Larssen
Member
+99|1885
Physical passports are already filling the tracking/exclusion checkmark.

I reckon it's only a matter of time before these services too become completely digital anyway.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
Yeah, they'll be able to link your tax records, social media posts, driving licence, playlists etc.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3450
that's been a de jure reality in china for ages and a de facto reality in the west.

tech companies have all the data and profiles rather than the government (officially, at least; the intelligence services have whatever they want from the tech companies).

tilting at windmills a bit with your fear of QR code sign-ins. they've been an absolute staple of track and trace programmes in taiwan and south korea, and used widely in europe too. if you want to move around during a pandemic, be in public places, enjoy public amenities, etc, then you need to register you were there.

your alternative is 'lock everything down and stop all international flights en masse'. how is that a better solution for anyone involved?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

Solomon Islands set to ban Facebook in the name of 'national unity'
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-23/ … y/12910786

The Solomon Islands Government has defended its decision to place a temporary ban on Facebook, a move it says is aimed at tackling cyberbullying and online defamation.

The ban, which has not yet come into effect, received an angry response online after it was announced last week.

Communications officials are expected to meet with internet and telecommunications providers in Solomon Islands to discuss how they will block the world's largest social media network.

Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare told the nation's Parliament the ban was necessary in order to preserve national unity.

"Cyberbullying on Facebook is widespread, people have been defamed by users who use fake names, and people's reputations that have been built up over the years [are destroyed] in a matter of minutes," he said.
---

Unrelated, I'd be all for extensive track and trace over universal lockdown. At this point it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to, for the sake of getting the pandemic under control, connect my phone with a computerized doorkeeper on my way into a business, or get eyeballed by a fever cam. Sadly that sort of thing would push more than a few blithering Americans into dangerous public freakouts. Thanks a lot, conspiracy media.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3717

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Solomon Islands set to ban Facebook in the name of 'national unity'
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-23/ … y/12910786

The Solomon Islands Government has defended its decision to place a temporary ban on Facebook, a move it says is aimed at tackling cyberbullying and online defamation.

The ban, which has not yet come into effect, received an angry response online after it was announced last week.

Communications officials are expected to meet with internet and telecommunications providers in Solomon Islands to discuss how they will block the world's largest social media network.

Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare told the nation's Parliament the ban was necessary in order to preserve national unity.

"Cyberbullying on Facebook is widespread, people have been defamed by users who use fake names, and people's reputations that have been built up over the years [are destroyed] in a matter of minutes," he said.
---

Unrelated, I'd be all for extensive track and trace over universal lockdown. At this point it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to, for the sake of getting the pandemic under control, connect my phone with a computerized doorkeeper on my way into a business, or get eyeballed by a fever cam. Sadly that sort of thing would push more than a few blithering Americans into dangerous public freakouts. Thanks a lot, conspiracy media.
I think a piece of police reform we can do in America is to expand the use of CCTV cameras like they have in the U.K. The cameras are at least a small deterrent to crime. Less crime overall will lead to fewer police encounters which is something we should strive for. Pretty funny that it is in the best interest of society for police to interact with civilians as little as possible. Don't even make eye contact.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6630|949

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Solomon Islands set to ban Facebook in the name of 'national unity'
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-23/ … y/12910786

The Solomon Islands Government has defended its decision to place a temporary ban on Facebook, a move it says is aimed at tackling cyberbullying and online defamation.

The ban, which has not yet come into effect, received an angry response online after it was announced last week.

Communications officials are expected to meet with internet and telecommunications providers in Solomon Islands to discuss how they will block the world's largest social media network.

Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare told the nation's Parliament the ban was necessary in order to preserve national unity.

"Cyberbullying on Facebook is widespread, people have been defamed by users who use fake names, and people's reputations that have been built up over the years [are destroyed] in a matter of minutes," he said.
---

Unrelated, I'd be all for extensive track and trace over universal lockdown. At this point it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to, for the sake of getting the pandemic under control, connect my phone with a computerized doorkeeper on my way into a business, or get eyeballed by a fever cam. Sadly that sort of thing would push more than a few blithering Americans into dangerous public freakouts. Thanks a lot, conspiracy media.
Two thoughts here:

I'm always very skeptical of a government's desire to ban speech, no matter the motive.  Banning Facebook over cyberbullying concerns seems excessive, but I have zero exposure and knowledge of Solomon society so I can't really put this into context except to express concern.

I'm all for a track and trace as long as there are mechanisms built in for protecting and restricting data. I understand the amount of data I share, but there are at least foundational legal firewalls behind the sharing of private data with government entities. Simple geolocation and close contact mapping should be no issue.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

I think government entities prying into your personal data is going to be a forever fight anyway. I'd be less concerned about that than cybercrime, but then again 260,000+ dead Americans seems like a pretty big crime of negligence already.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

that's been a de jure reality in china for ages and a de facto reality in the west.

tech companies have all the data and profiles rather than the government (officially, at least; the intelligence services have whatever they want from the tech companies).

tilting at windmills a bit with your fear of QR code sign-ins. they've been an absolute staple of track and trace programmes in taiwan and south korea, and used widely in europe too. if you want to move around during a pandemic, be in public places, enjoy public amenities, etc, then you need to register you were there.

your alternative is 'lock everything down and stop all international flights en masse'. how is that a better solution for anyone involved?
I'm OK signing into a restaurant with part of my name.

I'm not super keen on having a QR code assigned individually to me by the government that anyone can demand to scan.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3450
you already have one of those. it’s called a national insurance number.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
Yeah I don't just give my NI number to every shop I go into.

