.
I guess I was lucky not to get that far in Statistics. We only used a very small amount of Calculus. Most of it was just crunching data to make predictive equations.FEOS wrote:
There's a lot of calculus in statistics...
What you're describing is mostly the elite class of immigrants that Macbeth referenced. That's not characteristic of the average Chinese or Indian person though. The average person in either of those countries is still rather poor and unable to really afford immigrating.Ilocano wrote:
Western culture obviously is more characteristic of innovation, because Western Culture mindset has dominated for centuries, if not millenia. Give it time. India and China. Just compare patent counts.
Yes, family focus, but often driven by the first born, to go out into the unknown, make something of himself to support the family back home. The first born, leaving the security of his/her country, venturing out to a foreign land/culture, surviving/adjustiing, succeeding, with no safety net whatsoever. To do that requires significant individualism of character. More so than Western cultures where rarely do children venture far from their family roots. And it's really not conformity. In general, working together for a common goal is more effective than everyone for themselves.
Side note: my eldest son is considering a career in Industrial Design Engineering Applications. We're Asian, btw.
WatMore so than Western cultures where rarely do children venture far from their family roots
That doesn't sound very individualistic.In general, working together for a common goal is more effective than everyone for themselves.
Most Chinese/Indians don't need to immigrate across the planet to seek their fortunes while still encounter a vastly different culture/society.Turquoise wrote:
What you're describing is mostly the elite class of immigrants that Macbeth referenced. That's not characteristic of the average Chinese or Indian person though. The average person in either of those countries is still rather poor and unable to really afford immigrating.Ilocano wrote:
Western culture obviously is more characteristic of innovation, because Western Culture mindset has dominated for centuries, if not millenia. Give it time. India and China. Just compare patent counts.
Yes, family focus, but often driven by the first born, to go out into the unknown, make something of himself to support the family back home. The first born, leaving the security of his/her country, venturing out to a foreign land/culture, surviving/adjustiing, succeeding, with no safety net whatsoever. To do that requires significant individualism of character. More so than Western cultures where rarely do children venture far from their family roots. And it's really not conformity. In general, working together for a common goal is more effective than everyone for themselves.
Side note: my eldest son is considering a career in Industrial Design Engineering Applications. We're Asian, btw.
How many people do you know have sought job prospects outside of Westernized cultures? How many have gone away farther than a 3-5 hour flight?Macbeth wrote:
WatMore so than Western cultures where rarely do children venture far from their family rootsThat doesn't sound very individualistic.In general, working together for a common goal is more effective than everyone for themselves.
Even in group situations, there will always be leaders. Those are the "individuals" in the group, with new thoughts and ideas to advance the group. Often times, it'll be the first-born who will take on the reigns of leadership after the father.
I don't see why flight distance is a valid variable. You could move to the next town over and live a completely self-contained life separate from the parent structure
Besides, sink or swim only works to a marginal extent. Those that do swim tend to be more lucky than skilled.
Besides, sink or swim only works to a marginal extent. Those that do swim tend to be more lucky than skilled.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Because moving back into your parents basement in the next town if you fail is the same as an 18 hour flight.Jay wrote:
I don't see why flight distance is a valid variable. You could move to the next town over and live a completely self-contained life separate from the parent structure .
True, luck and right place, right time does play a major role.Jay wrote:
Besides, sink or swim only works to a marginal extent. Those that do swim tend to be more lucky than skilled.
As long as the option is still there as a fall back, the two are the same. In my opinion, the person with the 18 hour flight is more likely to fail because they homesickness can make people do crazy shit. Yeah, the flight is expensive, and so is the cost in shame, but the 'give up' option in this case is largely irrevocable.Ilocano wrote:
Because moving back into your parents basement in the next town if you fail is the same as an 18 hour flight.Jay wrote:
I don't see why flight distance is a valid variable. You could move to the next town over and live a completely self-contained life separate from the parent structure .
Besides, you're talking about moving an entire household of items, no one abandons their crap Flight time becomes even less relevant.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat