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SuperJail Warden
Member
+350|2358
You shouldn't call a child an idiot especially if you admit she has been coached and groomed to say what all of this stuff.
uziq
Member
+284|2090
and especially when she is more eloquent and logically consistent in her infancy as jay is in his mid-life.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+350|2358
She can also speak Swedish and is actually from there unlike "Swedish-American" Jay.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+350|2358

Uzi wrote:

it is sad that we’re thrusting a child forward as some symbol for a cause. children should be left alone to be children, not become symbols for our mass pieties - whether it’s climate change or being shot in the head by the taliban.
Agreed. I am not a fan of "woke" child advocates.

That said I am more bothered by right wing media putting out hit pieces on a child and mocking her. It's bad that her parents are using her like this. It's also bad that right wingers are using her to bash the entire idea of climate change and settle scores with Al Gore.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

uziq wrote:

what wild and idealistic claims is she making? she’s not exactly pushing a political ideology, jay.

politicising her and thereby dismissing her as some tool of the ‘progressives’ (whatever that shadowy cabal is in the states) is just a cheap trick to dismiss her arguments. the political football around climate change has clearly grown very tiresome to the younger generations.
She's being used by those that are. If she was making statements about the state of Premier League Football would she be receiving international attention? No, she'd be dismissed as an idiot kid. But because she's a child making statements that align with what climate activists want, they retweet her, they share her youtube videos etc. She's a useful tool.

Environmentalism has become a modern religion. There's a pending apocalypse, evangelism, and hostility towards dissent. There's even a ready made solution available in the form of a complete Marxist takeover of the economies of the world in order to stave off said apocalypse. Whether or not there is an issue that needs to be addressed immediately, the watermelons that have taken the lead are abhorrent and will do more harm than good. There will be war before long.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

You shouldn't call a child an idiot especially if you admit she has been coached and groomed to say what all of this stuff.
I feel bad for her if anything. She's being used, and it's sad. She's being set up for a lifetime of unhappiness when she suddenly has the spotlight off her and people stop caring about her opinions. Then she becomes just like every other people yelling at clouds.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+284|2090

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

what wild and idealistic claims is she making? she’s not exactly pushing a political ideology, jay.

politicising her and thereby dismissing her as some tool of the ‘progressives’ (whatever that shadowy cabal is in the states) is just a cheap trick to dismiss her arguments. the political football around climate change has clearly grown very tiresome to the younger generations.
She's being used by those that are. If she was making statements about the state of Premier League Football would she be receiving international attention? No, she'd be dismissed as an idiot kid. But because she's a child making statements that align with what climate activists want, they retweet her, they share her youtube videos etc. She's a useful tool.

Environmentalism has become a modern religion. There's a pending apocalypse, evangelism, and hostility towards dissent. There's even a ready made solution available in the form of a complete Marxist takeover of the economies of the world in order to stave off said apocalypse. Whether or not there is an issue that needs to be addressed immediately, the watermelons that have taken the lead are abhorrent and will do more harm than good. There will be war before long.
weren’t you decrying empty pessimistic waffle in the other thread? what are you actually talking about? she isn’t spouting some faith-based religion. the world’s best scientists are all pretty much in common consensus about the issue. calling environmentalism a religion is the same evasive bullshit as saying a school child is a progressivist plant.

let me guess, you believe in crisis actors being used to make guns illegal too? damn jay you’re such a truth-speaking skeptic!!!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4744|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

She's being used by those that are. If she was making statements about the state of Premier League Football would she be receiving international attention? No, she'd be dismissed as an idiot kid. But because she's a child making statements that align with what climate activists want, they retweet her, they share her youtube videos etc. She's a useful tool.
Tool of whom? Who is standing in the shadows pulling her strings?
I'd trust a 16 year old Swede to be more mature than a 25 year old American.

Environmentalism has become a modern religion. There's a pending apocalypse, evangelism, and hostility towards dissent. There's even a ready made solution available in the form of a complete Marxist takeover of the economies of the world in order to stave off said apocalypse. Whether or not there is an issue that needs to be addressed immediately, the watermelons that have taken the lead are abhorrent and will do more harm than good. There will be war before long.
Now who is the one parroting nonsensical claptrap? Who is pulling your strings Jay?

