^^ Ha! Finally the military channel documentaries paid off.
I knew about all of that I just wasn't sure how true it all was.
I knew about all of that I just wasn't sure how true it all was.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
If the US hadn't entered the war in Europe they wouldn't have picked up all those smart Germans to run their missile programs. Potentially the US could have faced a nuclear-missile armed Germany, Russia or Japan.
People shouldn't forget also that besides isolationism there was a signficant anti-semitic movement in the US, hence jewish refugees were turned away from there like everywhere else.
Apart from that Europe is, mostly, grateful for the US involvement in Europe.
People shouldn't forget also that besides isolationism there was a signficant anti-semitic movement in the US, hence jewish refugees were turned away from there like everywhere else.
Apart from that Europe is, mostly, grateful for the US involvement in Europe.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
antisemitism wasnt that significant actually.
Tu Stultus Es
These would be all the Jewish refugees who were leaving Europe because no European country would allow them in due to the long and deep running anti-semitism there (pre-war)? We are/were a country of mostly European immigrants, after all.Dilbert_X wrote:
People shouldn't forget also that besides isolationism there was a signficant anti-semitic movement in the US, hence jewish refugees were turned away from there like everywhere else.
Apart from that Europe is, mostly, grateful for the US involvement in Europe.
Anti-semitism played a role, but it paled in significance to the role pacifism and isolationism played in delaying US entry into the war.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Erm, the US wouldn't let them in either, Britain and other European countries were no more anti-semitic than the US.FEOS wrote:
These would be all the Jewish refugees who were leaving Europe because no European country would allow them in due to the long and deep running anti-semitism there?
Or, apparently less so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of … zi_Germany
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-06-25 06:53:29)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Has the U.S. government ever confirmed they worked with the mafia during WW2? Also how much did this cooperation benefit the war effort?
How in anyones name can you interpret anything I said in this thread into me saying anything even remotely close to "Gestapo not being that bad"?Shahter wrote:
i was initially replying to varegg's post about "gestapo not being that bad", but then you got in along with the rest of "usa, fuck yeah!"-ers.FEOS wrote:
Who's "they"?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
you said? it doesn't matter what you said at all - you are a guy posting on internetz. what matters is what's there in history books you are supplied with and how an army of shitfies - the bunch your government draws their legitimacy from - will interpret that.Varegg wrote:
How in anyones name can you interpret anything I said in this thread into me saying anything even remotely close to "Gestapo not being that bad"?Shahter wrote:
i was initially replying to varegg's post about "gestapo not being that bad", but then you got in along with the rest of "usa, fuck yeah!"-ers.FEOS wrote:
Who's "they"?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Pick this up and read it.FEOS wrote:
What Shahter doesn't understand is the strength of the pacifist/isolationist movement in the US during the interwar years. Roosevelt was doing everything he could to help the European powers short of committing forces, which he couldn't do because of said movement. In fact, that movement was pushing to hold Roosevelt accountable for the aid we were providing, which led to Lend Lease (as opposed to just "giving it away"). It was a tightrope Roosevelt was walking (irony, I know), and until Japan attacked, he was perilously close to Congress revolting against him because of it. He worked much of it "backchannel" through the War Department so that Congress and the public wouldn't notice.
http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Hitler- … 030740515X
Try not to have a Brain Hemorrhage.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
You are seriously the most delusional character I've come across in a long while ...Shahter wrote:
you said? it doesn't matter what you said at all - you are a guy posting on internetz. what matters is what's there in history books you are supplied with and how an army of shitfies - the bunch your government draws their legitimacy from - will interpret that.Varegg wrote:
How in anyones name can you interpret anything I said in this thread into me saying anything even remotely close to "Gestapo not being that bad"?Shahter wrote:
i was initially replying to varegg's post about "gestapo not being that bad", but then you got in along with the rest of "usa, fuck yeah!"-ers.
So it doesn't matter what I said, of course it does matter ... it matters a lot when you claim opinions on my behalf that I don't have or never have expressed!
