If I sell a loaded handgun to a six year old for a dollar, it's not my fault what happens next?
Since when is a six year old capable of making their own decisions? Would you give a six year old a shot of Everclear? How about a cigarette? Please. Let's be a bit less hyperbolic with our arguments.Ilocano wrote:
If I sell a loaded handgun to a six year old for a dollar, it's not my fault what happens next?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Ok, make that a teenager wanting to go Columbine.Jay wrote:
Since when is a six year old capable of making their own decisions? Would you give a six year old a shot of Everclear? How about a cigarette? Please. Let's be a bit less hyperbolic with our arguments.Ilocano wrote:
If I sell a loaded handgun to a six year old for a dollar, it's not my fault what happens next?
The cartels that exist because people like you want drugs banned. That's rich.lowing wrote:
family members are victims, and so are people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time when the addicts are desperate for money for their next fix. I wonder if you would consider those innocent people killed caught in the crossfire with drug cartels as victims....Guess not.Uzique wrote:
how does a drug dealer produce 'victims'? it's a sale. people go there wanting a product and they buy it voluntarily. if they get addicted, surely that's their responsibility? how can a conservative with strong beliefs in american individualism imply some form of communal responsibility and blame for a drug addict? if you go and willingly buy drugs (and no one is ever forced to), then it's your fault if you become an addict. drug dealing in that sense is a victimless crime. everything else after that is your bias and conjecture putting shit on the guy that you don't know and don't have any evidence for. does that deserve death, then? well then i guess libel and copyright infringement are victimless crimes equally deserving of a firing squadlowing wrote:
I understand this, but like I have said time and time again, a criminal dying in the act of committing a crime does not bother me in the slightest. and please lets not include jay walking as a crime JUST LIKE a crime where there is a victim.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
That makes no sense at all..Ilocano wrote:
Ok, make that a teenager wanting to go Columbine.Jay wrote:
Since when is a six year old capable of making their own decisions? Would you give a six year old a shot of Everclear? How about a cigarette? Please. Let's be a bit less hyperbolic with our arguments.Ilocano wrote:
If I sell a loaded handgun to a six year old for a dollar, it's not my fault what happens next?
How can you clamor about personal responsibility but then say something like this? Buyer beware. Selling/doing drugs is the exact definition of a victimless crime. I'm not talking drug cartels from Mexico and Columbia. I'm talking the average American who deals on the side or does drugs recreationally. Who's getting hurt from that?lowing wrote:
nope and nope, doesn't mean their are no victims though, as you claim.Jay wrote:
Does the drug dealer put a gun to the drug users head? No. Do you blame the liquor store for turning people into alcoholics?lowing wrote:
drug dealing and abuse are victimless crimes? Really? Families, society does not pay for those crimes?
Well we will just have to agree to disagree that drugs do not create victims.Jay wrote:
Yes, that's precisely what it means. Secondary and tertiary 'victims' are irrelevant. That's not the drug dealers problem. That's on the drug user. Just like visiting a prostitute while married is not the fault of the prostitute. She's not the reason the marriage subsequently fails. He is. He bears full responsibility, just like the drug user and alcoholic can't pass the blame off either.lowing wrote:
nope and nope, doesn't mean their are no victims though, as you claim.Jay wrote:
Does the drug dealer put a gun to the drug users head? No. Do you blame the liquor store for turning people into alcoholics?
So I'm supposed to be a mind reader and know intent? If I'm selling liquor I have to assume that the guy I'm selling to is going to get into his car and crash it into a bus full of nuns on their way back from nursing sick children back to health? Please. People are responsible for their own actions. If I sell the dude a gun, what he does afterwards has nothing to do with me (unless he tells me his intentions).Ilocano wrote:
Ok, make that a teenager wanting to go Columbine.Jay wrote:
Since when is a six year old capable of making their own decisions? Would you give a six year old a shot of Everclear? How about a cigarette? Please. Let's be a bit less hyperbolic with our arguments.Ilocano wrote:
If I sell a loaded handgun to a six year old for a dollar, it's not my fault what happens next?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Because selling illegal drugs requires a mind reader to know the consequences.Jay wrote:
So I'm supposed to be a mind reader and know intent? If I'm selling liquor I have to assume that the guy I'm selling to is going to get into his car and crash it into a bus full of nuns on their way back from nursing sick children back to health? Please. People are responsible for their own actions. If I sell the dude a gun, what he does afterwards has nothing to do with me (unless he tells me his intentions).Ilocano wrote:
Ok, make that a teenager wanting to go Columbine.Jay wrote:
Since when is a six year old capable of making their own decisions? Would you give a six year old a shot of Everclear? How about a cigarette? Please. Let's be a bit less hyperbolic with our arguments.
