Was it a Hispanic neighborhood?eleven bravo wrote:
ive never been in an hispanic household where that kind of attitude towards sports existed.
what is an hispanic neighborhood in southern california? ofcourse it was.
Tu Stultus Es
They're all on the same level L.Trotskygrad wrote:
thing is limits are like required to do derivation/integration... imo teaching the limit definition of a derivative/integral is better than teaching derivation/integration before limits.Jay wrote:
I just looked up the Kumon method via wiki and I gotta say, I do like the way that they teach math.
Level K: Functions: Quadratic, fractional, irrational, exponential
Level L: Logarithms, basic limits, derivatives, integrals, and its applications
Level M: Trigonometry, straight lines, equation of circles.
Level N: Loci, limits of functions, sequences, differentiation
Doing derivatives and integrals before teaching trig makes a whole lot of sense. Theory before application instead of the other way around. It's how I would teach my own kids.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
many neighborhoods many families none of the parents were the way you described towards their kids.
Tu Stultus Es
Yup. It's all about mastering. Versus the generalization that is standard teaching.Jay wrote:
I just looked up the Kumon method via wiki and I gotta say, I do like the way that they teach math.
Level K: Functions: Quadratic, fractional, irrational, exponential
Level L: Logarithms, basic limits, derivatives, integrals, and its applications
Level M: Trigonometry, straight lines, equation of circles.
Level N: Loci, limits of functions, sequences, differentiation
Doing derivatives and integrals before teaching trig makes a whole lot of sense. Theory before application instead of the other way around. It's how I would teach my own kids.
It'll make physics teaching a million times better too, rather than wasting years on half-assed "history of physics and friends" bullshit, actually use calc and teach proper genuine classical mechanics. Then maybe if you ditch that level N stuff and replace it with some simple multivariable calc and vector calc you can move onto really meaty physics too.Jay wrote:
"Ok, remember those derivatives we learned in the last section? Now you can apply it with the y=mx+b formula! Just plug in your answer and you've got the slope! See how easy that is kids?"Spark wrote:
yeah indeed. the standard maths cirriculum in high schools is ass-over-face backwards.Jay wrote:
I just looked up the Kumon method via wiki and I gotta say, I do like the way that they teach math.
Level K: Functions: Quadratic, fractional, irrational, exponential
Level L: Logarithms, basic limits, derivatives, integrals, and its applications
Level M: Trigonometry, straight lines, equation of circles.
Level N: Loci, limits of functions, sequences, differentiation
Doing derivatives and integrals before teaching trig makes a whole lot of sense. Theory before application instead of the other way around. It's how I would teach my own kids.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
How much does it cost you per year?Ilocano wrote:
Yup. It's all about mastering. Versus the generalization that is standard teaching.Jay wrote:
I just looked up the Kumon method via wiki and I gotta say, I do like the way that they teach math.
Level K: Functions: Quadratic, fractional, irrational, exponential
Level L: Logarithms, basic limits, derivatives, integrals, and its applications
Level M: Trigonometry, straight lines, equation of circles.
Level N: Loci, limits of functions, sequences, differentiation
Doing derivatives and integrals before teaching trig makes a whole lot of sense. Theory before application instead of the other way around. It's how I would teach my own kids.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The grouping of limits with sequences make me suspect that level N is tending towards a more mathematically rigorous notion on limit, which can get more nasty than any derivative you'll ever meet.Trotskygrad wrote:
thing is limits are like required to do derivation/integration... imo teaching the limit definition of a derivative/integral is better than teaching derivation/integration before limits.Jay wrote:
I just looked up the Kumon method via wiki and I gotta say, I do like the way that they teach math.
Level K: Functions: Quadratic, fractional, irrational, exponential
Level L: Logarithms, basic limits, derivatives, integrals, and its applications
Level M: Trigonometry, straight lines, equation of circles.
Level N: Loci, limits of functions, sequences, differentiation
Doing derivatives and integrals before teaching trig makes a whole lot of sense. Theory before application instead of the other way around. It's how I would teach my own kids.
