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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3706|London, England
per request from tucker, I'm making a new thread.

nukchebi0 wrote:

Jay wrote:

Blue Herring wrote:

Anyone remember when schools were about the highest quality education for kids?


Me neither.
They're just an indoctrination ground for the socially authoritarian left and right.
Are you fucking serious?
Yes, absolutely serious.

The right wants prayer in school. The left wants all religious symbolism removed from school.
The right wants creationism taught in school. The left wants creationism left out of texts (which I agree with, duh).
The right wants sex education classes removed from school, or abstinence only education installed. The left wants sex education to start in kindergarten.

I can keep listing topics if you want, but it all comes down to both sides wanting to brainwash kids as early in life as possible. It's why the religious right are the most likely to homeschool their kids.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
jord
Member
+2,382|5026|The North, beyond the wall.
I don't see a problem with leaving religion out of schools, not teaching creationism or teaching sex education at a relatively young age( say 12 as an example).

I wouldn't even consider myself particularly far left either.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3706|London, England

jord wrote:

I don't see a problem with leaving religion out of schools, not teaching creationism or teaching sex education at a relatively young age( say 12 as an example).

I wouldn't even consider myself particularly far left either.
I was just using examples from American politics. I'm iffy on the first one just because I don't see any harm in celebrating the cultures present in the school. If the school had a Muslim population what's the harm in displaying info about Ramadan during the holiday? Same for putting up a Christmas tree. Atheists scream about religious indoctrination and want it all torn out. Totally disrespectful.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|5007|BC, Canada
It would be nice for religion to be taught in schools, but not as factual teachings. More, history and beliefs of the different religions, creationism being a part of those beliefs. Let the kids decide for themselves what they believe.

If they are going to teach Christianity in schools, the other major religions should be taught as well.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3706|London, England

Nic wrote:

It would be nice for religion to be taught in schools, but not as factual teachings. More, history and beliefs of the different religions, creationism being a part of those beliefs. Let the kids decide for themselves what they believe.

If they are going to teach Christianity in schools, the other major religions should be taught as well.
I think that stuff should be left at home. Why would a science department teach creationism? I wouldn't want to force biology teachers to do that. If you want to have an elective religion class, fine. But you can't make that stuff a requirement.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|4890|Texas - Bigger than France
Creationism is important to teach, so people can figure out why its stupid...don't you think?

What's the hit rate?  Like one in 100?  I like those odds, don't you?
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|4672|New Haven, CT
Political interest groups want to shape school curriculum in the image of their personal beliefs, but that doesn't mean the education received is influenced by the success of their endeavors. I didn't notice an educational experience in school that was systemically biased significantly in one way or another, and when the personal biases of teachers did interfere with their teaching, I had enough of a faculty for critical thought (both genetically and from quality instruction in other classes) to account for them.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,615|5085|Oxferd

Jay wrote:

Nic wrote:

It would be nice for religion to be taught in schools, but not as factual teachings. More, history and beliefs of the different religions, creationism being a part of those beliefs. Let the kids decide for themselves what they believe.

If they are going to teach Christianity in schools, the other major religions should be taught as well.
I think that stuff should be left at home. Why would a science department teach creationism? I wouldn't want to force biology teachers to do that.
who says the science department would teach it, just throw it into some world religions elective.
went to a catholic grade school and high school and the science teacher never taught about creationism, always the religion teacher . .that i recall anyway lol

this western theologies class im taking is interesting, shows how many bible stories were taken from other myths and the development of judaism into a monotheistic religion.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/6644/Xj4f2.png
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|4262|...

Jay wrote:

The right wants prayer in school. The left wants all religious symbolism removed from school.
The right wants creationism taught in school. The left wants creationism left out of texts (which I agree with, duh).
The right wants sex education classes removed from school, or abstinence only education installed. The left wants sex education to start in kindergarten.

I can keep listing topics if you want, but it all comes down to both sides wanting to brainwash kids as early in life as possible. It's why the religious right are the most likely to homeschool their kids.
In regards to sex education...our parents could opt us out of the in school portion of sex education so that we walk down to the church and learn about abstinence.  I think about half the class opted out...but I think it was mostly because the kids convinced their parents so they could smoke a cig on the way to the church.

But, I think giving parents the option isn't so bad.
...
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3706|London, England

tuckergustav wrote:

Jay wrote:

The right wants prayer in school. The left wants all religious symbolism removed from school.
The right wants creationism taught in school. The left wants creationism left out of texts (which I agree with, duh).
The right wants sex education classes removed from school, or abstinence only education installed. The left wants sex education to start in kindergarten.

I can keep listing topics if you want, but it all comes down to both sides wanting to brainwash kids as early in life as possible. It's why the religious right are the most likely to homeschool their kids.
In regards to sex education...our parents could opt us out of the in school portion of sex education so that we walk down to the church and learn about abstinence.  I think about half the class opted out...but I think it was mostly because the kids convinced their parents so they could smoke a cig on the way to the church.

But, I think giving parents the option isn't so bad.
Well yeah, that was my point. On both sides of the aisle, people want to decide for you how you should raise your kids. There are social authoritarians on both sides of the political spectrum. Get 'em while they're young and you can bring up a whole new generation of people that think exactly like you do.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Whiteroom-
Pineapplewhat
+572|5007|BC, Canada

RTHKI wrote:

Jay wrote:

Nic wrote:

It would be nice for religion to be taught in schools, but not as factual teachings. More, history and beliefs of the different religions, creationism being a part of those beliefs. Let the kids decide for themselves what they believe.