Hey kid, here, try this. it's free. Come back if you want more.
Yes, it does. Not everyone turns into a car stereo jacking junkie.Ilocano wrote:
Because selling illegal drugs requires a mind reader to know the consequences.Jay wrote:
So I'm supposed to be a mind reader and know intent? If I'm selling liquor I have to assume that the guy I'm selling to is going to get into his car and crash it into a bus full of nuns on their way back from nursing sick children back to health? Please. People are responsible for their own actions. If I sell the dude a gun, what he does afterwards has nothing to do with me (unless he tells me his intentions).Ilocano wrote:
Ok, make that a teenager wanting to go Columbine.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I don't want drugs banned, I want them legalized.Jay wrote:
The cartels that exist because people like you want drugs banned. That's rich.lowing wrote:
family members are victims, and so are people who are in the wrong place at the wrong time when the addicts are desperate for money for their next fix. I wonder if you would consider those innocent people killed caught in the crossfire with drug cartels as victims....Guess not.Uzique wrote:
how does a drug dealer produce 'victims'? it's a sale. people go there wanting a product and they buy it voluntarily. if they get addicted, surely that's their responsibility? how can a conservative with strong beliefs in american individualism imply some form of communal responsibility and blame for a drug addict? if you go and willingly buy drugs (and no one is ever forced to), then it's your fault if you become an addict. drug dealing in that sense is a victimless crime. everything else after that is your bias and conjecture putting shit on the guy that you don't know and don't have any evidence for. does that deserve death, then? well then i guess libel and copyright infringement are victimless crimes equally deserving of a firing squad
A fatal mistake, an accidental mix up in the house to be served a subpeona is one thing, but -
Medical care blocked for man killed by SWAT
http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/med … ed-by-swat
My God, the police are not only appearing inept in this article, they are appearing to withhold medical treatment for a man THEY WRONGFULLY SHOT!
how is defending your home a crime? when a SWAT team busts down the door?
Medical care blocked for man killed by SWAT
http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/med … ed-by-swat
My God, the police are not only appearing inept in this article, they are appearing to withhold medical treatment for a man THEY WRONGFULLY SHOT!
They appear to be hindering anyone else not directly involved to have access to a man they mortally wounded!KGUN9 News requested the emergency call records for Drexel Heights Fire Rescue. The 911 call center notified Drexel Heights at 9:43 a.m. A unit arrived just two minutes later at 9:45. However, deputies told rescue workers to stay put. That's standard to be sure they won't walk into a dangerous situation. But paramedics waited until 10:59 a.m. Then they heard the radio call "Code 900", which meant they were no longer needed because the person was dead.
how is defending your home a crime? when a SWAT team busts down the door?
Well it would be victimless crimes but we're forced to pay for those crimes cause of our criminal system. Which if you really think about it makes a crutch for the addicts.lowing wrote:
drug dealing and abuse are victimless crimes? Really? Families, society does not pay for those crimes?Jay wrote:
Where's the victim in dealing drugs? Oh right, there is none.lowing wrote:
I understand this, but like I have said time and time again, a criminal dying in the act of committing a crime does not bother me in the slightest. and please lets not include jay walking as a crime JUST LIKE a crime where there is a victim.
Also where do we find the Drug Dealers who give drugs away for free?
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2011-05-17 18:59:44)
In anti-drug commercials from the 80s. Duh.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Well it would be victimless crimes but we're forced to pay for those crimes cause of our criminal system. Which if you really think about it makes a crutch for the addicts.lowing wrote:
drug dealing and abuse are victimless crimes? Really? Families, society does not pay for those crimes?Jay wrote:
Where's the victim in dealing drugs? Oh right, there is none.
