DAST Chat

2013-10-03 03:46:24

#12126

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Shahter wrote:
Jay wrote:
Shahter wrote:
what are those people to do when they happen to need a surgery or something but don't have health insurance?
Tough luck, go into debt to pay it off.
how exactly does one do that when he's already "struggling to pay rent, their student debt and maybe just maybe start a family"?

There used to be health insurance that specialized in young people and offered lower rates because the risks were lower. Those insurance plans are illegal now because it was causing boomer rates to go up. The claim was the plans were discriminatory because the insurance companies were 'cherry picking' the safest people
well, yeah, that^ is why regulation is required.

Lol, why? People benefited from cheap insurance plans they didn't use very much. Their rates reflected their own personal risk rather than factoring in the health problems of their fat middle aged smoker parents. Seems perfectly fair to me to pay more for a service when you use it at an increasing rate or less when you don't.

Last edited by Jay (2013-10-03 03:47:06)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 07:31:07

#12127

coke: Aye up duck!; +440|6949|England. Stoke

I think Jay should be in parachuted in as President.

2013-10-03 10:36:52

#12128

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7015|Moscow, Russia

Jay wrote:
Shahter wrote:
Jay wrote:

Tough luck, go into debt to pay it off.
how exactly does one do that when he's already "struggling to pay rent, their student debt and maybe just maybe start a family"?

There used to be health insurance that specialized in young people and offered lower rates because the risks were lower. Those insurance plans are illegal now because it was causing boomer rates to go up. The claim was the plans were discriminatory because the insurance companies were 'cherry picking' the safest people
well, yeah, that^ is why regulation is required.
Lol, why?

because otherwise things marked by "this^" in my previous posts happen.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2013-10-03 12:57:20

#12129

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Shahter wrote:
Jay wrote:
Shahter wrote:
Jay wrote:
Tough luck, go into debt to pay it off.
how exactly does one do that when he's already "struggling to pay rent, their student debt and maybe just maybe start a family"?

well, yeah, that^ is why regulation is required.
Lol, why?
because otherwise things marked by "this^" in my previous posts happen.

You mean people actually finding a product that matches their use? Who benefited from the previous system? Healthy people and insurance companies. Who didn't benefit? Unhealthy people. Who benefits from the new system? Unhealthy people and insurance companies. Who doesn't benefit? Healthy people.

I rather like when cost matches use. Wouldn't it make more sense to tie car insurance to the actual amount of time you spent on the road? If you take your car out of the garage once a month you're not very likely to get into an accident are you? What about the guy that spends 40+ hours a week in a car? Isn't he more likely in the long run to get into an accident? Shouldn't he pay higher rates? Instead, he gets subsidized by the person who barely drives because they pool everybody and then average it. Wouldn't it be logical to break up the pool into smaller pieces where people who are accident prone go into one rate pool, while people who barely drive go into another rate pool? The former will see their premiums increase, the latter will see their premiums decrease.

Well, Obamacare gets rid of this. It forces everyone into the same pool: young, old, healthy, sick, rich, poor, and forces the young and the healthy to subsidize the health care costs of the old and sick by raising their premiums regardless of their risk factors.

The system is fucked up. I couldn't give two shits about some 50 year old who doesn't have a pot to piss in and got sick. Fuck them, they've been working for 30+ years. They should've made better financial decisions and saved money and not been a burden on those around them. I have no sympathy, yet these are the ONLY people benefiting from Obamacare. Everyone else is getting fucked over.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 14:00:28

#12130

pirana6: Go Cougs!; +691|6531|Washington St.

jay wrote:
I couldn't give two shits about some 50 year old who doesn't have a pot to piss in and got sick. Fuck them, they've been working for 30+ years. They should've made better financial decisions and saved money and not been a burden on those around them. I have no sympathy.

