BF2S Forums Wave of anti-abortion Bills sweeps US

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

What you do and do not have a problem with is not for me to judge. All I am saying is lets not pretend we are not ending a human life when an abortion is performed. Regardless if you have a problem with it or not is really a different issue.

How about sticking with it here chief.

So saying 90% of the abortions happen in the 1st trimester where brain patterns START to develop after 60 days. Emphasis on the start, because that doesn't mean they feel pain or anything, that just means their brain has just formed and is getting its bearings. The fetus doesn't even have all of its organs either, so if it were to be born in the first trimester it wouldn't survive at all. So where is the problem with getting an abortion in the 1st trimester.

For me personally, because it is a baby. For you, obviously there is no problem. Only thing is, you need to figure out another reason why it is not a problem for you because not being alive or not being human really isn't a rational argument.

Why isn't it a rational argument. We have no problem testing bacteria, viruses, various cells from the human body, and other animals. What is so different? There's just a larger concentration of underdeveloped cells in the 1st trimester fetus.

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

And what's the youngest ever recorded surviving premature baby?
21, 22 weeks? a full 2 months after "90%" of all abortions take place.

and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?

ever recorded
You know a unique totally miraculous event which was head line international news. Even with the best medical care babies born before 25 weeks have less then a 50% chance of survival.

Survival Rates

    Babies born at 23 weeks have a 17% chance of survival
    Babies born at 24 weeks have a 39% chance of survival
    Babies born at 25 weeks have a 50% chance of survival
    From 32 weeks onwards, most babies are able to survive with the help of medical Technology

1 in 10 premature babies will develop a permanent disability such as lung disease, cerebral palsy, blindness or deafness.
50% of premature babies born before the 26th week of gestation are disabled, a quarter severely so. (Fowler GA. Preemie problems: the sobering statistics. US News World Reports 2000; vol 129: pp56.)
Of children born before 26 weeks' gestation, results in 241 of the surviving children at six years (early school age) indicate a high level of disability as follows:

    22% severe disability (defined as cerebral palsy but not walking, low cognitive scores, blindness, profound deafness)
    24% moderate disability (defined as cerebral palsy but walking, IQ/cognitive scores in the special needs range, lesser degree of visual or hearing impairment)
    34% mild disability (defined as low IQ/cognitive score, squint, requiring glasses)
    20% no problems

http://www.preemiesurvival.org/info/index.html

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

How about sticking with it here chief.

So saying 90% of the abortions happen in the 1st trimester where brain patterns START to develop after 60 days. Emphasis on the start, because that doesn't mean they feel pain or anything, that just means their brain has just formed and is getting its bearings. The fetus doesn't even have all of its organs either, so if it were to be born in the first trimester it wouldn't survive at all. So where is the problem with getting an abortion in the 1st trimester.

For me personally, because it is a baby. For you, obviously there is no problem. Only thing is, you need to figure out another reason why it is not a problem for you because not being alive or not being human really isn't a rational argument.

Why isn't it a rational argument. We have no problem testing bacteria, viruses, various cells from the human body, and other animals. What is so different? There's just a larger concentration of underdeveloped cells in the 1st trimester fetus.

For you to make that argument, you need to tell us when exactly, it is no longer a blob and a human being.

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

For me personally, because it is a baby. For you, obviously there is no problem. Only thing is, you need to figure out another reason why it is not a problem for you because not being alive or not being human really isn't a rational argument.

Why isn't it a rational argument. We have no problem testing bacteria, viruses, various cells from the human body, and other animals. What is so different? There's just a larger concentration of underdeveloped cells in the 1st trimester fetus.

For you to make that argument, you need to tell us when exactly, it is no longer a blob and a human being.

Well I can tell you when it isn't a human being, and that's the first trimester. If it has a good chance of survival out of the womb then it's on its way to become a human being.

Personally however I don't consider anyone a Human being until they develop emotions, that could take years, but that isn't relevant.

UnkleRukus wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

Why isn't it a rational argument. We have no problem testing bacteria, viruses, various cells from the human body, and other animals. What is so different? There's just a larger concentration of underdeveloped cells in the 1st trimester fetus.

For you to make that argument, you need to tell us when exactly, it is no longer a blob and a human being.

Well I can tell you when it isn't a human being, and that's the first trimester. If it has a good chance of survival out of the womb then it's on its way to become a human being.

Personally however I don't consider anyone a Human being until they develop emotions, that could take years, but that isn't relevant.

are you a father?

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

ever recorded
You know a unique totally miraculous event which was head line international news. Even with the best medical care babies born before 25 weeks have less then a 50% chance of survival.

I will take 50 percent of 0 percent any time, how 'bout you?

1 in 10 chance that kid has a normal life. All so you can feel morally superior.

morally superior? I have stated that I have no right to impose my moral judgement on anyone. Not sure how you can claim that I feel morally superior.

I mean, I am pro-choice after all. You are fighting the wrong guy. I simply admit what is really happening and not trying to justify it by inventing reasons why the baby isn't human.

Last edited by lowing (2011-04-02 10:13:57)

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

are you a father?

Don't pull that cop out, you know he probably isn't.

I hate that debate "tactic".

It is not a tactic. If he is not a father, then he has no idea what he is talking about.

I just don't like the argument, it's dissmissive. Just because someones opinion changes when they have a kid doesn't mean it becomes any more correct.

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

Don't pull that cop out, you know he probably isn't.

I hate that debate "tactic".

It is not a tactic. If he is not a father, then he has no idea what he is talking about.

I just don't like the argument, it's dissmissive. Just because someones opinion changes when they have a kid doesn't mean it becomes any more correct.

lol, right is always right, and wrong is always wrong. Your opinion on the 2 is what changes, not the facts of the matter.

That is like say it is wrong if it happens to me but right if it happens to you.

Your perspective on right and wrong, good and bad and morality does a major shift when you become a veteran.

eleven bravo wrote:

Your perspective on right and wrong, good and bad and morality does a major shift when you become a veteran.

eleven bravo wrote:

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Your perspective on right and wrong, good and bad and morality does a major shift when you become a veteran.

regardless of right or wrong or morality, veteran or not, is their any question that you are still killing?

It is the reasons that change, the facts do not.

Abortion is exactly what it is, how you justify or not is what changes.

I was actually referring to how you think about muslims vs how someone who has had to work/fight/live with them.  that same "tactic" of dismissal works both ways

I have not dismissed anything. By saying he does not know what he talking about is correct. He is blinded by the disconnect he has with the unborn. Out of sight does not mean irrelevant. First thing that needs to happen is to admit to what abortion is actually doing.  It is killing. Period.

Now the only discussion left is, the justifications of it.

and IEDs

mortars never bothered me.  I was out on patrol constantly so IED's were my big fear.  even when we would pull an OP for too long and start getting mortared, the fuckers were never zeroed