"Marxist takeover of the economies of the world" - Marxism died about 100 years ago, where do you get this stuff from?
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+284|2090
down with the communistic and theocratic green movement! it is a cult! europe will die!

meanwhile
https://twitter.com/pozzur/status/11762 … 01920?s=21
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England
"Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States."
"Providing all people of the United States with – (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature."
"Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States."
"Meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources."
"Repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including . . . by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible."
"Building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘smart’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity."
"Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification."
"Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail."
"Spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible."
"Working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mag … edirect=on
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+350|2358

Jay wrote:

"Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States."
You have to a real asshole to think this is a bad thing.

My younger sister is a nurse. She will argue to death that fast food workers don't deserve good wages because they don't work a real job. Such ugliness.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

"Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States."
You have to a real asshole to think this is a bad thing.

My younger sister is a nurse. She will argue to death that fast food workers don't deserve good wages because they don't work a real job. Such ugliness.
How does the government guarantee this?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+350|2358
Do you want suggestions on how to achieve each bullet point or did you think the boilerplate left of center ideas is plainly scandalous to everyone?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4744|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

"Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States."
"Providing all people of the United States with – (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature."
"Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States."
"Meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources."
"Repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including . . . by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible."
"Building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘smart’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity."
"Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification."
"Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail."
"Spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible."
"Working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mag … edirect=on
Thats not Marxism, thats social democracy with some environmental objectives, dur.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

"Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States."
"Providing all people of the United States with – (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature."
"Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States."
"Meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources."
"Repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including . . . by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible."
"Building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘smart’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity."
"Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification."
"Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail."
"Spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible."
"Working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mag … edirect=on
Thats not Marxism, thats social democracy with some environmental objectives, dur.
They want to install a totalitarian centrally planned government. Was the Soviet Union not Marxist?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4744|eXtreme to the maX
Where does it say the government is going to "install a totalitarian centrally planned government"?
You already live in, and have served, the military-industrial complex which controls at least half the economy and runs regular make-work wars, it would hardly be a big change.

All those steps can be achieved with mild legislation, taxation adjustments and cooperation with the private sector.

Personally I would add any company which shifts a job offshore should pay tax to govt equivalent to minimum wage and housing costs for the person they displaced.

You still seem to be on your "all government is communism" kick, Mr Jay "I never too a dime from the government" Galt, and ignorant of the most basic definitions.
I'm guessing you're just parroting some libertard opinion site without really understanding what you're saying. I blame abhorrent activists for putting words in the mouths of the venal and uneducated.

I did see a doco which pointed out that the next demographic which is going to be displaced from work by automation, uneducated middle-aged males in transport, mining and agriculture, is also the most heavily armed.

There is going to be a war, its going to be a war between thick rednecks and robots. I predict the robots win.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-09-24 17:41:17)

Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Where does it say the government is going to "install a totalitarian centrally planned government"?

All those steps can be achieved with mild legislation, taxation adjustments and cooperation with the private sector.

Personally I would add any company which shifts a job offshore should pay tax to govt equivalent to minimum wage and housing costs for the person they displaced.

You still seem to be on your "all government is communism" kick, Mr Jay "I never too a dime from the government" Galt, and ignorant of the most basic definitions.
I'm guessing you're just parroting some libertard opinion site without really understanding what you're saying. I blame abhorrent activists for putting words in the mouths of the venal and uneducated.

I did see a doco which pointed out that the next demographic which is going to be displaced from work by automation, uneducated middle-aged males in transport, mining and agriculture, is also the most heavily armed.
There is going to be a war, its going to be a war between thick rednecks and robots.
No, they require that the government take over the health care industry, create public jobs, public housing, enact price controls etc. It's a top down command economy. Mild legislation and taxation my ass.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4744|eXtreme to the maX
Works fine in most countries and delivers cheaper healthcare - we've had this discussion before.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Works fine in most countries and delivers cheaper healthcare - we've had this discussion before.
I only have to double my income tax and double my sales tax, right? Seems like a sweet deal.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4744|eXtreme to the maX
Oh noes - mah consumption!

Nah, merely bring corporation tax in line with international levels - or just start taxing offshore earnings - and you'd be good to go, no impact on your selfish self whatsoever.

Or bring the military workfare program under control, I'm confident that by itself would pay for universal healthcare.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Oh noes - mah consumption!

Nah, merely bring corporation tax in line with international levels - or just start taxing offshore earnings - and you'd be good to go, no impact on your selfish self whatsoever.

