Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Maybe we should decriminalise theft, I mean, no-one is actually harmed and its all covered by insurance.
Why punish thieves? Its senseless. They only do it for the endorphin rush.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
Some cities stopped prosecuting thefts under $500. This has lead to an explosion of flash mob robberies where upwards of 10, 20, 30, strangers show up to loot a store.

Awful situation. Awful for minority communities. Awful for race relations when you see this sort of semi-organized crime.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3422

Dilbert_X wrote:

Maybe we should decriminalise theft, I mean, no-one is actually harmed and its all covered by insurance.
Why punish thieves? Its senseless. They only do it for the endorphin rush.
you seriously struggle with the concept of ‘victimhood’. a drug user only harms themselves. theft involves … um … taking from an innocent third party.

why does this amaze you so much? your body/mind belong to you. they are not the property of the state. you should be able to do whatever you want with it, in the privacy of your own home and without harassing anyone else, of course.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Drug users harm multiple people in the supply chain and multiple people around them.

Why won't you take responsibility for your actions?
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Some cities stopped prosecuting thefts under $500. This has lead to an explosion of flash mob robberies where upwards of 10, 20, 30, strangers show up to loot a store.

Awful situation. Awful for minority communities. Awful for race relations when you see this sort of semi-organized crime.
Africans have brought that scheme to Australia.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

If we're all going to be honest here, theft is one of the things that funds drug addiction. But this also includes alcoholism.

Murder and terror probably wouldn't become socially acceptable with conditional legalizations of recreational drugs. A detriment to your own arguments to suppose they would.

Cities not caring about small-time theft isn't new. Even years ago, you'd probably have more luck getting results from reporting a power tool stolen from your company than you would your personal bicycle.
uziq
Member
+492|3422

Dilbert_X wrote:

Drug users harm multiple people in the supply chain and multiple people around them.

Why won't you take responsibility for your actions?
you purchase any one of about 200 things that 'harm people in the supply chain'.

i'm sorry but it's not the same as 'rape and murder'. you're just going to have to find a different argument.

decriminalizing/legalizing drugs would fix a lot of problems with said shady supply chains.

amazing isn't it!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

If we're all going to be honest here, theft is one of the things that funds drug addiction. But this also includes alcoholism.
Exactly, drug use has multiple impacts on society, theft and robbery for example.

bUt iF It w3re L3gAl theR3d be n0 crImE

Doesn't seem to help with alcohol related crime

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-12-01 16:48:20)

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uziq
Member
+492|3422
nobody is claiming that making drugs legal or decriminalizing them would solve crime.

drug addiction is obviously implicated in poverty, in broken lives, in dysfunctional families, in shattered communities, etc.

society won't magically be healed and it won't address the root cause of these issues (hint: it's seldom drugs themselves).

not punishing someone who falls foul of drug addiction, in an old testament moralizing way, and not further ruining people's lives who are aleady at 'rock bottom', so to speak, would probably be a good thing, though.

isn't it weird that all the medical professionals, drug counsellors, addiction experts, etc, think that punishing drug addicts is the absolute worst strategy? all you do is push someone further out of society and deeper into their life-threatening problems.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
When have I said people should be punished?

All I've said is it shouldn't be legalised because, as you say, it won't achieve anything.
Adjust the penalties for addicted users maybe.

But thats not actually your endgame, you want a smorgasbord of psychoactive substances available on a whim without penalty for your Friday night.
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uziq
Member
+492|3422
it will achieve a huge thing, which is changing society's attitudes towards people with drug problems. people who need help and compassion, not criminalization, which only fixes them in a cycle of misery, relapse, and reoffending.

i already have a smorgasbord of psychoactive substances available on a friday night. WHAT are you not getting about this?!? people who want to take drugs already do so, very easily. all the illegality does is make it unnecessarily dangerous. lol. for fuck's sake. THE DRUGS ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

Dilbert_X wrote:

But thats not actually your endgame, you want a smorgasbord of psychoactive substances available on a whim without penalty for your Friday night.
You're a very confused fellow, either you're not reading what I've written or you're confabulating things in your head.

People have their views, changing the law won't change people's minds.

"The govt is banning abortion? Well it must be because abortion is bad and banning it is right"
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uziq
Member
+492|3422
what is the logic of penalising people taking a drug, which can be consumed safely with the right precautions, in a nightclub?

it's not dancers on MDMA or people smoking weed who create problems in city centres every weekend.

i could understand penalizing someone who engages in anti-social behaviour. like your average drunk, for example.

you have a basically moral outlook, completely disconnected from medical or scientific reasoning. you'll have to figure it out.

no idea what your last two paragraphs are even about, to be honest. couldn't care less about 'people's views'. people should mind their own business, nobody is forcing them to take drugs or be around drug users.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
We've done this, MDMA and 'weed' have problems of psychosis etc, and they aren't the only drugs people like you take.

It would be great if drug users would mind their own business, but their taking drugs has impacts beyond them.

So basically you don't care what other people think - you want your drugs.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Alcohol-induced psychotic disorder, among substance use disorders, is a thing. Much of the arguments you make against drugs you very carefully avoid applying to your own drug of choice. Sensory hallucinosis among the complications.

The people using MDMA and weed are probably going to also be drinkers.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
As I keep saying, if alcohol were invented today it would be made illegal.

That its currently legal - and heavily taxed to discourage use - isn't an argument for making other drugs legal.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Evidence of opium use like 5000+ years ago. Tobacco likewise in use for thousands of years, though at first it was a sign of DeMoNiC pOsSeSsIoN when the habit was brought to Europe. Alcohol isn't "unique" in having been in use for a long time. If you want to go back even further to rotten fruit, fine, but I'd think you'd be more comfortable with a drink made with modern processes than a rotting apple harvested off the ground in neighbor's yard.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
OK, lets make heroin legal then, each workplace is going to need a shooting up room.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Is anyone making any argument or inroads to that effect? Government-mandated heroin lounge at the your insurance office, rofl.

Come on, you're almost there. Giving people with addictions to these drugs safe places to go, staffed by experienced people, and adjacent to treatment seems a darn sight better than having a bunch of people shooting up in the city park or otherwise having to do it on the sly.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
If people are so fucked up they're injecting drugs then really hospital is the place for them.
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uziq
Member
+492|3422
what can a hospital do for a heroin addict? what's the use in spending resources in that way?

none of your thinking on this topic has any sound rationality. it's literally nonsensical. you act on emotions and moral judgments about it.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Drinking at a bar under the watch of a licensed bartender is probably better than getting plastered at the bus station. I'm glad there's legal places for people to go do drink.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

Drunk bozo falls into ring of fire after picking fight with ladies
https://nypost.com/2021/11/18/drunk-man … th-ladies/

Why are drunks like this?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

what can a hospital do for a heroin addict? what's the use in spending resources in that way?

none of your thinking on this topic has any sound rationality. it's literally nonsensical. you act on emotions and moral judgments about it.
Erm injecting stuff intravenously should generally be done under medical supervision I think.

These people should be in treatment, not wandering the streets and mixing up goo to inject themselves with.
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uziq
Member
+492|3422
it's almost as if public health systems have been dealing constructively with this problem for decades, and politicians keep interfering with a proven good process.

a hospital bed is ridiculously expensive per night. even more expensive than a space in a rehab facility, which, in itself, is surely beyond the means of most homeless people. it's hilarious that you're against the idea of taxpayer-funded 'injection sites' but advocate for putting them in a fucking precious hospital space... at a princely cost of about £23,000 per night.

leave this one to the experts i think chap.

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