What happens to my data?
Many electronic check-ins are outsourced to registration platforms that are often owned by companies that deal in collecting data.

Some of these operate under opaque rules about how that information is stored and used.

Digital privacy advocates say it's often unclear what happens to the collected data and that some private companies may be vacuuming up huge numbers of names, emails and phone numbers.

There are concerns data could potentially be resold, used for identity fraud or to track a person's location and social groups, and employed in micro-targeted advertising for misinformation campaigns.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/ … s/12912158

Sounds great.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3450
i think it’s incredibly quaint that you don’t think you already have any number of data points or ‘unique identifiers’ that show just where you go.

your credit/debit card, or contactless phone payment, coupled with cell/GPS data, could pretty well easily enough instantly build a picture. your bank ID and phone receiver are already pretty well uniquely tied to you, legally if not practically.

as i said, this data all exists anyway. it’s like people who get worried about ‘internet privacy’ whilst all the while giving social media platforms and websites just about the most detailed picture of their lives possible, anyway. facebook can build a psychological profile of you that is the envy of any police investigator or detective.

like i said in my first post, where in china all this is explicitly within the remit of the state, in western countries the tech companies have the power and the state either politely asks for it or just subpoenas/takes it anyway via intelligence services. de jure, de facto.

your government can already fairly well know everywhere you’ve been, they’re just being polite about the privacy issues. what exactly is the great danger of you logging on with your phone when you go to a restaurant, exactly?

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-24 01:28:49)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

I'm sure it will be a great revelation to the aussie authorities that dilbert is once again eating out at that place with the greek guy who wants to hug people. Important stuff.

I'm all for data privacy and being worried about id theft and all that, but normal countermeasures should be enough for most cases. Some of it is always going to be out of your hands. Absolutists should just go off the grid.
uziq
Member
+492|3450
yep, i agree. data protection laws are there and the proper measures/protocols should be observed.

but even phone companies, which have a cornucopia of data and tracking information on us, routinely lose such data.

the bojo cretin appointed to lead our national track and trace system is the disgraced former CEO of a major cell company that ... lost reams of data.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 … ber-attack
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

Sigh.

Good (or at least different) times ahead though, maybe?

Utah helicopter crew discovers mysterious metal monolith deep in the desert
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/utah- … index.html

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/q_auto,w_727,c_fit/http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F201123234120-utah-monolith-02.jpg

Also, she still (made) a full year for two months work. Ugh.
uziq
Member
+492|3450
that story is a few years old. the new one is that she's been appointed to lead a national scheme with no proper advertising/selection process. pure cronyism. people like that can fail upwards their entire life.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

Dilbert's arbitrarily-assigned BF2S id is now 372-3992-7383. Please keep it to yourselves, or Indian hackers may use it to look up his anime history on netflix. Keys to the kingdom.

e:

uziq wrote:

that story is a few years old. the new one is that she's been appointed to lead a national scheme with no proper advertising/selection process. pure cronyism. people like that can fail upwards their entire life.
Saw the date. Still shameless, of course she "moved up."
uziq
Member
+492|3450
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

Huh. Why is it always the physics professors?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

yep, i agree. data protection laws are there and the proper measures/protocols should be observed.

but even phone companies, which have a cornucopia of data and tracking information on us, routinely lose such data.

the bojo cretin appointed to lead our national track and trace system is the disgraced former CEO of a major cell company that ... lost reams of data.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 … ber-attack
Great, so lets not give them any more data to 'lose' and I'd certainly prefer it if the Chinese govt didn't have it either.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

What sensitive info could there be that can't already be gleaned from facebook and instagram and tiktok and whatnot? If you're worried about medical privacy, all a readout has to do is say access granted or denied (go home/to a doctor). I don't know how the Chinese could use a bunch of perhaps anonymized info to overthrow The West.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
Plenty, like where I go, what I do and who I meet for starters, none of which I put on social media which I don't have.

Its not really anonymised if it includes your name, mobile number, email address and phone IP is it really?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3717

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Sigh.

Good (or at least different) times ahead though, maybe?

Utah helicopter crew discovers mysterious metal monolith deep in the desert
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/utah- … index.html

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/q_auto,w_727,c_fit/http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F201123234120-utah-monolith-02.jpg

Also, she still (made) a full year for two months work. Ugh.
I am pretty sure I fought a helicopter there in Half Life.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

Plenty, like where I go, what I do and who I meet for starters, none of which I put on social media which I don't have.

Its not really anonymised if it includes your name, mobile number, email address and phone IP is it really?
All of those examples can be encoded data not readable by a clerk beyond a simple "yes" or "no." Some of that is information people would willingly tell a clerk on checkout. "Phone number," "John Doe, is this correct? OK you can insert the card now." is fairly routine and usually devoid of creepiness. What spooks me way more is unchecked, unmonitored spread of this life and economy-destroying virus in part thanks to some antique, quasi-luddite fear of a new kind of ID system which could be legislated into discontinuity later on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of e-privacy. But I'm also on the side of people sucking it up on some of their conspiratorial fears and maybe accepting a measure that will reduce the spread of the greater inconvenience of a horrible, lethal virus, and the economic damage that comes from its unchecked spread. Next to that, stressing out about the possibility of a Chinese webshop getting your email (as if spam worldwide hasn't been an issue before 2020) seems a little petty.

Do you take your phone with you on car trips?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
A shop doesn't need my name, email, phone IP and mobile number, one of them maybe.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

What's the friendly greek restaurant guy going to do with your phone IP? With this stuff computerized, he shouldn't even need to ask. The convenience of contact tracing I think outweighs the tin foil hat factor.

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