This paragraph is all you need:

poorer, but your neighbors don't have to worry about their health

-or-

richer, and you don't care if your neighbors die

2013-10-03 14:34:13

#12131

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

pirana6 wrote:
jay wrote:
I couldn't give two shits about some 50 year old who doesn't have a pot to piss in and got sick. Fuck them, they've been working for 30+ years. They should've made better financial decisions and saved money and not been a burden on those around them. I have no sympathy.
This paragraph is all you need:

poorer, but your neighbors don't have to worry about their health

-or-

richer, and you don't care if your neighbors die

Do you need a government accountant to come into your home and create a binding budget for you? I would rather create that agency than a health care one. People are absolutely stupid with their money, live beyond their means, rack up credit card debt they have no hope of paying off and then when they finally get sick it breaks the camels back and they cry for a bailout. These aren't children born into poverty, they are adults who continuously made poor decisions decade after decade. Why should I feel sorry for them? It's not a rich vs poor thing, it's about people who actually put thought into their lives and plan beyond next week vs the people who do not. That's what this comes down to. It's intellectual laziness coupled with escapism writ large.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 14:46:56

#12132

pirana6: Go Cougs!; +691|6531|Washington St.

Jay wrote:
pirana6 wrote:
jay wrote:
I couldn't give two shits about some 50 year old who doesn't have a pot to piss in and got sick. Fuck them, they've been working for 30+ years. They should've made better financial decisions and saved money and not been a burden on those around them. I have no sympathy.
This paragraph is all you need:

poorer, but your neighbors don't have to worry about their health

-or-

richer, and you don't care if your neighbors die
People are absolutely stupid with their money

You could not be more right, and those people deserve to die.

2013-10-03 15:07:34

#12133

Stubbee: Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts; +223|6983|Reality

and all their money should go to the smart people

The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'

2013-10-03 15:44:27

#12134

RTHKI: mmmf mmmf mmmf; +1,741|6977|Cinncinatti

but they dont have any money

2013-10-03 15:45:45

#12135

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

pirana6 wrote:
Jay wrote:
pirana6 wrote:

This paragraph is all you need:

poorer, but your neighbors don't have to worry about their health

-or-

richer, and you don't care if your neighbors die
People are absolutely stupid with their money
You could not be more right, and those people deserve to die.

The truly poor qualify for medicaid. The rest are'why me?' whiners.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 15:46:55

#12136

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Still haven't seen any debate on the topic. I must be right.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 16:32:11

#12137

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6393|what

What debate?

Your position is "they're old so fuck 'm" is ridiculous to the point we'd rather parody.

2013-10-03 16:49:40

#12138

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

You feel sorry for people who have had decades to save money, build equity in their home, get promotions at work etc but didn't do so? You think it's fair for people at the bottom of the ladder, people just getting started in their careers and making on average, half of what these mid to late career people make, to be asked to subsidize their poor life choices and pay an even higher percentage of their meager salary on their own health care? That's fair? These are people our parents age forcing their kids to support them. Fuck that. If they're not poor enough to qualify for medicaid then they have assets to sell. Go sell your house, pay your bills and rent an apartment just like the young adults you're leaching from do.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 16:51:05

#12139

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

AussieReaper wrote:
What debate?

Your position is "they're old so fuck 'm" is ridiculous to the point we'd rather parody.

It's because you have no substance.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 17:34:21

#12140

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6393|what

Old people get sick. They shouldn't have to sell their homes to pay for medical treatment.

And so what if the young people have to support the old? If you weren't so egotistical, you would realise that the young of today would rely on future generations to do the same.

2013-10-03 17:43:40

#12141

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

AussieReaper wrote:
Old people get sick. They shouldn't have to sell their homes to pay for medical treatment.

And so what if the young people have to support the old? If you weren't so egotistical, you would realise that the young of today would rely on future generations to do the same.

8-4-2-1 problem. population growth can't sustain the old people of the future. It's better off to have old people work part time jobs to support themselves than to have an entire base of society paying for their retirement. That's why i like super, coz you put that shit in yoself son.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2013-10-03 17:50:19

#12142

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6393|what

Cybargs wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Old people get sick. They shouldn't have to sell their homes to pay for medical treatment.

And so what if the young people have to support the old? If you weren't so egotistical, you would realise that the young of today would rely on future generations to do the same.
8-4-2-1 problem. population growth can't sustain the old people of the future. It's better off to have old people work part time jobs to support themselves than to have an entire base of society paying for their retirement. That's why i like super, coz you put that shit in yoself son.

By all means increase the retirement age and have them work where they can. But don't expect "well they can just sell their homes!" to be a solution.

Unless you want homeless and elderly people dying in the streets.

2013-10-03 18:00:21

#12143

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

AussieReaper wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Old people get sick. They shouldn't have to sell their homes to pay for medical treatment.

