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Its not reasonable to punch down on people who have nothing like the options most of us had and are doing jobs we didn't imagine could exist.

Few people have any prospect of becoming a professional these days as the professional class keep their money to themselves and offshore what they can.

Industrialisation should have delivered a leisured utopia, in fact it hasn't, its delivered even worse wage slavery as people have to invent their own new menial and degrading jobs and then do them themselves.

Well there are some people who choose what they think is an easy path through life, those people deserve some scorn.

I imagine cam-girls realise its drudgery quite fast.

Its also funny how many misogynists who casually use and abuse vulnerable girls are quick to ridicule incels.

Regarding sex work as a profession:

I wouldn't want anyone I share blood with getting into sex work at any level. That said, the way society and even people here treat the whole thing is very distasteful.

First, not every girl in sex work is a victim desperate for escape. Sex work can sometimes be an escape. These girls can have agency and make rational choices just like we do. A stripper in Manhattan could make more money than any of us. A girl living in rural Tennessee making $2 an hour + tips who decides to move to NYC to work a pole for $80,000 a year made, by the logic of economics and the god of capitalism Americans worship, a good decision.

Secondly, there are a lot of people who just lack the fundamental brain power to work professional jobs that we hold up as ideal. Again it is privileged to look down on a girl who can't do math but was gifted with good looks who uses what she has to make good money.

Finally, again drugs. A professional who also sells some cocaine on the side has done more harm than the vast sum of sex workers. A girl riding an inflatable unicorn on Twitch has done less to support the mass murder of brown people than lawyers powdering their noses at nightclubs before getting a blowjob from some girl they just met. We treat that lawyer like an alpha male but the Twitch girl is treated like a dummy/victim.

DesertFox- wrote:

When did incels enter the mix? It would be an overestimate to call every twitch viewer an incel because not all are dropping hundos so some girl will say thanks to xXx*Sephiroth*xXx or WeedLordBonerHitler. Most people probably don't have unhealthy para social relationships with the people they watch, but we know that can happen and affect actual boundaries of viewers feeling like the streamer is their friend. That disparity is what leads to stalking streamers instead of developing meaningful relationships that are actually a two-way street.

That said, you can be ugly and still not be a goddamn incel™ troglodyte. Even if one is actually involuntarily celibate at present, they can still work on self-improvement and social skills to develop personal relationships instead of falling down the rabbit hole to misogyny. Participating in hookup culture isn't a requirement, either, since there are more ways to exist than two extremes.

He just needs to work on developing social skills.

I wonder what some of the common experiences of the "forever alone simps" are. Like did most of them have stifling helicopter parents who didn't let them have girlfriends or make their own decisions?

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its not reasonable to punch down on people who have nothing like the options most of us had and are doing jobs we didn't imagine could exist.

Few people have any prospect of becoming a professional these days as the professional class keep their money to themselves and offshore what they can.

Industrialisation should have delivered a leisured utopia, in fact it hasn't, its delivered even worse wage slavery as people have to invent their own new menial and degrading jobs and then do them themselves.

Nobody is punching down on people who don't have opportunities, let's be clear here. But I'm not about to entertain the notion that the options in today's society are between being da vinci or a career in porn. There are plenty of reasonably paid or even highly paid professions that do not necessarily require enormous intellectual investment. You can find succes in all sorts of pursuits without the need for doctorate-level education, though it's generally a given that you need to develop a certain competence. Examples: diver welders, mechanics who can work on electrical vehicles, a secretary worth a damn, a nurse, a fireman, or even just a great hairdresser - all these people are sought after, useful, decently to well paid and to state it dryly contribute meaningfully to the world around them. Apart from that you can have your own secondary pursuits, be it in art or music, sports, something else, might not pay bills but nonetheless important to personal growth and development. As is building and expanding personal relationships with friends, family etc. As we were talking about the 'value of a person' I suppose I consider all that to be important.

Consider the above when someone enters a porn career. There's exceptions, but the overwhelming majority are in porn simply for what I said last page: to get rich quick and find easy money (possibly at the expense of others' desperation). The poor of the developing and third world are exempt here, but it's generally true for those in the west who resort to the porn option. The pursuit of the material & selfish takes precedence over all else. There might be underlying psychological issues as well, though those are not in themselves explanatory. It's a vacuous choice of a personal/career path that leaves you with no meaningful expertise or personal development & that will probably strain/destroy your close relationships, even long after you exit porn. Sure you may still be able to develop some secondary pursuits, but I don't think that can really compensate much here. It's just an unthinking path.