Also where do we find the Drug Dealers who give drugs away for free?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
the fact that drug dealers perform business transactions involving cash doesn't make it a crime with a victim.
if you buy a tv from an electronics store and then drop it when you get home and break it, did the store perform a crime against you?
if you buy a tv from an electronics store and then drop it when you get home and break it, did the store perform a crime against you?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
That's a good comparable. If some dude walks into an electronics store and purchases a large flat screen tv, which maxes out the family credit card, is it then the responsibility of the clerk if the guy can then not afford to put food on his families table? Of course not.Uzique wrote:
the fact that drug dealers perform business transactions involving cash doesn't make it a crime with a victim.
if you buy a tv from an electronics store and then drop it when you get home and break it, did the store perform a crime against you?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i wonder how many crackfiends that get pulled off the street snitch on their dealer and demand that the police go and find him because he's the cause and the person to blame for all their criminal behaviour... because he facilitated it. i imagine the same number of serial killers that blame the walmart clerk that sold them the steak knife that they used for their butchering. you people have abandoned all common legal sense.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Real Sports Right now is talking about Baseball banning chewing tobacco. Why is sports in Congress that's just a waste of money.
My story is my old roommate lives on Canfield Street and there's a Charles street behind him. Twice the Police have been to his house for a Warrant and For a Domestic Dispute. It's a smaller town in New Jersey but the police kept going to the wrong house and giving him grief cause they had the wrong address.
He told me the second time they were being really pushy.
My story is my old roommate lives on Canfield Street and there's a Charles street behind him. Twice the Police have been to his house for a Warrant and For a Domestic Dispute. It's a smaller town in New Jersey but the police kept going to the wrong house and giving him grief cause they had the wrong address.
He told me the second time they were being really pushy.
Analogies aside here's a simple test. Would you agree with the following statement:
"Drug-dealing is a victimless crime".
"Drug-dealing is a victimless crime".
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
there's no doubt that 'drugs' and drug-related crimes have 'victims', just like 'killing' and homicide-related crimes have victims. the operative and substantive thing, here, is that a drug user knows exactly what they're signing up for and potentially exposing themselves to when they willingly go to a drug dealer to solicit a sale. it's of their own volition, it's voluntary, it's optional... and it's their own personal choice and responsibility. are drug dealers criminals? undoubtedly. are they an ill to society? by popular morality, yes, which is somewhat arbitrary, but all the same. but what is the nature of their crime? essentially victimless. so deserving 71 rounds of automatic rifle fire? probably not.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Yes.Ty wrote:
Analogies aside here's a simple test. Would you agree with the following statement:
"Drug-dealing is a victimless crime".
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
If it were handled like Smoking or booze, yes. In the current world with the war on drugs everyone is a victim of drug dealing cause we're victims of the cost.Jay wrote:
Yes.Ty wrote:
Analogies aside here's a simple test. Would you agree with the following statement:
"Drug-dealing is a victimless crime".
that's like saying we're all victims of SWAT police because we're all 'victims' of their cost. that means every fucking thing is a crime because we're financial 'victims'. that's total bunk-shite and has nothing to do with the law. everything cost public taxpayer's money.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Uhh, how is the cost of it any different than the cost of sending an alcoholic to rehab or sending a smoker a box of nicotine patches? The war on drugs is just about the most absurd bullshit that's been foisted on us in the past hundred years. It's on par with Prohibition, is built on the same moral justifications, and has spawned the exact same sort of organized crime. It's time to end Nancy Reagan's War.cpt.fass1 wrote:
If it were handled like Smoking or booze, yes. In the current world with the war on drugs everyone is a victim of drug dealing cause we're victims of the cost.Jay wrote:
Yes.Ty wrote:
Analogies aside here's a simple test. Would you agree with the following statement:
"Drug-dealing is a victimless crime".
Edit - At least with Prohibition the government still worried about the constitutionality of their crusades enough to push for an amendment. They didn't even bother with drugs.
Last edited by Jay (2011-05-17 19:35:18)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
imagine they find out that cell phone use causes brain cancer only after 30 years
Tu Stultus Es
We are victims of the swat teams as well, we have made government death squads.
Booze and smoking is the consumers responsibility and not as rampant as the cost of rehabs, jail and half way houses for drug users.
Booze and smoking is the consumers responsibility and not as rampant as the cost of rehabs, jail and half way houses for drug users.