Kinda hard to argue against this, isn't it ladies?Stingray24 wrote:
Whatever the gray areas may be, the outcome of abortion is very black and white. My son was born 8 weeks early and the thought of someone choosing to abort their child makes me sick. In the neonatal intensive care where my son received care after delivery there were babies born in the 2nd trimester. How a rational human being can label those little people non-human is beyond comprehension. Try that life experience ...Nic wrote:
Why nothing else, this is the whole point that you three religious children seem to be incapable of understanding. There are huge gray areas in this matter, it is not something to be talked about in absolutes. Once the three of you have a bit more life experience I would hope you are able to see this.War Man wrote:
Uzique, Burnz, shocking/dayarath, and all those pro-choice people. I have a yes or no question for you. Are you guys happy you didn't get aborted? Are you happy you are alive? Just answer yes or no, nothing else.
I don't see how it is, no.lowing wrote:
Kinda hard to argue against this, isn't it ladies?Stingray24 wrote:
Whatever the gray areas may be, the outcome of abortion is very black and white. My son was born 8 weeks early and the thought of someone choosing to abort their child makes me sick. In the neonatal intensive care where my son received care after delivery there were babies born in the 2nd trimester. How a rational human being can label those little people non-human is beyond comprehension. Try that life experience ...Nic wrote:
Why nothing else, this is the whole point that you three religious children seem to be incapable of understanding. There are huge gray areas in this matter, it is not something to be talked about in absolutes. Once the three of you have a bit more life experience I would hope you are able to see this.
Edit:
I thought you were pro choice anyway lowing, why are you karma'ing stingrays post as if it's a nail in the coffin of the pro choice argument? It's just a personal story, so what?
Last edited by jord (2011-04-02 05:30:01)
unless you are arguing that a pre-mature baby in ICU is not a human being, then it is a home run for pro- life. In the womb or in ICU makes no difference.jord wrote:
I don't see how it is, no.lowing wrote:
Kinda hard to argue against this, isn't it ladies?Stingray24 wrote:
Whatever the gray areas may be, the outcome of abortion is very black and white. My son was born 8 weeks early and the thought of someone choosing to abort their child makes me sick. In the neonatal intensive care where my son received care after delivery there were babies born in the 2nd trimester. How a rational human being can label those little people non-human is beyond comprehension. Try that life experience ...
Edit:
I thought you were pro choice anyway lowing, why are you karma'ing stingrays post as if it's a nail in the coffin of the pro choice argument? It's just a personal story, so what?
I am pro-choice for society, I am pro-life for myself, personally, after learning the hard way.
If you can argue against his post, please do so would love to hear the rationale that differentiates a pre-mature baby in the womb and in ICU.
Last edited by lowing (2011-04-02 05:47:06)
Are we even discussing abortion anymore or are we just going "D'awwwwww, babies are cute"? Just seeing the fetus isn't going to magically change my mind if I had a pregnant girlfriend and we weren't prepared for a child. I was born pre-maturely (weighed about 4.5 lbs IIRC) and nearly died around that time, but that has no impact on my views towards this matter.
Then make an argument against what Stingray posted.DesertFox- wrote:
Are we even discussing abortion anymore or are we just going "D'awwwwww, babies are cute"? Just seeing the fetus isn't going to magically change my mind if I had a pregnant girlfriend and we weren't prepared for a child. I was born pre-maturely (weighed about 4.5 lbs IIRC) and nearly died around that time, but that has no impact on my views towards this matter.
Explain away how a premature baby in ICU is not a human being, just like you do not consider them a human being in the womb.
No one's making that argument. If it's in the ICU, it's been birthed by some manner. It always was a human (Don't know what it would be if it wasn't a human, a cow perhaps). That doesn't make it special by any means.
I'm sorry, I am missing your argument where it is ok to abort a baby because it is not alive in the womb but it magically becomes alive if it is in the ICU. DOn't recall any arguments where babies are "Dawwwwwwww so cute" or "special".DesertFox- wrote:
No one's making that argument. If it's in the ICU, it's been birthed by some manner. It always was a human (Don't know what it would be if it wasn't a human, a cow perhaps). That doesn't make it special by any means.
Now, explain how a baby has no right to life in the womb, but a baby with the same maturity has a right to life in ICU
What kind of retarded straw man is this? It's alive at all times. It's not as if up until the moment it's born I can take a mallet to the mothers stomach. IMO, the most reasonable point at which a developing human gets rights is birth, which doesn't seem as stupid as saying a zygote has every right guaranteed by the constitution.
A home run against the pro choice argument? Lol wat. It's not even an argument...lowing wrote:
unless you are arguing that a pre-mature baby in ICU is not a human being, then it is a home run for pro- life. In the womb or in ICU makes no difference.jord wrote:
I don't see how it is, no.lowing wrote:
Kinda hard to argue against this, isn't it ladies?
