Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7058|Moscow, Russia

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

No you don't, as the standard of living improves fewer people are below the poverty line. They earn more, the economy expands, subisidies can be removed, everyone is better off.
I thought that was the basis of capitalism.

The problem is when people expect subsidies when they're out of poverty.

I don't understand why you're arguing this when you were happy to take a taxpayer funded govt job with cushy benefits when it suited you.
That government job was just that, a job. It wasn't welfare. Don't try to paint me with the same brush as lowing. I think even the most staunch liberal can understand the necessity of having people serve in the national defense forces.
WHAT IS THIS!!?? gotta love a hypocrite.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p3489773

that whooshing noise you hear is Jay's credibility flying out the window with a rush of hypocrisy blowing in to fill the void.
zing.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6282|...

Jay wrote:

I think even the most staunch liberal can understand the necessity of having people serve in the national defense forces.
Well, in Europe, different story.

inane little opines
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Shahter wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:


That government job was just that, a job. It wasn't welfare. Don't try to paint me with the same brush as lowing. I think even the most staunch liberal can understand the necessity of having people serve in the national defense forces.
WHAT IS THIS!!?? gotta love a hypocrite.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p3489773

that whooshing noise you hear is Jay's credibility flying out the window with a rush of hypocrisy blowing in to fill the void.
zing.
Amazing isn't he?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

No you don't, as the standard of living improves fewer people are below the poverty line. They earn more, the economy expands, subisidies can be removed, everyone is better off.
I thought that was the basis of capitalism.

The problem is when people expect subsidies when they're out of poverty.

I don't understand why you're arguing this when you were happy to take a taxpayer funded govt job with cushy benefits when it suited you.
That government job was just that, a job. It wasn't welfare. Don't try to paint me with the same brush as lowing. I think even the most staunch liberal can understand the necessity of having people serve in the national defense forces.
WHAT IS THIS!!?? gotta love a hypocrite.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p3489773

that whooshing noise you hear is Jay's credibility flying out the window with a rush of hypocrisy blowing in to fill the void.
Jay, were you going to explain this hypocrisy, or just ignore it like you have not stepped into your own bullshit?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6957|Canberra, AUS
He did in a different thread.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Spark wrote:

He did in a different thread.
He was called out on that bullshit to.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5641|London, England

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

He did in a different thread.
He was called out on that bullshit to.
It's saturday, don't you have a meeting involving some wood, a lawn and a fire?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

He did in a different thread.
He was called out on that bullshit to.
It's saturday, don't you have a meeting involving some wood, a lawn and a fire?
nope, all I gotta do today is come back to this forum from time to time and see if you can explain your blatant hypocrisy and inconsistency and out right bullshit.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5641|London, England

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

He was called out on that bullshit to.
It's saturday, don't you have a meeting involving some wood, a lawn and a fire?
nope, all I gotta do today is come back to this forum from time to time and see if you can explain your blatant hypocrisy and inconsistency and out right bullshit.
Nothing hypocritical about anything I said. I said defense contractors are leeches. You don't like that because it applies to you. Too bad.

Then you go on and on and on about how I'm some high and mighty intellectual that you can't keep up with. Also too bad.

lowing, you're not creative, you're not intelligent, and you have the learning capacity of a fence post. Instead of recognizing this and bowing out of conversations you can't keep up in, you instead turn each and every one of them to a topic that you feel that you can hold your own in: islam and the failings of black people. You're a broken record. You and dilbert are two of a kind and equally annoy the rest of us. I think it's really cute that the two of you have finally decided to combine forces to combat a common enemy. At least the record has changed for the next five minutes.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-23 13:09:37)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

It's saturday, don't you have a meeting involving some wood, a lawn and a fire?
nope, all I gotta do today is come back to this forum from time to time and see if you can explain your blatant hypocrisy and inconsistency and out right bullshit.
Nothing hypocritical about anything I said. I said defense contractors are leeches. You don't like that because it applies to you. Too bad.

Then you go on and on and on about how I'm some high and mighty intellectual that you can't keep up with. Also too bad.

lowing, you're not creative, you're not intelligent, and you have the learning capacity of a fence post. Instead of recognizing this and bowing out of conversations you can't keep up in, you instead turn each and every one of them to a topic that you feel that you can hold your own in: islam and the failings of black people. You're a broken record. You and dilbert are two of a kind and equally annoy the rest of us. I think it's really cute that the two of you have finally decided to combine forces to combat a common enemy. At least the record has changed for the next five minutes.
I am not and was not a defense contractor. I was an am an aircraft mechanic that was assigned by my company to modify and install an upgraded system on helicopters. What did you do again that was so different in circumstance? What was it that made me a leech, and you just having a job working for the govt?

No, actually YOU go on about how high and mighty you are. Another small fact you seem to neglect when you talk about how pathetic everyone is around you..lol

Dilbert and I have not "joined forces", I think his bullshit is just as ridiculous as yours. Now were you going to explain your hypocrisy in these 2 posts or just continue to shout down from your imaginary perch?
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 8#p3513118

After all of that rant, you forgot to call me a moron and to fuck off and die? Watch it pal, your debating skills are deteriorating.


by the way, I see your begging for karma is going well. Keep up the good work professor.

