BF2S Forums The Age of Cheap Oil is Over

Spark wrote:

So which massive desert do you intend on covering with said solar-thermal (the claim of which "no exotic materials" are required interests me by the way. Those mirrors don't make themselves shiny)

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

Spark wrote:

So which massive desert do you intend on covering with said solar-thermal (the claim of which "no exotic materials" are required interests me by the way. Those mirrors don't make themselves shiny)

Also, since most rare earth minerals are currently mined in China, what allows him to assume that they will share? They've already been accused of hoarding by the US and Japan.

Ah yeah forgot that. Would bet a lot of money that a "big" deposit is to be found somewhere here though.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-28 08:04:31)

Jay wrote:

Spark wrote:

Jay wrote:

Also, since most rare earth minerals are currently mined in China, what allows him to assume that they will share? They've already been accused of hoarding by the US and Japan.

Ah yeah forgot that. Would bet a lot of money that a "big" deposit is to be found somewhere here though.

They made a big discovery recently in Greenland, but if I recall, the max output they project is maybe 1/4 of what is possible in China. I'm sure Russia has large deposits somewhere, or maybe Africa. We'll see though.

An obscure, desolate plateau on the southwestern shores of Greenland could transform the future of consumer technology and shift the balance of power in the global supply of rare earth metals.

The treasure trove beneath the rocks and ice of the Ilimaussaq Intrusion represents the world’s largest known reserve of rare earth metals, the “technology” group of lanthanide elements used in products from mobile phones and low-energy light bulbs to hybrid cars and missile guidance systems.

The find has the potential, its developers claim, to severely dent China’s global monopoly over rare earth production, a 95 per cent dominance of total worldwide output that Beijing has strategically nurtured for 15 years and recently has started to treat as a potent trade weapon.

According to the Australian mining company with rights to develop it, the site could also spectacularly change the national fortunes of Greenland, which is undergoing significant political change as it draws closer to independence from Denmark. From January next year, Greenland will gain full sovereignty over its natural resources. The rare earths alone have the potential to double the country’s effective GDP.

Studies of the site show that the Ilimaussaq reserves would comfortably meet at least 25 per cent of global rare earth demand for the next halfcentury.

Jaekus wrote:

Australian mining company? Rio Tinto?

Last edited by Spark (2011-04-28 08:11:21)

same article wrote:

The cost of extracting the rare earths will be offset by the profits from extracting uranium from the same site, effectively preventing China from undercutting the operation on price, which is how it obtained its dominance over the world market in the first place.

Jay wrote:

same article wrote:

The cost of extracting the rare earths will be offset by the profits from extracting uranium from the same site, effectively preventing China from undercutting the operation on price, which is how it obtained its dominance over the world market in the first place.

Ahh, so the Chinese don't really have a monopoly on the materials, they've simply undercut everyone else and driven them out of the business.

Jaekus wrote:

Jay wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Australian mining company? Rio Tinto?

Greenland Minerals & Energy

I was referring to this part of it:

According to the Australian mining company with rights to develop it

Spark wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Shocking wrote:

Well for any decent solar cell you're still going to need (very) rare metals such as tellurium and indium. Those supposedly green energy sources rely on depletable materials just as much as any other alternative, and they're inefficient to boot; with the biggest problem being (imo) the inconsistency in your energy supply. It's completely dependant on external factors over which we have no influence. 

And apparently sand causes scratches on the panels which over time could greatly reduce efficiency. I don't know how much damage over what amount of time we're talking about - but safe to say that the best places to deploy panels are usually windy, sandy places. If I imagine the technology being used on a national or worldwide scale as the dominant energy source maintenance must be a true nightmare, if only due to the sheer number of panels needed. That said, I believe nuclear power is going to be our best bet for the future, until a energy source is discovered that's actually viable. I've got hopes for fusion but given the required circumstances to produce more output than input its debut as an energy source could be long off.

My advice; go nuclear and for once start investing heavily in space agencies such as NASA and the ESA. Taking into account population growth and the rest of the world catching up technologically and thus needing more of... everything, we're going to need to get our basic building materials from somewhere else, because I doubt the supplies of our earth can sustain the growing number of people who need massive amounts of stuff.

Meet asteroid;


He's got plenty of stuff.

If average living standards in India and China start to compare to that of the western world we are so fucked.

Erm, the plan doesn't call for solar-photovoltaic, its mostly solar-thermal - requiring no exotic materials at all.
I guess you didn't read it.

So which massive desert do you intend on covering with said solar-thermal (the claim of which "no exotic materials" are required interests me by the way. Those mirrors don't make themselves shiny)

Spark wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spark wrote:

So which massive desert do you intend on covering with said solar-thermal (the claim of which "no exotic materials" are required interests me by the way. Those mirrors don't make themselves shiny)

As I understand it 30km x 30km would meet Australia's energy needs, 300kmx300km the entire world. I'm sure we can spare that much desert.

Aluminium - thats a very exotic material. Isn't most of the earth's crust made of that?

Right so have fun building enough solar panels to cover ninety thousand square kilometres. Have fun maintaining it too.