I'm surprised they'd serve a no-knock warrant in Arizona. There are a lot of guns in Arizona.
What connection between being a veteran and this incident are you trying to make? Does being a vet some how absolve you from any responsibility or wrong doing, or make you automatically a victim? Your OP stands, his status aa a vet has nothing to do with what happened.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.htmlHe didn't fire a single bullet at them:The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.
Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.
...
There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.
Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said.
The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home.
hah, yeah right, they'll say anything to clear themselves of wrongdoing
...
Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.
Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/pcso-swat-inci … -deputies/
What kind of warrant could they possibly have been serving that required what really amounts to a military assault on the house of an ordinary citizen? I'll eat my hat if it WASN'T a drug-related warrant.
e: seems it was drugs, and they actually kept EMTs from entering the home for an hour
http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/med … ed-by-swat
End the War on Drugs NOW.
Marion Barry was still on City Council under Fenty. Hence, still a joke. But yes, things were improving under Fenty. I was surprised to see that he got canned.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Things were improving under Fenty, but then he got the boot in exchange for Gray under the premise that he'd still improve the city, but including everyone from every ward. He's only been in office for a few months so it's hard to make a call, but we've already had a few corruption scandals. Guess it's back to 'bidness' as usual.FEOS wrote:
DC govt is a fucking joke. Ex: Marion Barry.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Cops here are OK, the real issue is with the government. All the people on the city council don't wanna upset the black people who vote them in by being tough on crime, especially youth crime (because it's always someone's son or nephew or grandkid). The DYRS (Dept of Youth Rehab Services) is a fucking joke and a revolving door.
Similar issues in Maryland as well. I like my state and DC for the most part but sometimes I want to move to Virginia.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
They were right to shoot him? He was defending his home against unknown invaders. The cops did not identify themselves so they could've been any form of home invader. It doesn't matter if it's an AR-15, A glock, or a blowgun, he has the right to defend his home.Macbeth wrote:
The cops were in the right to shoot the guy if he had an AR-15. Further more, you can't blame the police for doing what they were trained and drilled to do.
The real blame lies with the people who authorized the raid and who made enforcing (on that level) drugs laws a priority.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth... You've gotta be trolling with that first statement. I whole heartily agree with the second statement.
End SWAT raids for drug offenses. SWAT raids should be reserved for violent felons that have holed up. In this instance 3 officers hiding on the side of his home in the AM when he goes to work would have been sufficient. That or be waiting for him at work. This didn't have to happen and I blame those that signed off on this 'operation'.
End SWAT raids for drug offenses. SWAT raids should be reserved for violent felons that have holed up. In this instance 3 officers hiding on the side of his home in the AM when he goes to work would have been sufficient. That or be waiting for him at work. This didn't have to happen and I blame those that signed off on this 'operation'.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Police shouldn't be conducting paramilitary raids, there are better ways to deal with this kind of thing.
Fuck Israel
No. Not even then. Who's to say they have the right address for the 'violent felon'? It's no different than a drug raid.13rin wrote:
Macbeth... You've gotta be trolling with that first statement. I whole heartily agree with the second statement.
End SWAT raids for drug offenses. SWAT raids should be reserved for violent felons that have holed up. In this instance 3 officers hiding on the side of his home in the AM when he goes to work would have been sufficient. That or be waiting for him at work. This didn't have to happen and I blame those that signed off on this 'operation'.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I wasn't, he didn't kiss everybody's ass and he wasn't the friendliest guy. I guess "da people" would rather have a mayor who goes around shaking everybody's hands but doesn't get shit done instead of the other way around.FEOS wrote:
Marion Barry was still on City Council under Fenty. Hence, still a joke. But yes, things were improving under Fenty. I was surprised to see that he got canned.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Things were improving under Fenty, but then he got the boot in exchange for Gray under the premise that he'd still improve the city, but including everyone from every ward. He's only been in office for a few months so it's hard to make a call, but we've already had a few corruption scandals. Guess it's back to 'bidness' as usual.FEOS wrote:
DC govt is a fucking joke. Ex: Marion Barry.
Not to mention they just had anti-Fenty sentiment in general, I recall a councilwoman saying about Ward 7 or 8, "we don't need no bike lanes."
Eh, an innocent detail. Then again you're always the one bringing up when a person is a muslim, so you really are not one to talk.lowing wrote:
What connection between being a veteran and this incident are you trying to make? Does being a vet some how absolve you from any responsibility or wrong doing, or make you automatically a victim? Your OP stands, his status aa a vet has nothing to do with what happened.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.htmlHe didn't fire a single bullet at them:The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.
Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.
...
There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.
Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said.
The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home.
hah, yeah right, they'll say anything to clear themselves of wrongdoing
...
Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.
Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/pcso-swat-inci … -deputies/
What kind of warrant could they possibly have been serving that required what really amounts to a military assault on the house of an ordinary citizen? I'll eat my hat if it WASN'T a drug-related warrant.
e: seems it was drugs, and they actually kept EMTs from entering the home for an hour
http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/med … ed-by-swat
End the War on Drugs NOW.
Wow. Things changed quite a bit after I left in 09. Figured it couldn't last...I agreed with Fenty too much (Rhee, for example).
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Well Rhee's successor seems largely like her in terms of beliefs, she's a bit more personable though
Well in drug cases, police don't actually announce their presents cause then the perps will just flush the toilet and be good. The problem is that this happens to all people and police use lethal force. There has been an increase of raids for small drug charges and the likes where peoples dogs get shot and innocent people get killed.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
an innocent detail? You made it a part of the OP title, as if his being a veteran had anything to do with what happened. If it didn't, then why even mention it? (LOL, yeah if that Muslim does some bullshit in the name of his religion, I think it is worth mentioning )Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Eh, an innocent detail. Then again you're always the one bringing up when a person is a muslim, so you really are not one to talk.lowing wrote:
What connection between being a veteran and this incident are you trying to make? Does being a vet some how absolve you from any responsibility or wrong doing, or make you automatically a victim? Your OP stands, his status aa a vet has nothing to do with what happened.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html
He didn't fire a single bullet at them:
http://www.kvoa.com/news/pcso-swat-inci … -deputies/
What kind of warrant could they possibly have been serving that required what really amounts to a military assault on the house of an ordinary citizen? I'll eat my hat if it WASN'T a drug-related warrant.
e: seems it was drugs, and they actually kept EMTs from entering the home for an hour
http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/med … ed-by-swat
End the War on Drugs NOW.
and for everyone else here, take note as to how threads wind up about Islam....It ain't because of me
Nah you're the one always saying shit like "hmmm I wonder what religion he was." Just own up to it. You want the truth? I put that there cos I knew it would get a few more views. Sue me.
Sorry, but if this guy had "large sums of cash" along with an AR 15 in is home, well, this says to me that the cops had reasonable suspicion to send a SWAT team. If you want to sell small amounts of pot to high school kids, whatever, some cops honestly won't care. But if you're a "hardcore" drug dealer and own an assault weapon, you're looking for trouble, and you should expect to be killed in one way or another. Whether the cops announce their presence or not.
Last edited by Spearhead (2011-05-16 14:01:01)
Not sure this is part of "The War on Drugs." Particularly since this happens in non-drug cases, as well.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Well gee, you made it a point in your OP and the article mentions it a few times.... Sorry, I think you and the writer wants to make the fact this guy was a veteran relevant to the story....It ain't.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
Nah you're the one always saying shit like "hmmm I wonder what religion he was." Just own up to it. You want the truth? I put that there cos I knew it would get a few more views. Sue me.
The article really isnt that good... how much is "large"? A couple hundred for emergencies? Or a couple thousand?"large sum of money from another house"
Well a couple of thousand really isn't that much anymore... It's a dummy quote, like how they used to say "had the materials to make a bomb", which everyone technically does in there house.Spearhead wrote:
The article really isnt that good... how much is "large"? A couple hundred for emergencies? Or a couple thousand?"large sum of money from another house"
Brb, just called in a tip on your house.Spearhead wrote:
Sorry, but if this guy had "large sums of cash" along with an AR 15 in is home, well, this says to me that the cops had reasonable suspicion to send a SWAT team. If you want to sell small amounts of pot to high school kids, whatever, some cops honestly won't care. But if you're a "hardcore" drug dealer and own an assault weapon, you're looking for trouble, and you should expect to be killed in one way or another. Whether the cops announce their presence or not.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
another house, not hisSpearhead wrote:
The article really isnt that good... how much is "large"? A couple hundred for emergencies? Or a couple thousand?"large sum of money from another house"
http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/marin … tours-in-iThe two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene."Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"
Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.
Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.
The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.
The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"
A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
Jose GuerenaThis is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9 a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.
Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:
"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."
The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.
"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.
The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.
Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.
Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.
Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:
A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.
Last edited by Jay (2011-05-17 06:03:45)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Group panic, 71 bullets, who are these idiots?
Fuck Israel
People that should be put on trial for murder, but won't.Dilbert_X wrote:
Group panic, 71 bullets, who are these idiots?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat