uziq
Member
+492|3422
by the way why did the russian state refuse to launch an investigation into this? wouldn't it exonerate them? if someone else had been carrying novichok into deep Siberia? that stuff leaves a nasty trail, right? how was it administered to him? why won't russian authorities investigate the poisoning of a high-profile politician? why aren't people at the airport, on the airplane, in the cafe, etc, being questioned?

why this emphasis on him 'having an undiagnosed glucose condition?' that's patently false and has been shown to be so by the german tests. isn't there an obvious lead here for an investigation? come on russia! catch the nefarious western intelligence psyops agencies in their tracks! embarrass them!

strange that you can invent a vaccine for covid-19 in 3 weeks but can't detect traces of a lethal chemical weapon that you yourselves invented, isn't it? but that's exactly the point in the 3d-chess-playing russian game! anything that's too plausible or too obvious must be false! up means down! left is right!

Last edited by uziq (2020-09-02 12:56:41)

Larssen
Member
+99|1857
In defence of the doctor at the siberian hospital I don't think they had the right equipment or facilities to determine it was novichok even if they tried, being hard to detect and all.
uziq
Member
+492|3422
i'm referring to the russian government's announcement that they will not investigate. i'm not blaming some provincial chekhov.

if it's so clearly a conspiracy, or an outright lie, and the germans are up to something ... call their bluff? launch an investigation? they are saying that a lethal chemical weapon has been used. erm, why aren't there guys in hazmat suits at the cafe? the airport? contact tracing the airline passengers? russia could easily prove or disprove the presence of this substance. but they have already said they have no intention of doing so. why not? does not. make. any. sense.

as i see it, the entire skripal-salisbury conspiracy hinged on the fact that the 'uk intelligence services' and 'porton down' chemical lab were behind the investigation ... so who can know the truth? etc. very easy for russia to sow doubt and suspicion there. but this happened IN RUSSIA, entirely within their own jurisdiction. novichok, or sarin, or whatever, would leave a trail of contamination. a cup? how was it administered? how did it get into his stomach? why aren't russia fucking investigating? lmao. they could easily take control of the narrative if they were genuinely innocent. a serious crime has been committed against a very public figure! and they don't care! shahter says 'hmm, it might not even be novichok as they say it is' ... as if the crime scene is in salisbury still! it's in russia! go and have a fucking look! haha.

Last edited by uziq (2020-09-02 14:26:14)

Larssen
Member
+99|1857
Ah but while he was in Russia his diagnosis was simply a sudden gastrointestinal issue. Why investigate? Then he gets flown to Germany and it is novichok! Clearly, the Germans being part of NATO, they have an anti-Russian agenda and it shows!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
The one thing I do enjoy is seeing the whacky stooges the Russians roll out to support their case and the loopy arguments they put forward.

"Putin not poison Navalny, Putin strong! Putin need strong opposition, not weak opposition, weak opposition make Putin look weak not strong. Putin strong not weak! Poisoning Navalny make no sense! No sense at all! Stupid western media, where they get these ideas?"
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3422
putin and his lot have become masters at plausible deniability, even to the point of making 'too obvious' a category of deniability. the levels of cynicism and reality manipulation are off the charts.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Dilbert_X wrote:

The one thing I do enjoy is seeing the whacky stooges the Russians roll out to support their case and the loopy arguments they put forward.

"Putin not poison Navalny, Putin strong! Putin need strong opposition, not weak opposition, weak opposition make Putin look weak not strong. Putin strong not weak! Poisoning Navalny make no sense! No sense at all! Stupid western media, where they get these ideas?"
This remarkably boils down some conversations I've had with Russians online.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+492|3422
so the europeans poisoned navalny with novichok in order to waste billions of euros?

wow this makes total sense!
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia
i don't claim to know who poisoned navalny, unlike some posters on these forums. i simply pointed at those, who, if their actions are any indication, seem to be using the incident to advance their agenda. for what? - you be the judge.

Last edited by Shahter (2020-09-03 08:35:57)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+492|3422
and, i mean, it's not like poisoning one of the main opposition figureheads, who investigates official corruption in russia, could *possibly* 'advance the agenda' or suit anyone in russia, right? no, it must be a labyrinthine plot by the european powers to, er, trash their own pipeline project when it is 98% complete; or for merkel and the european powers, those puppets and best friends of the trump administration, to, er, totally u-turn on their previous stances ... it all makes so much sense!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6741|PNW

Interestingly, Trump was advanced to me as the candidate to "normalize" relations with Russia. Still voted for Clinton.
Larssen
Member
+99|1857
I would like to underline that only the military and intelligence services of a select few countries can deploy novichok. Kinda narrows down your options.
uziq
Member
+492|3422
who are these other strange, shadowy, as-yet-unknown organizations with access to novichok and a motive to murder navalny ... or skripal ... they must be really mad at these russian ex-spies and political rebels!
uziq
Member
+492|3422
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6602|949

saw that this morning.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

who are these other strange, shadowy, as-yet-unknown organizations with access to novichok and a motive to murder navalny ... or skripal ... they must be really mad at these russian ex-spies and political rebels!
Britain has a perfume jar full of the stuff.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3422
https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2020/august/ … l-of-sugar

interesting piece on the poisoning/RT's coverage

RT’s UK incarnation claims to ‘challenge dominant power structures’, but whatever might be said about the network’s coverage of Western hypocrisy and venality, the station is institutionally subservient to Russia’s moneyed and political elites. And the coverage of Navalny’s misfortune – far keener to explain hypoglycaemia than contemplate the possibility of an attempted assassination – reflects this in multiple ways. Because, as RT never reports, its editor-in-chief has skin in the game. A couple of months ago, in response to a three-part exposé by the Anti-Corruption Foundation, Simonyan launched a defamation lawsuit against Navalny and his associates.

The complaint turns on RT’s claim to have achieved ten billion YouTube views, and an Anti-Corruption Foundation investigation alleging that the figure was inflated by bots and links to porn sites. The clash has an intensely personal edge. In his first broadside against Simonyan, entitled ‘Parasites’, Navalny ridiculed a trashy television show hosted by her husband. Made using RT facilities but sold for personal gain, it has earned the couple almost £5 million in four years.

Navalny’s follow-up was even more stinging. It claimed that Simonyan was inspired by Putin’s annexation of Crimea to script a patriotic rom-com, so abysmal that not even the state-run Cinema Fund would finance it. The president’s deputy chief-of-staff, Alexei Gromov (who had appointed Simonyan to head Russia Today when she was only 25), stepped in, instructing the Ministry of Culture to give the project a million pounds, no strings attached. The Crimean Bridge: Made with Love! was a commercial disaster and universally panned (except by RT, which called it ‘colourful, interesting and funny’), but Simonyan’s bank balance emerged intact. Almost half the 100 million rubles facilitated by the Kremlin went directly to her and members of her family. Simonyan personally took nine million rubles: about as much as the entire cast earned during the two-month shoot.

RT’s case against Navalny is due in court on 15 September. Another defamation action (brought by the billionaire Oleg Deripaska, whose charitable work Simonyan recently praised) is also imminent. Meanwhile, money-laundering investigations are underway against Anti-Corruption Foundation branches nationwide; a former deputy prime minister is among several well-heeled litigants trying to prevent Navalny disclosing allegations of dishonest enrichment; and a damages award to Yevgeny Prigozhin, another tycoon close to Putin, was so crippling that Navalny recently announced he’d be dissolving the Foundation and restarting under a new name. Prigozhin won’t make that easy: on Tuesday, he let it be known that he intends to reduce ‘comrade Navalny’ to ‘pennilessness and shoelessness’ – unless the comatose man dies first.