Last edited by lowing (2011-04-23 13:52:46)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6693|'Murka

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

I guess Aussie, you are one of those few people that ask the poor for a job then?..and not the "evil rich"
The poor pay taxes. The rich don't.
This shows just how little you actually know about the American tax system. It's been posted numerous times, AR. It's probably already been posted in response to your simple "wrongness," but I haven't gotten past the first page yet. The rich in this country pay the majority of income taxes. Despite your GE example (thanks to the former/present GE CEO being an advisor to Obama, no doubt), our corporate tax rate is one of the highest in the world. The poor in our country pay almost no taxes. In fact, a minority of the wage earners pay taxes at all--47%, IIRC. Of that minority, the majority of the revenue (that would be taxes) comes from the wealthiest 20% of Americans. The tax cuts "for the rich" were actually tax cuts across the board, but the ensuing tax structure put even more of the burden on the wealthiest Americans.

But facts are just too damn "facty," I suppose.

And Macbeth: He figured out how to win the Cold War without turning it into the Hot War. Which gave us the economic growth of the 90s.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6388|eXtreme to the maX
The rich pay much less in tax than they should, via tax avoidance and running stuff through companies.
Fuck Israel
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6934|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

The rich pay much less in tax than they should, via tax avoidance and running stuff through companies.
So paying more than you is still not enough? You are getting dangerously close to punishing achievement and rewarding failure. Well forget that, it is already happening.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6753
reagan's popularity gives us all food for thought. but we should first establish what type of confidence he is accorded. it is almost too good to be true. how can it be that every defence has fallen before him? how can it be that no mistake or political reversal damages his standing and that, paradoxically, his failures even improve it (which infuriates our french leaders, for whom things are the other way round: the more initiative and goodwill they show, the less popular they become). but the point is precisely that the confidence placed in reagan is a paradoxical confidence. just as we distinguish between real and paradoxical sleep, we should also distinguish between real and paradoxical confidence. the former is granted to a man or a leader on the basis of his qualities and his success. paradoxical confidence is the confidence we place ion someone on the basis of their failure or their absence of qualities. the prototype of this confidence is the failure of prophecy - a process that is well-known from the history of messianic and millenarian movements - following which the group, instead of denying its leader and dispersing, closes ranks around him and creates religious, sectarian, or ecclesiastical institutions to preserve the faith. institutions all the more solid for deriving their energy from the failure of the prophecy. this 'supplemental' confidence never wavers, because it derives from the disavowal of failure. such, making all due allowance, is the amazing aura that surrounds reagan's credibility, and which necessarily makes one think that the american prophecy, the grand prospect of utopia on earth combined with world power, has suffered a setback; that something of that imaginary feat that was to crown the history of two centuries has precisely not been realized, and that reagan is the product of the failure of that prophecy. in reagan, a system of values that was formerly effective turns into something ideal and imaginary. the image of america becomes imginary for americans themselves, at a point when it is without doubt profoundly compromised. this transformation of spontaneous confidence into paradoxical confidence and an achieved utopia into an imaginary hyperbole seems to me to mark a decisive turning-point. but doubtless things are not this simple. for i am not saying that the image of america is deeply altered in the eyes of the americans themselves. i am not saying that this change of direction in the reagan era is anything other than an incidental development. who knows? you have the same difficulty today distinguishing between a process and its simulation, for example between a flight and a flight simulation. america, too, has entered this era of undecidability: is it still really powerful or merely simulating power?

can reagan be considered the symbol of present-day american society - a society which, having once possessed the original features of power, is now perhaps at the face-lift stage? another hypothesis might be that america is no longer what it was, but is continuing on its course; its power has entered a phase of hysteresis. hysteresis: the process whereby something continues to develop by inertia, whereby an effect persists even when its cause has disappeared. we may speak, in this sense, of a hysteresis of history, a hysteresis of socialism, and so on. the whole thing continues to function like a body in motion by virtue of the speed it has already gathered or by inertia-steering, or like an unconscious man still remaining on his feet, by sheer force of equilibrium. or, in more comic vein, like the cyclist in jarry's supermale, who has died of exhaustion on the incredible trip across siberia, but who carries on pedalling and propelling the great machine, his rigor mortis transformed into motive power. a superb fiction, for the dead are perhaps even capable of going quicker, of keeping the machine going better than the living since they no longer have any problems. might america not be like jarry's five-man bicycle? but here again, though it seems quite clear the american machine has suffered something like a break in the current, or a breaking of the spell, who can say whether this is the product of a depression or of a supercooling of the machinery?

