unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

tldr
Bottom line is you think tax dollars should go to your clan and not another clan.

Tax deductibles don't work for everything, and only pay ~30%, not the full amount.
They don't work for private transport - and amazingly buses don't go everywhere and not everyone feels safe in remote areas in an old vehicle.

Education should be free, so should lots of things, in America and other countries they aren't.

This plan doesn't actually address anything and will only piss a significant number of people off.
Weren't you just mad on behalf of people who paid in full? Also, free education would probably cost more money than this $10k relief you are bent out of shape over. Would love free education to be a thing, but without significant change to the people in power, it doesn't seem likely to occur in this country.
uziq
Member
+492|3499
my clan? are you dumb? i paid off my student loans personally. i have no stake in this.

i think higher education is a reflection of a prosperous and advanced society. i think indebting 19 year olds with 6-figure debt for the sake of their higher education is sick, perverse; and moreover only benefits a very tiny ‘clan’ (as you have it).

stop trying to ‘gotcha!’ me over this issue. my beliefs and actions are actually perfectly integral with what i’m saying now. 

the real question, which recurs here often, is why you’re such a bitter twisted little cuckold. you’re not left wing. you’re a thatcherite.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6153|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

my clan? are you dumb? i paid off my student loans personally. i have no stake in this.
I'm talking about the guild of hipsters

you’re a thatcherite.
No I'm not.

Really this whole thing is stupid, its selective and divisive, will allow Republicans to say Democrats bribe their base and reward failure.

"So you bought a car and couldn't make the repayments? Have some govt money!"

"You bought a scooter and paid it off through hard work? Nothing for you"
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

We are stuck in a time-loop itt.

So now it's selective and divisive?! What about all the loan forgiveness in excess of 100 grand, dare I say 1 mil? Billionaire and corporate bailouts, loopholes, shelters. Too big to fail!

Who do you think in this country is calling a 10k break for students "selective and divisive?" Republicans and people Who Got Theirs, of course.

https://i.imgur.com/uGM7Blx.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6153|eXtreme to the maX
Loan forgiveness etc for the rich and privileged is a different issue and obviously completely shit.

I've said already a straightforward post-school education should be cheap and free to the user, and recouped through taxation just like mine.

Poorly thought out handouts are not necessarily the solution.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-08-29 05:32:04)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
Rich and privileged people don't have student loans. I am sure if they ran the numbers, and they definitely shouldn't, it will become clear the biggest winners would be low income people.


https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3499

Dilbert_X wrote:

Loan forgiveness etc for the rich and privileged is a different issue and obviously completely shit.

I've said already a straightforward post-school education should be cheap and free to the user, and recouped through taxation just like mine.

Poorly thought out handouts are not necessarily the solution.
it's not a poorly thought out handout though, is it? they made changes to the repayment structure. the $10k is just an additional bit of window dressing.

considering how much wealth has been handed out and redistributed - upwards, to the rich - in the last decade or so, i think it's hilarious that it's a tiny bung to students that gets you incensed.

sorry but all of your arguments about the poor oppressed blue-collar tradie, etc, are made in total bad faith. and you know it.

Last edited by uziq (2022-08-29 06:44:43)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

What's sad is this person is probably far more charitable than Jay, despite crawling up the economic ladder on government dime:

https://i.imgur.com/bTHTdzj.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

Loan forgiveness etc for the rich and privileged is a different issue and obviously completely shit.

I've said already a straightforward post-school education should be cheap and free to the user, and recouped through taxation just like mine.

Poorly thought out handouts are not necessarily the solution.
How long have we been on this now, like a page-and-a-half? Two? I don't remember you complaining as much about tax breaks for the wealthy in an entire year.