It’s evident that many rich and powerful people dislike Navalny. It would take deep stupidity or dishonesty to deny that some want him dead. Official narratives in Russia, like dominant power structures in the West, deserve to be scrutinised accordingly. That’s not about to happen at RT. On the morning after Navalny’s collapse, Simonyan tweeted about his condition eight times, stressing the risk of sudden falls in blood glucose levels. Apparently, she always carries coconut-almond candies, just in case. If only someone had thought to give Navalny a spoonful of sugar, she suggested, he’d have been fine.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

and, i mean, it's not like poisoning one of the main opposition figureheads, who investigates official corruption in russia, could *possibly* 'advance the agenda' or suit anyone in russia, right?
right. navalny is only a "main opposition figurehead" on the pages of western media. in russia his credibility has been pretty much destroyed. no serious person gives a damn about the fucktard and his "investigations" here.

no, it must be a labyrinthine plot by the european powers
if you say so. i haven't seen enough evidence to tell yet.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+492|3422
so in lieu of sowing confusion, what HAVE you seen evidence of? how did he get poisoned with an incredibly rare and specific chemical agent?

are there annoyed oligarchs in russia with access to military-grade chemical weapons? wow, what a shithole!
Larssen
Member
+99|1857
Of course 'nobody gives a fuck anymore' shahter. First discredit & attack, then murder. It's absolutely ridiculous that everything in which the Kremlin is negatively implicated is immediately, automatically dismissed by you.

Litvinenko? We didn't do it
Skripal? We didn't do it
Navalny? We didn't do it
MH17? We didn't do it

Honestly it's disgusting. Fuck russia and fuck putin. Hope he contracts some novichok himself.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-09-06 08:10:04)

uziq
Member
+492|3422
germany has already officially accused a russian agent of murdering a chechen in a berlin park, too. it doesn't make sense that germany would go through all this effort to merely find an alibi to drop nord stream: they already have a ready diplomatic incident and international criminal offence!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … erlin-park
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

uziq wrote:

so in lieu of sowing confusion, what HAVE you seen evidence of?
almost nothing. navalny is in a coma in germany - that's pretty much it.

how did he get poisoned with an incredibly rare and specific chemical agent?
what "incredibly rare and specific chemical agent" has he been poisoned with? what evidence do you have that he has been poisoned with that particular substance?

are there annoyed oligarchs in russia with access to military-grade chemical weapons?
i dunno. i do know that there are whole nations out there that would see north stream 2 stopped though.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
uziq
Member
+492|3422
"that's pretty much it". HOW did a man fall into a coma suddenly on a plane? through WHAT mechanism? can you elaborate on the 'glucose disorder' that causes screaming agony and sudden lapse into coma? that's a very strange form of diabetes.

the german medics and health authorities confirmed upon his admittance to hospital that he had suffered "contamination from a cholinesterase inhibitor", which is consistent with a very specific type of poisoning. a few days later they posted that they were now certain, after tests, that it was novichok. what reason do you have to disbelieve them, exactly?

it's a strange sort of cynical double-bind, where the russian authorities say they have no intentions of investigating, and don't want to know; but then when germany concludes an investigation of their own, the krelim cry 'but why didn't they cooperate in their investigation! they should have shared their materials with us and consulted first!'

'whole nations that want it stopped'? yes, elaborate? like the USA? do you even understand the relationship between trump's USA and merkel/merkel's europe at the moment? it is not one of lapdog complicity. merkel is not at trump's beck-and-call, especially with multi-billion euro infrastructure projects.

AMAZING that you will discredit all the patent evidence and motives that are right before you, but impute this poisoning to 'shadowy nations who want to see nord stream stopped'. so the PROXIMAL explanation is obviously wrong but the distant, conspiratorial, truth-blurring rumours SURELY are more likely.

this is literally every shahter post:

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6745|Moscow, Russia

Larssen wrote:

Of course 'nobody gives a fuck anymore' shahter. First discredit & attack, then murder. It's absolutely ridiculous that everything in which the Kremlin is negatively implicated is immediately, automatically dismissed by you.
not dismissed. it's you who keep accusing people. me - i would simply like to see some evidence.

Litvinenko? We didn't do it
Skripal? We didn't do it
Navalny? We didn't do it
MH17? We didn't do it
i never said any of the above. we - the russia, i mean - may have done all those things. i've read a lot on all these subjects - and i'm not convinced.

Honestly it's disgusting.
on that at least we agree. today's politics are fucking abhorrent.

Fuck russia and fuck putin. Hope he contracts some novichok himself.
okay. you go on and hate on imaginary russia and imaginary putin created for you on the media.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

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