BF2S Forums DAST Chat

Well, it's not nearly as cliched here as it is in the UK.

Really? I don't get any imperialistic undertones when reading this:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!

I don't know Kiplings biography though, and I don't think it's relevant anyway. Frankly, it reminds me of:

Mama told me when I was young
Come sit beside me, my only son
And listen closely to what I say.
And if you do this
It'll help you some sunny day. Oh Yah!
Oh, take your time... Don't live too fast,
Troubles will come and they will pass.
You'll find a woman, yea yea, you'll find love,
And don't forget son,
There is someone up above.

And be a simple, kind of man.
Oh be something, you love and understand.
Baby be a simple, kind of man.
Oh, won't you do this for me son,
If you can?

Forget your lust, for the rich man's gold
All that you need, is in your soul,
And you can do this, oh baby, if you try.
All that I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied.

And be a simple, kind of man.
Oh be something, you love and understand.
Baby be a simple, kind of man.
Oh, won't you do this for me son,
If you can?

Boy, don't you worry... you'll find yourself.
Follow your heart, lord, and nothing else.
And you can do this, oh baby, if you try.
All that I want for you my son,
Is to be satisfied.

And be a simple, kind of man.
Oh be something, you love and understand.
Baby be a simple, kind of man.
Oh, won't you do this for me son,
If you can?

Baby be a simple, be a simple man.
Oh be something, you love and understand.
Baby be a simple, kind of man.

Yes, yes, I know I just compared Kipling to Skynyrd and I know that is an absolute travesty in your eyes and makes me appear baseborn and uncultured. Whatever. The message is good. I also recognize that the two have completely opposite messages.

Last edited by Jay (2013-06-05 17:23:14)

I simply think it's sage advice, shrug

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

it is yeah if you take it in a piecemeal and stoic kinda way. i guess i can't really read a poem thesedays without wanting to know its subtext though, or from what angle its written.

Honestly, the first thought that came to mind when I read your criticism was 'literature has been ruined forever for this guy because he can't read something without attaching other baggage to it. his innocence regarding literature is lost'.

Putting a poem like that up on your cubicle wall has to be the most pretentious thing you could do at work. I am sure your fellow office workers will be impressed by your knowledge of British poetry.

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

the article talks about "deep reading" and "literature", and it cites frank kermode (one of those pesky world-famous literature academics you demanded me to list so many times and then said nothing about). i guess it's safe to say 'deep reading' involves more than an adult reading the mr. men books. deep reading is about sustained concentration and about the ability to analyze both formal cogency and deeper sub-texts/thematics.

The deep reader, protected from distractions and attuned to the nuances of language, enters a state that psychologist Victor Nell, in a study of the psychology of pleasure reading, likens to a hypnotic trance. Nell found that when readers are enjoying the experience the most, the pace of their reading actually slows. The combination of fast, fluent decoding of words and slow, unhurried progress on the page gives deep readers time to enrich their reading with reflection, analysis, and their own memories and opinions. It gives them time to establish an intimate relationship with the author, the two of them engaged in an extended and ardent conversation like people falling in love.

what's the last book you read that made you experience this dilbert? just curious.

It doesn't mention 'deep and meaningful' heavy literature though, just that the reader needs to be immersed in it.

I dunno, I read Dune in a day once, I guess Pincher Martin most recently, I don't have the time or inclination to get very involved in fiction these days.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I have these on the wall next to my desk

(We had an epic night of very hard drinking with the company executives, and it transpired they're well into McBain-esque slogans and know all the good Arnie quotes backwards)

That first quote is from Genghis Khan.

Jay wrote:

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

it is yeah if you take it in a piecemeal and stoic kinda way. i guess i can't really read a poem thesedays without wanting to know its subtext though, or from what angle its written.

Honestly, the first thought that came to mind when I read your criticism was 'literature has been ruined forever for this guy because he can't read something without attaching other baggage to it. his innocence regarding literature is lost'.

well no, that's not the case at all, is it?

frankly you are more pitiable. you have a poem stuck to your wall and you don't even know what it means. i'm hardly applying deconstructivist theories or feminist analysis to every single book i read. in fact there is a very big difference in my personal experience of reading a book for a course/research topic, and reading a book for fun. that's like saying anyone who has studied film theory can never sit back, switch off, and enjoy a michael bay movie. it doesn't work that way. you have to consciously 'engage' and put in the effort to read a text/film on that level. so no, not all poetry has been 'ruined forever', just because i have methods and means of analysis to dig deeper in their form/content.

i wonder if any of your co-workers have a better knowledge of that poem than you do. they must think you are weird. arch libertarian jay has a kipling poem that means so much to him that it's stapled on his cubicle wall. lol wat. and well, if your only excuse is "i just think it's good advice", the pity party falls on you, not me, because you're the guy that has a poem that 'means' so much to him that it's on his work-wall at all times... yet doesn't even know what it really signifies. even at the most general level it's an example of "britishness" or the "british sensibility". freedom-loving jay from sweden just can't get enough victoriana. derp.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-06-06 04:55:45)

i really like it when americans talk about how europe is a 'socialist fortress' and how we're all "under surveillance" and living in a 1984 state where the government watches our every move and screens all of our thoughts. orwell orwell orwell. kafka kafka kafka. huxley huxley huxley, etc. ad nauseam.

god bless the land of the free, right? damn yurop

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju … ourt-order

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

unlucky. POLICE STATE x DYSTOPIA x TOTALITARIANISM x 1984-2013 x 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

Salaheddin Barhoum and Yassine Zaimi, who had nothing to do with the attack on the Boston Marathon besides being there (two hours before the bombs went off) and loving running, have filed a lawsuit against the New York Post for implying otherwise. Barhoum, a 16-year-old high schooler, and his 24-year-old running buddy are claiming that the Post's "Bag Men" cover was libelous, inflicted emotional distress, and invaded their privacy, the Boston Globe reports. "The front page would lead a reasonable reader to believe that plaintiffs had bombs in their bags, that they were involved in causing the Boston Marathon bombing," says the complaint, and that it led to "scorn, hatred, ridicule, or contempt in the minds of a considerable and respectable segment of the community."

The Post, well practiced in strongly suggesting things without coming right out and saying them, was deliberate in its wording, which could make the case hard to win: The story read, "Investigators probing the deadly Boston Marathon bombings are circulating photos of two men spotted chatting near the packed finish line … Meanwhile, officials have identified two potential suspects who were captured on surveillance videos taken shortly before the deadly blasts … It was not immediately clear if the men in the law-enforcement photos are the same men in the surveillance videos."

"We did not identify them as suspects," Post editor Coll Allan argued, technically telling the truth. "All NYPost pics were those distributed by FBI," Rupert Murdoch tweeted at the time. "And instantly withdrawn when FBI changed directions." That part is less true: The Post still has a photo of Barhoum and Zaimi, with red circles around their heads, on its website.

And the intimation in the cover image is clear. "They're saying these are the guys with the bombs in the bag," one of Zaimi's lawyers said to the Globe. "What kind of stereotyping and profiling, what type of reasoning, led the Post to think this was OK to do?" another lawyer wondered. "And would they have ever done this if this was just some white kid from the suburbs who was standing there with the backpack?" The answer is obvious, and hopefully the men get at least a settlement in lieu of the apology the Post never provided.

Too bad it won't go anywhere. The guy wrongly accused of the Olympic bombing who won a lot of money suing for slander had a real case since he was targeted personally. These two not so much.

it is not so bad see?

The fuck is going on with Greenland?