DAST Chat

2012-08-15 13:58:01

#6526

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6630|'Murka

It's not that it's toxic, AR. It's that the other side keeps lying about it, saying it will impact current recipients.

You should note that the democrats have offered exactly zero options to keep SS and Medicare solvent...because that would require altering benefits for future recipients.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2012-08-15 14:02:04

#6527

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

I don't pay attention to the policies they propose.

The only real reform I believe in is means testing social security and medicare benefits. People over a certain threshold don't need the taxpayers footing the bill for their retirement, we can't afford it, and it's completely unnecessary. This also has the benefit of avoiding 'over 55 thresholds' or whatever because those that really need the help will still be able to receive it.

The system as it is set up now just funnels wealth from the poor and young to the old and already wealthy. They've had an entire lifetime to build up assets and yet still it's considered socially acceptable and desirable for them to siphon money from those of us who haven't.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 14:04:17

#6528

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6630|'Murka

Completely agree.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2012-08-15 15:01:04

#6529

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6218|...

Jay wrote:
Shocking wrote:
You people across the atlantic really need to figure that "socialism" isn't a single, comprehensive ideology like libertarianism etc. There are MANY different schools of thought within it and there are vast differences between each country that you perceive as being 'socialist'.

I know that you feel it's impossibru for a country to grow or do anything and will be doomed to stagnate, crash and burn if it so much as subsidises healthcare coverage, but that doesn't really pertain to reality. (I'm not a socialist, although I guess by US standards I would be).
Lol.

No, it's the innate control freak desire to direct and touch everything that goes along with socialist governments that causes stagnation. Everything must be taxed and regulated and 'advised'. Bureaucracy is what really causes the stagnation, and you can't have socialism without massive bureaucracy.

I can't for the life of me understand how you feel it's perfectly fine to be involved in a monetary union without centralised fiscal control. And no, it's not like the gold standard. The gold standard was global and much more stable compared to the euro.

It would be like having a dollar without there being a -united- states. And even then, a crash of one country in the EU would be much more catastrophic than of a state in the US. The dollar would certainly be much less stable and not the preferred world currency.

Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
That doesn't make them statist. And definitely doesn't make them not worth listening to - unless you want to indulge in groupthink.
Yes, it's the very definition of statism. When your government meddles in your economy, bad things happen, like housing booms and crashes that drag the entire world economy down with you.

It's one of the only news magazines that has some proper analysis and research put into its articles (most of the time). Der Spiegel has some decent articles once in a while as well.

The other side of the debate are the people who state "crash the euro, it brought nothing but trouble and once it's gone everything will be fine and dandy" without argument, while pretty much all the facts and theory point the other way.

Last edited by Shocking (2012-08-15 15:05:50)

inane little opines

2012-08-15 15:21:06

#6530

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

I read it on occasion to see how the rest of the world is doing economically. For general news it tends towards the very good, but I can't get past the views held by the editorial board. Articles on policy are always slanted towards the statist world view. See a problem? Create a committee to study it, or create a set of regulations to address whatever issue no matter how one-off it may be. They also treat UN sources with far more respect than they should.

I guess the real issue I have with the magazine is that they are dependent on the crap that is taught in every basic macro economics class i.e. AD = P + C + I and other simplistic ways of dealing with complex economic matters that are taught as gospel at universities the world over. Most of that stuff is obsolete and was intellectually destroyed by the likes of Milton Friedman, but it's much easier for the media, even a media supposedly dedicated to economics, to keep peddling it because it's easy for the target audience to understand.

The Economist is a neo-mercantilist magazine, they don't push anything resembling free market economics.

Last edited by Jay (2012-08-15 15:21:35)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 15:38:29

#6531

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6933|Purplicious Wisconsin

Such a shame Tommy Thompson won as Republican candidate for National Senate seat, I was rooting for Hovde. Sucks the conservative vote was split between Hovde, Neumann, and Fitzgerald while all the moderates all voted together for Thompson.

Last edited by War Man (2012-08-15 15:40:02)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2012-08-15 15:39:52

#6532

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

News flash war man, most people dislike zealots.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 15:40:06

#6533

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6218|...