And so what if the young people have to support the old? If you weren't so egotistical, you would realise that the young of today would rely on future generations to do the same.
8-4-2-1 problem. population growth can't sustain the old people of the future. It's better off to have old people work part time jobs to support themselves than to have an entire base of society paying for their retirement. That's why i like super, coz you put that shit in yoself son.
By all means increase the retirement age and have them work where they can. But don't expect "well they can just sell their homes!" to be a solution.

Unless you want homeless and elderly people dying in the streets.

im all for universal health care, people losing their homes and pushing them to further financial struggles is just absurd. in merkia, if youre not poor enough and not rich enough you're fucked.

2013-10-03 18:25:16

#12144

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Everything I've been talking about is strictly Obamacare. It is not universal health care, it is a pure wealth transfer from young to old. Nothing more.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-03 18:31:23

#12145

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6346|eXtreme to the maX

All healthcare and govt controlled retirement funding is basically a ponzi scheme.
I still think the poorest and least able should have access to basic healthcare.

Its long been predicted the baby-boomers would finally destroy America when they got old and became a big enough voting bloc to give themselves anything they want.

Fuck Israel

2013-10-03 19:00:49

#12146

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

Jay wrote:
Everything I've been talking about is strictly Obamacare. It is not universal health care, it is a pure wealth transfer from young to old. Nothing more.

obamacare is just a half assed attempt at everything.

what you think about universal healthcare jay?

2013-10-03 23:13:25

#12147

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7015|Moscow, Russia

Jay wrote:
Shahter wrote:
Jay wrote:
Lol, why?
because otherwise things marked by "this^" in my previous posts happen.
You mean people actually finding a product that matches their use?

no. i mean abusive assholes finding ways to exploit the system for personal gain with no regard for the state or the society.

The system is fucked up.

the system doesn't fuck itself up. we do.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2013-10-03 23:33:48

#12148

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7015|Moscow, Russia

Jay wrote:
Everything I've been talking about is strictly Obamacare. It is not universal health care, it is a pure wealth transfer from young to old. Nothing more.

really? i kinda got the impression you were doing your usual "freedom-freedom-freedom-oi" routine.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2013-10-04 04:58:25

#12149

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Cybargs wrote:
Jay wrote:
Everything I've been talking about is strictly Obamacare. It is not universal health care, it is a pure wealth transfer from young to old. Nothing more.
obamacare is just a half assed attempt at everything.

what you think about universal healthcare jay?

If you simplify the idea down to 'free healthcare for all', it's great, but simplifications of complex systems isn't the best route to go when dealing with things that effect peoples lives. I can simplify the construction of a four story building and say 'just pile one stone on top of another' but when you do that without calculating load or shear or seismic concerns your building will collapse.

Once you start getting into the details regarding universal health care and socialism in general you realize the foundation is very shaky. At its core it's not very much different from what we have in America today; it is essentially national health insurance. You pay your taxes instead of a monthly premium. From that point we diverge, a lot.

We have private hospitals and private doctors, but for all the flaws that go with that, they are all competing with each other on some level to provide the best care they can. If I go to a website like zocdoc.com I can pick my doctor based on his community rating, just like I can pick my restaurant based on reviews. Instead of simply trying to be competent, he's constantly trying to get better so he can win new customers and he's constantly trying to get better so he can win new customers and expand his practice. Government workers in general do the bare minimum required to not be fired.

The other primary difference is that under socialism, the government takes a take it or leave it approach to that it will pay. This may help the taxpayers wallet, but it hurts both service and innovation. Why innovate if the research will cost more than potential gain? Ever notice that the US dominates the world in new medical technology production? I'm not willing to give that up to save a few hundred dollars a year on my medical insurance.

Lastly, all these countries with government health care have forgotten to brace for seismic shock: what happens when the government eventually defaults on its debts and can't pay its workers? Or if the government collapses? Our system would go right on working.

Tldr; the degradation in quality vs the few hundred dollars I would save doesn't balance out for me. It's a complicated issue that I've barely touched on here, but suffice to say I do not want my government running the health care system. his practice. Government workers in general do the bare minimum required to not be fired.

Last edited by Jay (2013-10-04 05:08:41)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2013-10-04 04:59:20

#12150

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5598|London, England

Apologies for the typos. Wrote that on my phone on the train

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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