Or bring the military workfare program under control, I'm confident that by itself would pay for universal healthcare.
It's truly an easy sell to tell everyone that their taxes will double in order to pay for "free" healthcare. It's amazing how often it's been proposed in this country and then when the actual costs are calculated the politician who proposed it abandons it. It can't even pass in Vermont or California.

Right now I pay roughly 12.3k per year for my family's health insurance. Granted, this is only for the half that I pay, my employer pays the other half. The insurance company, a private entity that presumably cuts waste in order to maintain profits, earns roughly 5% profit per annum on my premiums, or $615. Do I trust my government to keep waste levels low enough that it wouldn't overcome the $615 in profits I have to give up? Based on the hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicare fraud committed every year, no. Do I want my hospitals to be owned and operated by the government? Based on the Veterans Administration hospitals and the care that I and other veterans have received from them, hell no.

You're too old to be an idealist. Grow up.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Member
+350|2358
There are already 135 million Americans on the government run Medicaid and Medicare insurance programs. I think we should nationalize the insurance companies. They are already financially stable enough to profit every year. Take control of the insurance companies and simplify their enrollment, coverage, and other options so that people don't have to worry about what is or is not covered or if their paperwork is in order. From there slowly roll Medicare, Medicaid, and the new government insurance companies into one system.

In any case universal healthcare in the United States is an inevitability at this point. How we get there and what the system is like is where the real conversation is.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3996|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

There are already 135 million Americans on the government run Medicaid and Medicare insurance programs. I think we should nationalize the insurance companies. They are already financially stable enough to profit every year. Take control of the insurance companies and simplify their enrollment, coverage, and other options so that people don't have to worry about what is or is not covered or if their paperwork is in order. From there slowly roll Medicare, Medicaid, and the new government insurance companies into one system.

In any case universal healthcare in the United States is an inevitability at this point. How we get there and what the system is like is where the real conversation is.
Obamacare already did all that. What is covered was dictated to the insurance companies. Premiums rose. Health insurance is essentially government run as is. The government simply outsourced the gatekeeping and fraud prevention to the insurance companies and let them keep a minor profit in exchange for being the punching bag for the public rather than the politicians.

Single payer will be a massive, massive waste of taxpayer money. They'll have no will to be the bad guy and costs will mushroom because of it. Everyone wants Cadillac coverage with no co-pays and minimal costs and politicians will give in and raise taxes, and raise taxes and raise taxes and not a single person will be healthier.

Is the goal simply political control or an efficient system? Be honest.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+739|5323|United States of America
Your taxes already are paying for the monumentally inefficient mishmash healthcare system we have now. People share screenshots all the time of bills that are thousands of dollars for simple things. I bet a hospital bandaid costs over >$100, easily. Providers can jack up prices because insurance companies will pay it and shift the costs to their customers. The profit motivation prioritizes a bare minimum of service at whatever people can be persuaded to pay. If the healthcare industry was used to actually... provide healthcare, you have a different metric of success.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,694|4744|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Oh noes - mah consumption!

Nah, merely bring corporation tax in line with international levels - or just start taxing offshore earnings - and you'd be good to go, no impact on your selfish self whatsoever.

Or bring the military workfare program under control, I'm confident that by itself would pay for universal healthcare.
It's truly an easy sell to tell everyone that their taxes will double in order to pay for "free" healthcare. It's amazing how often it's been proposed in this country and then when the actual costs are calculated the politician who proposed it abandons it. It can't even pass in Vermont or California.

Right now I pay roughly 12.3k per year for my family's health insurance. Granted, this is only for the half that I pay, my employer pays the other half. The insurance company, a private entity that presumably cuts waste in order to maintain profits, earns roughly 5% profit per annum on my premiums, or $615. Do I trust my government to keep waste levels low enough that it wouldn't overcome the $615 in profits I have to give up? Based on the hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicare fraud committed every year, no. Do I want my hospitals to be owned and operated by the government? Based on the Veterans Administration hospitals and the care that I and other veterans have received from them, hell no.
So many scare stories, where do you get them? "Mah taxes will double" Bullshit.
We've been through this before and shown you that in many 'socialist' countries taxes are lower and better quality healthcare is cheaper, I can't be bothered again.
$25k/year for healthcare? Holy shit. And you're happy to see $1250 of your money go to shareholders?

You're too old to be an idealist. Grow up.
You've yet to grow up, there are 16 year olds more mature than you.
Epstein didn't kill himself

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