If I have to put labels on it over here the economist is seen as liberal and progressive. (liberal is right-wing in our part of the world, don't mistake it for your idea of 'liberals').

inane little opines

2012-08-15 15:41:37

#6534

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

Liberal (as in advocating freedom), and progressivism are opposites of each other. There's no such thing as being liberal and progressive unless you are using the modern American definition of liberal.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 15:42:42

#6535

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6933|Purplicious Wisconsin

Jay wrote:
News flash war man, most people dislike zealots.

They aren't exactly zealots to be fair. Anyway, still gonna vote for Thompson 'cause I don't want Wisconsin to be known as the state that elected the first openly homosexual senator, plus Tammy Baldwin is a real zealot compared to all the 4 Republican candidates.

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2012-08-15 15:43:25

#6536

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

How open minded of you

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 15:44:13

#6537

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6218|...

Progressivism doesn't have to be opposite of liberalism. It's opposite of conservatism if anything.

inane little opines

2012-08-15 15:45:05

#6538

Mutantbear: Semi Constructive Criticism; +1,431|6184|London, England

War Man wrote:
Jay wrote:
News flash war man, most people dislike zealots.
They aren't exactly zealots to be fair. Anyway, still gonna vote for Thompson 'cause I don't want Wisconsin to be known as the state that elected the first openly homosexual senator, plus Tammy Baldwin is a real zealot compared to all the 4 Republican candidates.

thats horrible

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

2012-08-15 15:48:03

#6539

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6933|Purplicious Wisconsin

Mutantbear wrote:
War Man wrote:
Jay wrote:
News flash war man, most people dislike zealots.
They aren't exactly zealots to be fair. Anyway, still gonna vote for Thompson 'cause I don't want Wisconsin to be known as the state that elected the first openly homosexual senator, plus Tammy Baldwin is a real zealot compared to all the 4 Republican candidates.
thats horrible

Main reason is Tammy Baldwin's views, her being lesbian is a secondary issue. Hey, I'd vote for a homosexual conservative over a straight liberal any time. Same goes for a pro-choice atheist conservative over a pro-life Christian liberal

I go by views and policy; strength; and experience and record first when I vote. Religion and sexuality are secondary issues.

Last edited by War Man (2012-08-15 15:49:14)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2012-08-15 15:49:57

#6540

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

Economic freedom is on the right.
Communism is the far left, progressivism is left of center.
Social interventionism is at the top.
Social liberalism is at the bottom.

Don't mistake liberalism for stances on issues taken. Interventionism is interventionism no matter if the the person pushing the agenda is taking his cues from the bible or from a group trying to ban smoking 'for the public good'. Progressivism and true social liberalism do not mix.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 15:51:04

#6541

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

War Man wrote:
Mutantbear wrote:
War Man wrote:

They aren't exactly zealots to be fair. Anyway, still gonna vote for Thompson 'cause I don't want Wisconsin to be known as the state that elected the first openly homosexual senator, plus Tammy Baldwin is a real zealot compared to all the 4 Republican candidates.
thats horrible
Main reason is Tammy Baldwin's views, her being lesbian is a secondary issue. Hey, I'd vote for a homosexual conservative over a straight liberal any time. Same goes for a pro-choice atheist conservative over a pro-life Christian liberal

I go by views and policy; strength; and experience and record first when I vote. Religion and sexuality are secondary issues.

Wait, you're pro-choice?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 15:53:20

#6542

Mutantbear: Semi Constructive Criticism; +1,431|6184|London, England

War Man wrote:
Mutantbear wrote:
War Man wrote:

They aren't exactly zealots to be fair. Anyway, still gonna vote for Thompson 'cause I don't want Wisconsin to be known as the state that elected the first openly homosexual senator, plus Tammy Baldwin is a real zealot compared to all the 4 Republican candidates.
thats horrible
Main reason is Tammy Baldwin's views, her being lesbian is a secondary issue. Hey, I'd vote for a homosexual conservative over a straight liberal any time. Same goes for a pro-choice atheist conservative over a pro-life Christian liberal

I go by views and policy; strength; and experience and record first when I vote. Religion and sexuality are secondary issues.

you dont need to convince me. Im just disappointed

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

2012-08-15 15:54:44

#6543

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6218|...