Edit:
I thought you were pro choice anyway lowing, why are you karma'ing stingrays post as if it's a nail in the coffin of the pro choice argument? It's just a personal story, so what?
I am pro-choice for society, I am pro-life for myself, personally, after learning the hard way.
If you can argue against his post, please do so would love to hear the rationale that differentiates a pre-mature baby in the womb and in ICU.
There's obviously a large area in between a zygote and a pre mature baby...
Ok so if it is alive, then you are taking a life right? If it is a human being at all times, then you are taking a human life right?DesertFox- wrote:
What kind of retarded straw man is this? It's alive at all times. It's not as if up until the moment it's born I can take a mallet to the mothers stomach. IMO, the most reasonable point at which a developing human gets rights is birth, which doesn't seem as stupid as saying a zygote has every right guaranteed by the constitution.
I am pro choice, but lets not try to make ourselves feel better about what we are doing here by trying to dismiss the fetus as having no rights. Abortion is taking an innocent human life. Period. If you want to justify it, then stick with facts regarding, suffering, rape, etc....
There is, where does it start and and stop? Where exactly is the line where you are a human and no longer a mere disposable blob?jord wrote:
A home run against the pro choice argument? Lol wat. It's not even an argument...lowing wrote:
unless you are arguing that a pre-mature baby in ICU is not a human being, then it is a home run for pro- life. In the womb or in ICU makes no difference.jord wrote:
I don't see how it is, no.
Edit:
I thought you were pro choice anyway lowing, why are you karma'ing stingrays post as if it's a nail in the coffin of the pro choice argument? It's just a personal story, so what?
I am pro-choice for society, I am pro-life for myself, personally, after learning the hard way.
If you can argue against his post, please do so would love to hear the rationale that differentiates a pre-mature baby in the womb and in ICU.
There's obviously a large area in between a zygote and a pre mature baby...
I'm pretty sure most abortions happen like a few weeks after conception. So whats the problem? They're not even full on fetuses then.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
i don't know... where do you anti-abortion people draw the line between living organism and mere cell biology?lowing wrote:
There is, where does it start and and stop? Where exactly is the line where you are a human and no longer a mere disposable blob?jord wrote:
A home run against the pro choice argument? Lol wat. It's not even an argument...lowing wrote:
unless you are arguing that a pre-mature baby in ICU is not a human being, then it is a home run for pro- life. In the womb or in ICU makes no difference.
I am pro-choice for society, I am pro-life for myself, personally, after learning the hard way.
If you can argue against his post, please do so would love to hear the rationale that differentiates a pre-mature baby in the womb and in ICU.
There's obviously a large area in between a zygote and a pre mature baby...
do you weep everytime you have a wank and perform an atrocious act of genocide?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.UnkleRukus wrote:
I'm pretty sure most abortions happen like a few weeks after conception. So whats the problem? They're not even full on fetuses then.
I am not anti abortion, I am pro choice. I am anti abortion for myself therefore I have no line in the sand. So again where is yours?Uzique wrote:
i don't know... where do you anti-abortion people draw the line between living organism and mere cell biology?lowing wrote:
There is, where does it start and and stop? Where exactly is the line where you are a human and no longer a mere disposable blob?jord wrote:
A home run against the pro choice argument? Lol wat. It's not even an argument...
There's obviously a large area in between a zygote and a pre mature baby...
do you weep everytime you have a wank and perform an atrocious act of genocide?
i think the less people born in general, the betterlowing wrote:
I am not anti abortion, I am pro choice. I am anti abortion for myself therefore I have no line in the sand. So again where is yours?Uzique wrote:
i don't know... where do you anti-abortion people draw the line between living organism and mere cell biology?lowing wrote:
There is, where does it start and and stop? Where exactly is the line where you are a human and no longer a mere disposable blob?
do you weep everytime you have a wank and perform an atrocious act of genocide?
kill all foetii
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Okay, even so. There isn't any brain activity for 60 days after conception. Also 3 months is a pretty broad spectrum there, that means anywhere from the first week after detecting pregnancy to the absolute last day, 84th day. Still not seeing a problem with that at all.lowing wrote:
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.UnkleRukus wrote:
I'm pretty sure most abortions happen like a few weeks after conception. So whats the problem? They're not even full on fetuses then.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
What you do and do not have a problem with is not for me to judge. All I am saying is lets not pretend we are not ending a human life when an abortion is performed. Regardless if you have a problem with it or not is really a different issue.UnkleRukus wrote:
Okay, even so. There isn't any brain activity for 60 days after conception. Also 3 months is a pretty broad spectrum there, that means anywhere from the first week after detecting pregnancy to the absolute last day, 84th day. Still not seeing a problem with that at all.lowing wrote:
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.UnkleRukus wrote:
I'm pretty sure most abortions happen like a few weeks after conception. So whats the problem? They're not even full on fetuses then.
And what's the youngest ever recorded surviving premature baby?lowing wrote:
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.UnkleRukus wrote:
I'm pretty sure most abortions happen like a few weeks after conception. So whats the problem? They're not even full on fetuses then.