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
go back to my first post and read it again. try to find a place where i "claimed opinions on your behalf".Varegg wrote:
You are seriously the most delusional character I've come across in a long while ...Shahter wrote:
you said? it doesn't matter what you said at all - you are a guy posting on internetz. what matters is what's there in history books you are supplied with and how an army of shitfies - the bunch your government draws their legitimacy from - will interpret that.Varegg wrote:
How in anyones name can you interpret anything I said in this thread into me saying anything even remotely close to "Gestapo not being that bad"?
So it doesn't matter what I said, of course it does matter ... it matters a lot when you claim opinions on my behalf that I don't have or never have expressed!
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
And here we go ...Shahter wrote:
go back to my first post and read it again. try to find a place where i "claimed opinions on your behalf".
Shahter wrote:
i was initially replying to varegg's post about "gestapo not being that bad", but then you got in along with the rest of "usa, fuck yeah!"-ers.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
okay, i get it. this is another case of my lousy english. i thought "a post about"-remark and quotation marks would be sufficient.Varegg wrote:
And here we go ...Shahter wrote:
go back to my first post and read it again. try to find a place where i "claimed opinions on your behalf".Shahter wrote:
i was initially replying to varegg's post about "gestapo not being that bad", but then you got in along with the rest of "usa, fuck yeah!"-ers.
anyway, no, i claim no opinions on your behalf. i simply suggested that maybe you should think a little bit deeper into the matter.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
The immigration act of 1942 was mainly used to limit southern european and asian immigrants to the US.Dilbert_X wrote:
Erm, the US wouldn't let them in either, Britain and other European countries were no more anti-semitic than the US.FEOS wrote:
These would be all the Jewish refugees who were leaving Europe because no European country would allow them in due to the long and deep running anti-semitism there?
Or, apparently less so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of … zi_Germany
Think a bit deeper? ... into what matter if I may ask ... again your English seems to cloud what you really mean so if it isn't too much trouble it would be very nice for you to spell it out to avoid yet another misunderstanding ...Shahter wrote:
okay, i get it. this is another case of my lousy english. i thought "a post about"-remark and quotation marks would be sufficient.Varegg wrote:
And here we go ...Shahter wrote:
go back to my first post and read it again. try to find a place where i "claimed opinions on your behalf".Shahter wrote:
i was initially replying to varegg's post about "gestapo not being that bad", but then you got in along with the rest of "usa, fuck yeah!"-ers.
anyway, no, i claim no opinions on your behalf. i simply suggested that maybe you should think a little bit deeper into the matter.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
into the matter of western historians trying to portray nazies in such a way that people might not think them all that bad.Varegg wrote:
Think a bit deeper? ... into what matter if I may askShahter wrote:
okay, i get it. this is another case of my lousy english. i thought "a post about"-remark and quotation marks would be sufficient.Varegg wrote:
And here we go ...Shahter wrote:
go back to my first post and read it again. try to find a place where i "claimed opinions on your behalf".
anyway, no, i claim no opinions on your behalf. i simply suggested that maybe you should think a little bit deeper into the matter.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
And when did I utter such a travesty if I may ask?Shahter wrote:
into the matter of western historians trying to portray nazies in such a way that people might not think them all that bad.Varegg wrote:
Think a bit deeper? ... into what matter if I may askShahter wrote:
okay, i get it. this is another case of my lousy english. i thought "a post about"-remark and quotation marks would be sufficient.
anyway, no, i claim no opinions on your behalf. i simply suggested that maybe you should think a little bit deeper into the matter.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
You seem to have left off part of what I wrote, Dil:Dilbert_X wrote:
Erm, the US wouldn't let them in either, Britain and other European countries were no more anti-semitic than the US.FEOS wrote:
These would be all the Jewish refugees who were leaving Europe because no European country would allow them in due to the long and deep running anti-semitism there?
Or, apparently less so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of … zi_Germany
Anti-semitism in Europe had everyone (including the UK) turning a blind eye to the pre-Holocaust Nazi purges of Jews. In fact, European countries were working actively with Germany to find a "new homeland" for the Jews outside of Europe. IIRC, Madagascar was seriously considered as an option.FEOS wrote:
These would be all the Jewish refugees who were leaving Europe because no European country would allow them in due to the long and deep running anti-semitism there? We are/were a country of mostly European immigrants, after all.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
This isnt true at all...Shahter wrote:
into the matter of western historians trying to portray nazies in such a way that people might not think them all that bad.Varegg wrote:
Think a bit deeper? ... into what matter if I may askShahter wrote:
okay, i get it. this is another case of my lousy english. i thought "a post about"-remark and quotation marks would be sufficient.
anyway, no, i claim no opinions on your behalf. i simply suggested that maybe you should think a little bit deeper into the matter.