War Man wrote:
Mutantbear wrote:
War Man wrote:

They aren't exactly zealots to be fair. Anyway, still gonna vote for Thompson 'cause I don't want Wisconsin to be known as the state that elected the first openly homosexual senator, plus Tammy Baldwin is a real zealot compared to all the 4 Republican candidates.
thats horrible
Main reason is Tammy Baldwin's views, her being lesbian is a secondary issue. Hey, I'd vote for a homosexual conservative over a straight liberal any time. Same goes for a pro-choice atheist conservative over a pro-life Christian liberal

I go by views and policy; strength; and experience and record first when I vote. Religion and sexuality are secondary issues.

I would vote to euthanise you for the common good

inane little opines

2012-08-15 15:55:56

#6544

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5805

You probably already know this warman but you are an okay person in my book.

2012-08-15 15:57:49

#6545

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6933|Purplicious Wisconsin

Jay wrote:
War Man wrote:
Mutantbear wrote:
thats horrible
Main reason is Tammy Baldwin's views, her being lesbian is a secondary issue. Hey, I'd vote for a homosexual conservative over a straight liberal any time. Same goes for a pro-choice atheist conservative over a pro-life Christian liberal

I go by views and policy; strength; and experience and record first when I vote. Religion and sexuality are secondary issues.
Wait, you're pro-choice?

Pro-life mostly, exceptions are if girl could possibly die from giving birth. As for rape, still deciding on that. What I was getting at was I don't go by religion and sexuality, those are less important to me than the other things I mentioned I go for when deciding a candidate to vote for.

My parents may have influenced me before I was a teenager, but I have been developing my own views since then that may or may not differ from them.

When deciding the Republican Presidential candidate, I had my mind made up I would vote for Romney while my parents were still debating between Santorum or Romney. I made up my mind to go for Hovde while my parents were deciding which of the 4 candidates to vote for in Republican seat, they ended up going for Hovde like me.

Last edited by War Man (2012-08-15 16:02:21)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2012-08-15 16:00:54

#6546

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6218|...

Jay wrote:

Economic freedom is on the right.
Communism is the far left, progressivism is left of center.
Social interventionism is at the top.
Social liberalism is at the bottom.

Don't mistake liberalism for stances on issues taken. Interventionism is interventionism no matter if the the person pushing the agenda is taking his cues from the bible or from a group trying to ban smoking 'for the public good'. Progressivism and true social liberalism do not mix.

Only in extremes. A liberal can, at times, support interventionism. The economist supports open markets and freedom for business & individuals. In the euro debate, some of its columnists (charlemagne for one) obviously root for fiscal union. Noone is 100% one way or the other, argument can win over principles at times.

inane little opines

2012-08-15 16:04:53

#6547

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5805

Political compass is fucking retarded

2012-08-15 16:12:09

#6548

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6933|Purplicious Wisconsin

Macbeth wrote:
Political compass is fucking retarded

Explaining a person's views would be quite funny with this though. He is so far Up-Rightwing he shouldn't run for candidacy. His views are down-right good.

Last edited by War Man (2012-08-15 16:13:17)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2012-08-15 16:18:19

#6549

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5577|London, England

Macbeth wrote:
Political compass is fucking retarded

You think separating economic from social stances is retarded? Ok.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2012-08-15 16:30:31

#6550

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5805

Jay wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Political compass is fucking retarded
You think separating economic from social stances is retarded? Ok.

No, you fucking stupid bastard.

The political compass is retarded because of the questions it ask. Instead of concrete positional questions it ask you general feeling questions.

I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong.

My answer to this question is much more complex than Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Agree, and Strongly Agree. I can write a several paragraphs in response to this question.

Secondly, the choices it boxes you into is also pretty dumb since your mood when taking the test affects how strongly you agree or disagree something. The four choices are essentially the same answers choices you find on FB poll and personality quizzes.

There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.

An typical days events could make someone swing between the extremes with this question. My views are also too complex to box into those four small categories. Stupid, stupid shit.

Don't let me stop you from posting the facebook personality quiz all over the place like it some profound shit you found. I don't ever want to stop you from looking like a dumbass.

Last edited by Macbeth (2012-08-15 16:31:51)

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Jay wrote:

Shocking wrote:

Jay wrote:

Spark wrote:

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Jay wrote:

Mutantbear wrote:

War Man wrote:

Jay wrote:

War Man wrote:

Mutantbear wrote:

War Man wrote:

War Man wrote:

Mutantbear wrote:

War Man wrote:

War Man wrote:

Mutantbear wrote:

War Man wrote:

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