Small aid for students, the straw that broke the camel's back. luh-maooow

Look at the pushback against just this. Imagine if Biden abolished all student debt?

hooo-boy

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-08-29 08:15:15)

uziq
Member
+492|3499
40% of young people with student loans don't even have a completed degree. in the last 15-20 years there has been a bumper industry in private academies and shady schools that prey on the lowest income and communities which have traditionally been excluded from the middle-class degree track. a helluva lot of dodgy institutions, like the one set-up by 'mr. success story' trump himself.

the system has snared a helluva lot of people but i guess it offends the 'self-made millionaire' types.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

What's sad is this person is probably far more charitable than Jay, despite crawling up the economic ladder on government dime:

https://i.imgur.com/bTHTdzj.jpg
So she joined the military to escape poverty? Not very patriotic of her.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
National Review article complaining about the shortage of military recruits.


https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/08/ … ud-enough/


The comment section is a trip as usual. A lot of "the military is racist towards white people now" and "the government will pay for your school loans now so nobody wants to go." A little "millennials are not patriotic" too. Comments are kind of correct now that I think about it. You would have to be a sucker and/or loser to join the military.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

NR doesn't get to play the patriotism card by any stretch. Especially with its years of sucking up to tin-pot Trump and his squirreled away documents, possessive attitude towards the military, and utter derision for its personnel just for starters.

USO wrote:

Twenty years ago, on September 11, 2001, the United States came under attack. In response, 181,510 Americans enlisted in the ranks of active duty service, and 72,908 joined the enlisted reserves in the year following Sept. 11. Many of these brave service members claimed that it was 9/11 that inspired them to enlist.

https://www.uso.org/stories/2849-why-9- … e-military
How many of those were millennials, again? "Millennials aren't patriotic enough," lmao fuck off. Go join the military then. Oh, right, other people are supposed to take that plunge.

Completely fucking egregious. Who has time to humor the "patriotic arguments" of someone who is swayed by NR fare and worse. NR didn't even have the guts to put a name on the article.

The Editors
[email protected]
Get Author's RSS Feed
The Editors comprise the senior editorial staff of the National Review magazine and website.
Cowards.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
What most annoys me about the people who talk up patriotism is how they oftentimes combine it with disdain against wide classes of fellow citizens. I don't know how you can claim to be a patriot but also hate liberals, blue staters, the blacks, the gays, people in cities etc. all at the same time. A lot of professional patriots talk up defending people's freedom while also gravely opposing people making choices to do things with that freedom that they don't personally approve of. If military members want to be treated like an exalted warrior class, they should stay in their lane when it comes to what the artist and academics are up to.

For what it is worth, the current military leadership seems to understand public relations/civil military relations challenge they have. People roll their eyes at the military's attempts at rooting out sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism. But if they don't make the services appealing to modern Americans, the military will continue to have these recruitment problems. The top comment on the article about how white rural men are no longer the gold standard of the military's recruitment was spot on but not for the reason the poster thinks. White males under 18 are at about 20%. Literally not enough of them to staff institutions. In retrospect all of that Reaganism didn't work out.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
There are a handful of reasonable people on the NR boards. That post did have some good points from the people who were/are in the military. Usually it is the military people telling others to not be melodramatic about the cultural changes.

One good post.
I retired from the Army 25 years ago. During my career I lived through the implementation of random drug testing. Back then, if you were a senior NCO or officer and pissed hot you were gone. And it wasn't just drugs. If you were gay, you were gone. If you were fat, you were gone. If you didn't make rank, you were gone. All sorts of reasons to get tossed.
Like most things in the military, you either get along or you get out (voluntarily or involuntarily). I liken it to a game - you shine your boots, you speak with a loud, commanding voice, you keep yourself 'standing tall and looking good", and you play the game. As a friend of mine joked back in the day, "He couldn't put together two legos but he shines his boots and jumps out of airplanes so he's an exemplary troop." Some folks learn to play the game, some don't. To the point of the article, less people are willing to play the game.
Same thing happened in education. They tightened the requirements to become teachers and caused a shortage. Raising recruitment standards sounds nice but in practice such policies instead lead to personnel shortages.
...

Another good thing about the NR comment section on that board: female posters on the board asking the other posters "what is wrong with trying to stop sexual harassment?" Lmao.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

I was just about to bring that up before seeing your follow-up. You don't have to look very far to find ex-military who are 110% done with the fake-riots and the wheedling, disingenuous hero worship from Republicans using veterans to further their goals.

Not that there aren't brainwashed Republicans in or retired from the services, mind. Imagine believing they'll give you anything more than a token cent in terms of "better pay," while ripping away at social welfare programs.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

It's good to have some standards for teachers, but imo a lot of fault for underperformance comes from curriculum and the national obsession with test scores as a measuring stick for performance. Someone with a palpable dislike for teaching and children should probably consider getting a new job, but thought should be put into how someone even gets to that point. Even with some of the nastier teachers I've had, I don't think that many bad teachers get into teaching just so they can torture children.