Subjectively interrogating evidence without prejudice = / = promoting Nazism.
Human Smoke touches on much of the same material, as it focuses on the pacifist movement and how that led the US to turn a blind eye to much of what was going on in Europe pre-Pearl Harbor.Kmar wrote:
Pick this up and read it.FEOS wrote:
What Shahter doesn't understand is the strength of the pacifist/isolationist movement in the US during the interwar years. Roosevelt was doing everything he could to help the European powers short of committing forces, which he couldn't do because of said movement. In fact, that movement was pushing to hold Roosevelt accountable for the aid we were providing, which led to Lend Lease (as opposed to just "giving it away"). It was a tightrope Roosevelt was walking (irony, I know), and until Japan attacked, he was perilously close to Congress revolting against him because of it. He worked much of it "backchannel" through the War Department so that Congress and the public wouldn't notice.
http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Hitler- … 030740515X
Try not to have a Brain Hemorrhage.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Western historians--in general--do not do this. Most approach the issue objectively, which may appear (to some) that they are "siding" with the Nazis (they are not), because they are finding good and bad with both sides as they analyze the actions of the players involved.Shahter wrote:
into the matter of western historians trying to portray nazies in such a way that people might not think them all that bad.Varegg wrote:
Think a bit deeper? ... into what matter if I may askShahter wrote:
okay, i get it. this is another case of my lousy english. i thought "a post about"-remark and quotation marks would be sufficient.
anyway, no, i claim no opinions on your behalf. i simply suggested that maybe you should think a little bit deeper into the matter.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
@Shahter: Like FEOS mentioned in the post just above this one ... historians have not sugarcoted the Nazis in any way, what they have done differently the last decade or two is to also portray the lack of determination from other European politicians amongst others in their feeble attempts to stop the Nazis earlier in the process.
I have yet to read anything from a western historian that speaks of the Nazis in any way other than with extreme cruelty about their actions, both towards Jews, Russians, European civilians, POWs etc etc ...
I know there have been works published by Nazi revisionists trying to excuse some parts of the Nazi ideology but those books are few in numbers and can't prove much if anything at all of the content.
So if you believe western historians in general publish nothing but lies I cannot reach any other conclusion besides the one that you are a victim of propaganda and not us ...
I have yet to read anything from a western historian that speaks of the Nazis in any way other than with extreme cruelty about their actions, both towards Jews, Russians, European civilians, POWs etc etc ...
I know there have been works published by Nazi revisionists trying to excuse some parts of the Nazi ideology but those books are few in numbers and can't prove much if anything at all of the content.
So if you believe western historians in general publish nothing but lies I cannot reach any other conclusion besides the one that you are a victim of propaganda and not us ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Fixed.FEOS wrote:
Anti-semitism in Europe and America had everyone (including the UK) turning a blind eye to the pre-Holocaust Nazi purges of Jews. In fact, European countries were working actively with Germany to find a "new homeland" for the Jews outside of Europe. IIRC, Madagascar was seriously considered as an option.
American anti-semiticism continued well into the fifties, with Greek and Italian peasants being given preferential immigration treatment over educated jews.
Germany didn't want the jews, Europe didn't want the jews, Britain didn't want the jews, America didn't want the jews, Palestine didn't want the jews, Madagascar didn't want the jews.
The 'Final Solution' was just that, the 'solution' to the problem of no-one on earth wanting them, no-ones hands are clean in this, not even America's.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Well, now they have Israel.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
FEOS wrote:
Western historians--in general--do not do this.
of course they don't. the only thing they do is continuously draw parallels between nazies and soviets - those, who actually destroyed nazies and who's ideology was completely opposite of that of nazies. but other than that - yeah, completely objective.Varegg wrote:
@Shahter: Like FEOS mentioned in the post just above this one ... historians have not sugarcoted the Nazis in any way
/facepalm
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.