Yes you can say similar or worse things about other paths in life or choices that people make.

Last edited by Larssen (2021-05-25 11:56:30)

i’m sorry but i can’t take macbeth’s ‘uzique your lifestyle is misogynist’ stuff seriously. don’t you moderate several porno subreddits? who is the misogynist here? you are literally the bridge between those ‘nice young boys’ who pay streamers to watch them play skyrim and the darker, lonelier types who see women as sacks of meat.

i’ve never put cocaine up my nose and had sex with a korean girl. why does it have to be the case that i can’t make genuine friends or connections here? but the guys paying women for sex are nice and respectful but just *checks notes* developmentally challenged? LMAO okay all the johns of this world are just autistic, that’s all. if anything we should sympathise and be nice to them, not the sex workers who are only after all *re-checks notes* superlative workers and capitalists.

if you want to talk about palpable harm, shouldn’t you stop taking developmentally challenged assistants into supply rooms? is that what this is about, some displacement activity for your guilt? shouldn’t you stop sleeping with women who are married or in long-term relationships? haven’t you bragged about before? a model of decency and decorum, i see.

we get it, porn has a disproportionately large place in your life. it’s actually only for very nice, sensitive young souls who shouldn’t be picked on by ‘alpha chads’. it’s not as if there hasn’t been oodles of psychological research which points out the harms of porn and sex work, and their direct relation to assault and violence.

Last edited by uziq (2021-05-25 15:14:37)

lol ok. disassociating doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

also i haven’t done a hard drug in 1.5 years at least. when did you last partake in the objectification of women?

Last edited by uziq (2021-05-25 18:14:00)

uziq wrote:

also i haven’t done a hard drug in 1.5 years at least.

Well done, I'd ask how long it takes for the pangs of conscience for the people who died, were mutilated or terrorised as part of the supply chain but I know you don't have a conscience.

when did you last partake in the objectification of women?

Objectification of women has been going on a while, and its a two-way street.

Larssen wrote:

You can find succes in all sorts of pursuits without the need for doctorate-level education, though it's generally a given that you need to develop a certain competence. Examples: diver welders, mechanics who can work on electrical vehicles, a secretary worth a damn, a nurse, a fireman, or even just a great hairdresser - all these people are sought after, useful, decently to well paid and to state it dryly contribute meaningfully to the world around them.

Yes, all you need is a work ethic and firm handshake.

Many people just don't get on that first rung, they don't have the opportunities or miss a step due to poor parenting, a mistake or external events which dumped on them.

Where would uziq be today if he'd been sent down from university with a conviction for violence and class A drug possession?
No degree and a bleak future would be my guess.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Larssen wrote:

You can find succes in all sorts of pursuits without the need for doctorate-level education, though it's generally a given that you need to develop a certain competence. Examples: diver welders, mechanics who can work on electrical vehicles, a secretary worth a damn, a nurse, a fireman, or even just a great hairdresser - all these people are sought after, useful, decently to well paid and to state it dryly contribute meaningfully to the world around them.

Yes, all you need is a work ethic and firm handshake.

Many people just don't get on that first rung, they don't have the opportunities or miss a step due to poor parenting, a mistake or external events which dumped on them.

Where would uziq be today if he'd been sent down from university with a conviction for violence and class A drug possession?
No degree and a bleak future would be my guess.

i didn't take any class A drugs in university, let alone possess them; i wouldn't have even known where to acquire them. i was 19 years old living on a campus university in rural surrey. not exactly on the narco trade winds. we took legal research chemicals. hence why i was never found guilty of anything. and 'conviction for violence' i've never been in a fight or raised my hand to anyone in my life and don't intend to change that.

i worked incredibly hard to graduate. i graduated top of my class with a scholarship. are you suggesting i had innate 'privilege' and was waived through? has it ever occurred to you that i applied myself and came back from a personal setback? nope, guess it's just 'white privilege'.

many people have 'external events dumped on them'? do you really need to talk to me about difficult external events? i have held down a job and successfully been promoted throughout my 20s despite going through hell. but maybe because i'm a white male that all counts for nothing?

amazing how you choose to sound like an intersectional trans-lesbian feminist quoting left-wing dogma when it suits you.