If they are going to teach Christianity in schools, the other major religions should be taught as well.
I think that stuff should be left at home. Why would a science department teach creationism? I wouldn't want to force biology teachers to do that.
who says the science department would teach it, just throw it into some world religions elective.
went to a catholic grade school and high school and the science teacher never taught about creationism, always the religion teacher . .that i recall anyway lol

this western theologies class im taking is interesting, shows how many bible stories were taken from other myths and the development of judaism into a monotheistic religion.
^This, Never said it would have to be taught as a science, more a Theory and History. Religion still plays a major part in society and therefore I believe it is very important to teach what they are so that the next generation can have a better understanding of the various religions and where they are coming from. I would have enjoyed these classes and the knowledge that came with them.
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|4672|New Haven, CT
It's not necessarily that they want to indoctrinate students, though, its that they think their point of view is right and therefore should be taught.

Last edited by nukchebi0 (2011-04-12 12:17:03)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+1,966|3706|London, England

Nic wrote:

RTHKI wrote:

Jay wrote:


I think that stuff should be left at home. Why would a science department teach creationism? I wouldn't want to force biology teachers to do that.
who says the science department would teach it, just throw it into some world religions elective.
went to a catholic grade school and high school and the science teacher never taught about creationism, always the religion teacher . .that i recall anyway lol

this western theologies class im taking is interesting, shows how many bible stories were taken from other myths and the development of judaism into a monotheistic religion.
^This, Never said it would have to be taught as a science, more a Theory and History. Religion still plays a major part in society and therefore I believe it is very important to teach what they are so that the next generation can have a better understanding of the various religions and where they are coming from. I would have enjoyed these classes and the knowledge that came with them.
When I went to private school, we had diversity assemblies every week and they would teach us about different cultures and religions. It was ostensibly a Quaker school and I did have Quakerism class and a weekly Quaker meeting to attend but the religious aspect wasn't overbearing and they were very open in accepting other faiths/lifestyles etc.

None of that would fly in public schools. Someone would get offended and complain.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
mikkel
Member
+383|4949

nukchebi0 wrote:

It's not necessarily that they want to indoctrinate students, though, its that they think their point of view is right and therefore should be taught.
That's pretty much the definition of indoctrination.
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|4672|New Haven, CT

mikkel wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

It's not necessarily that they want to indoctrinate students, though, its that they think their point of view is right and therefore should be taught.
That's pretty much the definition of indoctrination.
The intent is different.
Kampframmer
Esq.
+313|3191|Amsterdam

saw this a while back, it is fun to watch and easy to follow, but it has some flaws here and there and does overreact a little.

No idea if its completely relevant to this thread, but you know, i just take big risks like that. Its how i roll
Kampframmer
Esq.
+313|3191|Amsterdam
On the subject of religion in schools though:

I had a sort of religious class. But it was more like philosofy for dummies. We were taught about all religions and to discuss and/or compare them, but the teacher was jewish, so we would have about 1 or 2 weeks for each religion and 2 months about judaism.
But i don;t mind religion being taught in school, but it needs to teach you about how those people think and for you to form an aopinion on it and not how you should think.
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|4262|...

I think that sounds ideal...however, it is very difficult to not let your own preferences show through and that is where the problem comes in, I think.  And liberal parents don't want their kids to be hammered with conservative points of view and vise versa.
...
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|5015

I have no problem my kids learning every religion out there in school.  Knowledge versus ignorance.  And then we go to church on Sundays.
Kampframmer
Esq.
+313|3191|Amsterdam

tuckergustav wrote:

I think that sounds ideal...however, it is very difficult to not let your own preferences show through and that is where the problem comes in, I think.  And liberal parents don't want their kids to be hammered with conservative points of view and vise versa.
Your own preferences were more than allowed to show through. Having a discussion about it was the whole point of that class. (although it rarely happenned)
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|4478|North Tonawanda, NY
I went to a public school and we learned some of the basics of the different 'major' religions around the world.  It was called "Global and Cultural Studies" (or similar)...I remember learning about the five pillars of faith in Islam, the eightfold path (Buddhism), the basics of Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, etc...  There was no theological discussion (and no preaching), but the cultural aspect was certainly discussed and taught.  I don't see any problem with that.  It was tied in with a history class, so it made perfect sense.  An awful lot of human history is tied to religion, so it really ought to be taught in a historical sense anyway.  I don't think 'religion' classes should be taught in public schools, as they imply some sense of indoctrination.
menzo
̏̏̏̏̏̏̏̏&#
+616|4794|Amsterdam‫
that bitch always got slightly annoyed when i stated my opinion that believing in a god is shit.
https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee37/menzo2003/fredbf2.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,618|4454|eXtreme to the maX
I've not really noticed it as much of a problem in the UK or Europe TBH, teachers used to be professional and keep their personal views out of the classroom.

Maybe you guys pay too much attention, and give too much air time to, single issue loons - which you seem to have more of also.

Maybe centrist social democracies are just better than the wild swings from left to right you experience in your two party state, and each side is so desperate for the next generation of voters they see schools as an indoctrinational battleground instead of a place of learning.
Your virus system is infected with windows. Please to be giving me your credit card details urgently
Kampframmer
Esq.
+313|3191|Amsterdam

menzo wrote:

that bitch always got slightly annoyed when i stated my opinion that believing in a god is shit.
Of course she would.
there were plenty of people that would go: God isnt real hurr durr, but with no supporting arguments whatsoever. So i dont blame her for getting annoyed if someone would claim that for the 10000000x time, even if you had good arguments.
Her problem was that she didnt allow for a lot of opinions that were in conflict with judaism (well argumented or not) if she was leading the discussion.
As a teacher helping a class to let every student have an opinion, she should've kept her own religious beliefs out of it and be neutral, but she didnt.
Kampframmer
Esq.
+313|3191|Amsterdam
She was also a total bitch in general. But so were a lot of other teachers.

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