I've listened to talks from professors and scientists saying their were terrible at being students, but once they got into doing research stuff just clicked. Saddling kids with a mountain of homework, so they can all sit in a district building and pat themselves on the back with power point presentations or whatever, while their young charges languish. Reprehensible. Different people learn differently, and that people who learn differently are often left behind.

This all in addition to stuff we've talked about before, social ills and the distraction of poverty and a malnourished brain impacting student performance.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
I am sure there are soldiers who dislike being co-opted by the right wing.


"Differentiated instruction" is a real thing but it is super time consuming to make two or three versions of the same lesson. For low performing kids you can stick them in special classes but you will need more special education teachers with $40,000 specialized graduate degrees. The admin gets blamed for too much.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
"Elizabeth Warren gets confronted on live TV by an angry father over student loans"

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout … _tv_by_an/


Reddit comment brought up something I didn't consider yet.
I think it's also part of two cultural phenomena:

Gatekeeping where the purpose of an education is simply securing status. This guy paid for his kids education as a way to make sure they have access to other high status folks and to network. Education for all devalues that exclusive access.

And a zero-sum mindset where anyone else's success has to come at some cost (ever winner makes a loser).
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

SuperJail Warden wrote:

"Elizabeth Warren gets confronted on live TV by an angry father over student loans"

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout … _tv_by_an/


Reddit comment brought up something I didn't consider yet.
I think it's also part of two cultural phenomena:

Gatekeeping where the purpose of an education is simply securing status. This guy paid for his kids education as a way to make sure they have access to other high status folks and to network. Education for all devalues that exclusive access.

And a zero-sum mindset where anyone else's success has to come at some cost (ever winner makes a loser).
I'm just sitting here thinking of how risky it is to mingle a politician in this manner. What if this guy had a knife or something and more of a violent bone to pick.

Bit of Warren trivia, she an ex-Republican.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

uziq wrote:

https://twitter.com/blakezeff/status/1564375094092259332?s=21&t=Q27-wn22I1qh1kybFnLFoA
People want to hate without analyzing. Scratch the itch without using your brain. College students are just one of many hate sinks for this.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I am sure there are soldiers who dislike being co-opted by the right wing.


"Differentiated instruction" is a real thing but it is super time consuming to make two or three versions of the same lesson. For low performing kids you can stick them in special classes but you will need more special education teachers with $40,000 specialized graduate degrees. The admin gets blamed for too much.
You're right, I shouldn't lay all the blame on administration, and at the end of the day I really don't. They have expectations placed on them, too. But I spent a high school year pretty much interning for them in all but official (paid) capacity, and my insight from that is a bit of a weight when it comes to thinking of them more fairly.

The actual task of crunching numbers and putting them into visual formats was actually kind of fun. Realizing too that I knew more about the inner workings of Office than the school staff bringing me stuff to do. As a job, I'm sure it would have lost its appeal in time.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3767
North Carolina says it will tax Biden's student loan forgiveness, and 3 more states are likely to follow suit
https://www.businessinsider.com/north-c … xed-2022-9
A real self own. Way to go. You showed me.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6819|PNW

An AI-Generated Artwork Won First Place at a State Fair Fine Arts Competition, and Artists Are Pissed
Jason Allen's AI-generated work "Théâtre D'opéra Spatial" took first place in the digital category at the Colorado State Fair.
https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/bvm … are-pissed

“I knew this would be controversial,” Allen said in the Midjourney Discord server on Tuesday. “How interesting is it to see how all these people on Twitter who are against AI generated art are the first ones to throw the human under the bus by discrediting the human element! Does this seem hypocritical to you guys?”
Screw this guy's attitude. Dishonestly snaps up a prize and snarks to people about them being hypocrites for being upset. It's like someone on a game site complaining that their tool-assisted speedrun, run by a bot, is disliked by the community.

AI compositions should entirely compete in their own category, if at all, and only when they're original work not plucking things directly from other people's efforts. I've played with some of these programs and have seen some very familiar compositions and traces of watermarks and signatures that didn't get entirely erased.

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