america is certainly suffering less than europe from the phase of convalescence that grand ideas are going througrh or from the decline in historical passions, for these are not the motor of its development. it is, however, suffering from the disappearance of ideologies that might contest its power and from the weakening of all the forces that previously opposed it. it was more powerful in the two decades after the second world war, but so too were the ideas and passions ranged against it. the american system could be violently attacked (even from within in the sixties and seventies). today, america no longer has the same hegemony, no longer enjoys the same monopoly, but it is, in a sense, uncontested and uncontestable. it used to be a world power; it has now become a model (business, the market, free enterprise, performance) - and a universal one - even reaching as far as china. the international style is now american. there is no real opposition any more; the combative periphery has now been reabsorbed (china, cuba, vietnam); the great anti-capitalist ideology has been emptied of its substance. all in all, the same concensus is forming around the us in the world at large as has developed around reagan at home. a credibility effect, an advertising effect, the potential adversary losing its defences. this is the way things have gone for reagan. little by little, everything facing him, everything opposing him has faded away, without its being possible to credit him with any personal political genius. concensus by effusion, by an elision of the oppositional elements and the margins. political decline, but pr ascendancy. it's the same for the us on a planetary scale. american power does not seem inspired by any spirit or genius of its own (it works by inertia, in an ad hoc fashion, in the void, hampered by its own strength). yet, on the other hand, the country indulges in a kind of promotional hype. america has a sort of mythical power throughout the world, a power based on the advertising image, which parallels the polarization of advertising images around reagan. it is in this way, by this kind of added value, of exponential, self-referential, though ultimately unfounded credibility, that an entire society becomes stabilised beneath a perfusion of advertising. the flooding of the dollar on the world marketplace is the symbol and finest example of this.

yet it is a fragile meta-stability, as much externally as on the domestic political stage. for, in the last resort, it is due to the evaporation of any real alternative, to the disappearance of resistances and antibodies. this is the real crisis of american reaganite power, that of a potential stabilization by inertia, of an assumption of power in a vacuum. in many respects it resembles the loss of immune defenses in an overprotected organism. that is why i feel there is a poetic irony in reagan contracting cancer. in its form, cancer is somewhat similar to that transparent credibility, that euphoria of a body no longer producing antibodies and threatened with destruction by an excess of functionality. the leader of the greatest world power struck down by cancer! power in the grip of metastases! the two poles of our civilization meet here. the end of presidential immunity. it will be aids next! this should mark the beginning of general implosion (in the eastern bloc, political power has long been in the grip of necrosis).
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5641|London, England
https://bluntobject.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/lol-wut.jpg
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5542|foggy bottom
crime was the worst it ever was in LA and NYC during reagans years
Tu Stultus Es
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|5981
crack cocaine innit
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5542|foggy bottom
that was the height of gangs in LA.  I know trhat NYC had a horrible crime rate during the 80's too.  NYC is disneyland nowadays compared to the 80's/
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5641|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

that was the height of gangs in LA.  I know trhat NYC had a horrible crime rate during the 80's too.  NYC is disneyland nowadays compared to the 80's/
There were a lot of factors involved. The lower east side of Manhattan was literally a war zone with burned out shells of tenement buildings dotting the streets. Now it's yuppie central. The gentrification of Manhattan came about because people suddenly had a lot of disposable income, developers saw an opportunity to buy up a lot of valuable real estate on the cheap, and voila! Gentrified, yuppie Manhattan.

Rent control destroyed Manhattan's neighborhoods. Private ownership turned it into what it is today. Now a Brownstone sells for multiple millions.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5542|foggy bottom
youre exactly right.  I visited my aunt in washington heights this past weekend.  Shes been living in that apartment since the god damn 60's.  I remember going there in 91.  Huge difference.  My cousin was telling me all about the gentrifacation in the area they lived at.  Saw a lot of white hipster looking people.  Christ new york has been invaded by hipsters.
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5641|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

youre exactly right.  I visited my aunt in washington heights this past weekend.  Shes been living in that apartment since the god damn 60's.  I remember going there in 91.  Huge difference.  My cousin was telling me all about the gentrifacation in the area they lived at.  Saw a lot of white hipster looking people.  Christ new york has been invaded by hipsters.
Western Brooklyn by the bridges is almost purely hipster. Everyone got priced out of Manhattan and now they're pricing themselves out of Brooklyn. Now they're moving north into Western Queens (Long Island City, Astoria etc). The poor people then get pushed further and further away from the city center. We live in the days of Anti-White-Flight
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|5981
my dad was involved in five stick ups, three of which happened during the 80s and the pharmacy next door was held up for 2 days before one of the guys offed himself and the other two surrendered. most pf the people in my family that were around told me that it wasn't uncommon for people to carry guns on them. people were spending money though(but i guess it was because drug dealers were literally everywhere, especially on the lower east side). everything was much cheaper and owning a business actually meant you made money.

Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5542|foggy bottom
my aunt lives off of w 184.  right next to the GW
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5641|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

my aunt lives off of w 184.  right next to the GW
I haven't been there in years but that whole area was really rough when I was a kid. Once you left the Columbia campus it was like entering a different world.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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