Or it could just be going into more difficult to evaluate limits - think squeeze theorem, l'hopital etc.
Last edited by Spark (2011-06-29 09:55:37)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
i used to mark kumon
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Discounts for multiple classes. Math for my eldest. Math and Reading for my younger one. Total, $360 a month, for a year contract. Miniscule compared to Private High School tuitions.
I despise the way math is taught in high school here. It's been years, but what I remember the sequence being was geometry, algebra (or vice versa, I can't recall), trig, and then pre-calc or calc. It was just heavy handed rote memorization and they wondered why people fell asleep in class or why math is considered a 'sink or swim' discipline where some just get it and some don't. Math isn't that difficult. It's just taught exceedingly poorly in a way that will bore the pants off kids. I remember having to memorize the slope formula and had no clue what it meant or how it was derived. You get left with a bunch of kids that can plug numbers into a formula but have no concept of 'why'. I've always been a 'why' kind of person so I hated math. Then I got into college calculus and actually enjoyed it! "Holy shit, that's why we did what we did all those years ago!?" Mind blown. But by the time kids get to college they want nothing to do with math because the beauty has already been ripped out of it by the piss poor grade school curriculum.Spark wrote:
It'll make physics teaching a million times better too, rather than wasting years on half-assed "history of physics and friends" bullshit, actually use calc and teach proper genuine classical mechanics. Then maybe if you ditch that level N stuff and replace it with some simple multivariable calc and vector calc you can move onto really meaty physics too.Jay wrote:
"Ok, remember those derivatives we learned in the last section? Now you can apply it with the y=mx+b formula! Just plug in your answer and you've got the slope! See how easy that is kids?"Spark wrote:
yeah indeed. the standard maths cirriculum in high schools is ass-over-face backwards.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I would just assume that it delves into l'hopital kind of stuff (which is easy anyway). It's kind of weird that they mixed in Calc I and Calc II stuff into level N but I guess it makes sense too. I really do like the sequencing they do more and more, the more I look at it.Spark wrote:
The grouping of limits with sequences make me suspect that level N is tending towards a more mathematically rigorous notion on limit, which can get more nasty than any derivative you'll ever meet.Trotskygrad wrote:
thing is limits are like required to do derivation/integration... imo teaching the limit definition of a derivative/integral is better than teaching derivation/integration before limits.Jay wrote:
I just looked up the Kumon method via wiki and I gotta say, I do like the way that they teach math.
Level K: Functions: Quadratic, fractional, irrational, exponential
Level L: Logarithms, basic limits, derivatives, integrals, and its applications
Level M: Trigonometry, straight lines, equation of circles.
Level N: Loci, limits of functions, sequences, differentiation
Doing derivatives and integrals before teaching trig makes a whole lot of sense. Theory before application instead of the other way around. It's how I would teach my own kids.
Or it could just be going into more difficult to evaluate limits - think squeeze theorem, l'hopital etc.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Yeah I was the same. For most of my childhood/teenage years I saw myself as a pure physicist and maths a necessary but rather dull tool mostly apart from when i did extension work and the like. But then in late high school I got an awesome teacher and got a lot more "extension" work, and it was fantastic. Did a really basic abstract algebra (ring theory mostly) mini-course and loved it.Jay wrote:
I despise the way math is taught in high school here. It's been years, but what I remember the sequence being was geometry, algebra (or vice versa, I can't recall), trig, and then pre-calc or calc. It was just heavy handed rote memorization and they wondered why people fell asleep in class or why math is considered a 'sink or swim' discipline where some just get it and some don't. Math isn't that difficult. It's just taught exceedingly poorly in a way that will bore the pants off kids. I remember having to memorize the slope formula and had no clue what it meant or how it was derived. You get left with a bunch of kids that can plug numbers into a formula but have no concept of 'why'. I've always been a 'why' kind of person so I hated math. Then I got into college calculus and actually enjoyed it! "Holy shit, that's why we did what we did all those years ago!?" Mind blown. But by the time kids get to college they want nothing to do with math because the beauty has already been ripped out of it by the piss poor grade school curriculum.Spark wrote:
It'll make physics teaching a million times better too, rather than wasting years on half-assed "history of physics and friends" bullshit, actually use calc and teach proper genuine classical mechanics. Then maybe if you ditch that level N stuff and replace it with some simple multivariable calc and vector calc you can move onto really meaty physics too.Jay wrote:
"Ok, remember those derivatives we learned in the last section? Now you can apply it with the y=mx+b formula! Just plug in your answer and you've got the slope! See how easy that is kids?"