21, 22 weeks? a full 2 months after "90%" of all abortions take place.
How about sticking with it here chief.lowing wrote:
What you do and do not have a problem with is not for me to judge. All I am saying is lets not pretend we are not ending a human life when an abortion is performed. Regardless if you have a problem with it or not is really a different issue.UnkleRukus wrote:
Okay, even so. There isn't any brain activity for 60 days after conception. Also 3 months is a pretty broad spectrum there, that means anywhere from the first week after detecting pregnancy to the absolute last day, 84th day. Still not seeing a problem with that at all.lowing wrote:
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.
So saying 90% of the abortions happen in the 1st trimester where brain patterns START to develop after 60 days. Emphasis on the start, because that doesn't mean they feel pain or anything, that just means their brain has just formed and is getting its bearings. The fetus doesn't even have all of its organs either, so if it were to be born in the first trimester it wouldn't survive at all. So where is the problem with getting an abortion in the 1st trimester.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?DrunkFace wrote:
And what's the youngest ever recorded surviving premature baby?lowing wrote:
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.UnkleRukus wrote:
I'm pretty sure most abortions happen like a few weeks after conception. So whats the problem? They're not even full on fetuses then.
21, 22 weeks? a full 2 months after "90%" of all abortions take place.
First trimester is where most miscarriages occur as well.UnkleRukus wrote:
How about sticking with it here chief.lowing wrote:
What you do and do not have a problem with is not for me to judge. All I am saying is lets not pretend we are not ending a human life when an abortion is performed. Regardless if you have a problem with it or not is really a different issue.UnkleRukus wrote:
Okay, even so. There isn't any brain activity for 60 days after conception. Also 3 months is a pretty broad spectrum there, that means anywhere from the first week after detecting pregnancy to the absolute last day, 84th day. Still not seeing a problem with that at all.
So saying 90% of the abortions happen in the 1st trimester where brain patterns START to develop after 60 days. Emphasis on the start, because that doesn't mean they feel pain or anything, that just means their brain has just formed and is getting its bearings. The fetus doesn't even have all of its organs either, so if it were to be born in the first trimester it wouldn't survive at all. So where is the problem with getting an abortion in the 1st trimester.
I don't understand the topic in the first place. If abortion were banned it wouldn't stop people from having abortions. Unwanted pregnancies have always been dealt with throughout human history. Whether it's herbal, going to see an unlicensed doctor, or a boyfriend/husband kicking a woman down a flight of stairs, it happens and will continue to happen. Banning abortion is as pointless as banning alcohol and drugs.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
If stem-cell research had its way, that "blob" would go to those guys to develop cures, vaccines, DNA research, cancer research, so it wouldn't be a waste at all.lowing wrote:
and they can take place up to 24 weeks. So, where is the line in the sand where you are killing a human and disposing of a blob?DrunkFace wrote:
And what's the youngest ever recorded surviving premature baby?lowing wrote:
Umm 90% happen in the first trimester , that is the first 3 months not the first few weeks.
21, 22 weeks? a full 2 months after "90%" of all abortions take place.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
For me personally, because it is a baby. For you, obviously there is no problem. Only thing is, you need to figure out another reason why it is not a problem for you because not being alive or not being human really isn't a rational argument.UnkleRukus wrote:
How about sticking with it here chief.lowing wrote:
What you do and do not have a problem with is not for me to judge. All I am saying is lets not pretend we are not ending a human life when an abortion is performed. Regardless if you have a problem with it or not is really a different issue.UnkleRukus wrote:
Okay, even so. There isn't any brain activity for 60 days after conception. Also 3 months is a pretty broad spectrum there, that means anywhere from the first week after detecting pregnancy to the absolute last day, 84th day. Still not seeing a problem with that at all.
So saying 90% of the abortions happen in the 1st trimester where brain patterns START to develop after 60 days. Emphasis on the start, because that doesn't mean they feel pain or anything, that just means their brain has just formed and is getting its bearings. The fetus doesn't even have all of its organs either, so if it were to be born in the first trimester it wouldn't survive at all. So where is the problem with getting an abortion in the 1st trimester.
It's a grey area, obviously. Stingray's kid being born pre mature and turning out fine isn't the debate winner... It's nothing new.lowing wrote:
There is, where does it start and and stop? Where exactly is the line where you are a human and no longer a mere disposable blob?jord wrote:
A home run against the pro choice argument? Lol wat. It's not even an argument...lowing wrote:
unless you are arguing that a pre-mature baby in ICU is not a human being, then it is a home run for pro- life. In the womb or in ICU makes no difference.
I am pro-choice for society, I am pro-life for myself, personally, after learning the hard way.
If you can argue against his post, please do so would love to hear the rationale that differentiates a pre-mature baby in the womb and in ICU.
There's obviously a large area in between a zygote and a pre mature baby...