Physics teaching is worse though. Went five years without learning a single useful thing in physics classes at high school, decided early on that I would have to teach myself.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Well, my eldest played in leagues, so, we have first hand experience. Let's leave it at that.eleven bravo wrote:
many neighborhoods many families none of the parents were the way you described towards their kids.
I always enjoyed classes in applied physics, like Statics and Dynamics, more than the theoretical stuff taught in my general physics requirements.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
im sure the kind of people you have experience around make 6 figures a year too
Tu Stultus Es
I always enjoyed when they actually taught PHYSICS and not the history of it or some rubbish. Having said that I'm much more physicist than engineer so I've always leaned towards theoreticalJay wrote:
I always enjoyed classes in applied physics, like Statics and Dynamics, more than the theoretical stuff taught in my general physics requirements.
The most frustrating by far though is QM though. It's such a simple, elegant and astoundingly practical theory which has been more or less appallingly misrepresented as some grand, pseudo-philosophical spooky paradigm about the universe. And all because the way we teach maths and physics is so terrible that the real basic fundamentals of quantum mechanics - vector spaces etc. are just completely alien to anyone who hasn't done maths at a "high" level.
Last edited by Spark (2011-06-29 10:08:32)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
My father was a high school physics teacher. Still quite amazed when his former students by chance meet him and they show formal respect.Spark wrote:
Physics teaching is worse though. Went five years without learning a single useful thing in physics classes at high school, decided early on that I would have to teach myself.
You went to Blair...eleven bravo wrote:
im sure the kind of people you have experience around make 6 figures a year too
I seriously have to wonder how much we, as a civilization, are denting our technological progress just because we can't teach these two subjects properly.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
were you even around blair in the late 90's? the student body was 60% hispanic. there was a 50% drop out rate for seniors (including me) now what exactly are you implying?Ilocano wrote:
You went to Blair...eleven bravo wrote:
im sure the kind of people you have experience around make 6 figures a year too
Last edited by eleven bravo (2011-06-29 10:22:14)
Tu Stultus Es
Well, on this side of the planet, the issue here is with the teachers themselves. When it comes to the subjects they teach they are incredibly ultra-conservative, especially the older, tenured teachers. They've got their lesson plans in place and just want to get through the school year in as orderly a fashion, with as little hassle, as possible. If you change their curriculum it means more work for them and teachers hate work. Yes, this is a gross generalization and doesn't apply to all teachers. It does, however, apply to the majority of teachers that I've come into contact with during my life.Spark wrote:
I seriously have to wonder how much we, as a civilization, are denting our technological progress just because we can't teach these two subjects properly.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I was referring to the neighborhood, not the student body.eleven bravo wrote:
were you even around blair in the late 90's? the student body was 60% hispanic. there was a 50% drop out rate for seniors (including me) now what exactly are you implying?Ilocano wrote:
You went to Blair...eleven bravo wrote:
im sure the kind of people you have experience around make 6 figures a year too
i didnt know anybody in that neighborhood. most people didnt. the neighborhood doesnt even get that nice until you travel further south on marengo. whats next to it, a freeway? yeah prime realestate. next to that, a power plant??? real high class area...
Tu Stultus Es
i could tell you when I have ran into the kinds of households you were referring to. when I went pasadena alternative i made friends with a lot of rich kids.
Tu Stultus Es