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2011-03-24 18:47:46
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5500|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:


He's a bit confused, as those jobs are private sector jobs in divisions of private sector corporations. It's not like the government is building those bombs in government bomb factories with government workers.
No, I'm not confused. How is it a private sector job if the money is coming wholly from the government? It's merely the illusion of a private company. The company would not exist without government largesse, therefore it does not fit the definition of the private sector.
Wrong. Those companies are so diversified that they absolutely WOULD exist without those government contracts.
Yeah? Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics would exist and thrive without government contracts? Nice to know. Glad we can wean them off the tit.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-24 18:49:21
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5379|Cleveland, Ohio

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:


No, I'm not confused. How is it a private sector job if the money is coming wholly from the government? It's merely the illusion of a private company. The company would not exist without government largesse, therefore it does not fit the definition of the private sector.
Wrong. Those companies are so diversified that they absolutely WOULD exist without those government contracts.
Yeah? Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics would exist and thrive without government contracts? Nice to know. Glad we can wean them off the tit.
ya bs i agree.  most of northern virginia would not exist without war
2011-03-24 18:49:39
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6809

Jay wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

burnzz wrote:

light, sweet, crude . . .
Yum.
Oil Lobbyist!!!!   
2011-03-24 18:53:06
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6141|...
Atleast lockheed can provide useful tech and services, but what the fuck are you funding blackwater / xe (whatever its called) for?
inane little opines
2011-03-24 18:55:29
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5500|London, England

Shocking wrote:

Atleast lockheed can provide useful tech and services, but what the fuck are you funding blackwater / xe (whatever its called) for?
Good question. When I was in Iraq they were paying KBR contractors six figure salaries to cook and perform guard duty. Nevermind that we brought our own cooks with us and were perfectly capable of performing guard duty at a fraction of the cost. Never quite understood it myself. War profiteering at its finest.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-24 18:55:34
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6553|'Murka

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:


No, I'm not confused. How is it a private sector job if the money is coming wholly from the government? It's merely the illusion of a private company. The company would not exist without government largesse, therefore it does not fit the definition of the private sector.
Wrong. Those companies are so diversified that they absolutely WOULD exist without those government contracts.
Yeah? Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics would exist and thrive without government contracts? Nice to know. Glad we can wean them off the tit.
Do you have any idea how diversified those companies are? They do a lot more than make planes and bombs. And those they do make, they make more for others than they make for the US.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2011-03-24 18:57:14
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5379|Cleveland, Ohio

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Wrong. Those companies are so diversified that they absolutely WOULD exist without those government contracts.
Yeah? Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics would exist and thrive without government contracts? Nice to know. Glad we can wean them off the tit.
Do you have any idea how diversified those companies are? They do a lot more than make planes and bombs. And those they do make, they make more for others than they make for the US.
they would not be a company without the govt
2011-03-24 18:59:52
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6141|...

Jay wrote:

Good question. When I was in Iraq they were paying KBR contractors six figure salaries to cook and perform guard duty. Nevermind that we brought our own cooks with us and were perfectly capable of performing guard duty at a fraction of the cost. Never quite understood it myself. War profiteering at its finest.
I really don't understand it, at all. These companies shouldn't even exist - they're basically mercenaries and often times get in the spotlight for being terrible, why in hell trust them with doing anything?
inane little opines
2011-03-24 19:01:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6793|USA

11 Bravo wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:


Yeah? Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics would exist and thrive without government contracts? Nice to know. Glad we can wean them off the tit.
Do you have any idea how diversified those companies are? They do a lot more than make planes and bombs. And those they do make, they make more for others than they make for the US.
they would not be a company without the govt
Wow, you don't have much faith in the abilities and power of the private sector do ya? As if govt. was efficient and under budget for anything it did.
2011-03-24 19:03:53
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5379|Cleveland, Ohio

lowing wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Do you have any idea how diversified those companies are? They do a lot more than make planes and bombs. And those they do make, they make more for others than they make for the US.
they would not be a company without the govt
Wow, you don't have much faith in the abilities and power of the private sector do ya? As if govt. was efficient and under budget for anything it did.
i do. lockheed aint private no matter what you say.
2011-03-24 19:04:17
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5500|London, England

Shocking wrote:

Jay wrote:

Good question. When I was in Iraq they were paying KBR contractors six figure salaries to cook and perform guard duty. Nevermind that we brought our own cooks with us and were perfectly capable of performing guard duty at a fraction of the cost. Never quite understood it myself. War profiteering at its finest.
I really don't understand it, at all. These companies shouldn't even exist - they're basically mercenaries and often times get in the spotlight for being terrible, why in hell trust them with doing anything?
Well, for one thing, they bring down the overall number of official troops. This allows politicians to say they have deployed less than they really have. An added bonus is that the mercs won't have their names listed in the body count by the press. It's a way of getting around public opinion issues.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-24 19:06:59
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5728

There has been conflict between the E.U. and U.S. for years regarding both groups using money to pump up Airbus and Boeing. The fact that both companies rely on tremendous amounts of government money to operate is an economic fact.
2011-03-24 19:07:35
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6793|USA

11 Bravo wrote:

lowing wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:


they would not be a company without the govt
Wow, you don't have much faith in the abilities and power of the private sector do ya? As if govt. was efficient and under budget for anything it did.
i do. lockheed aint private no matter what you say.
Actually it is, it just has govt. contracts along with civilian contracts.... and so what, the govt. needs to get shit done as well, and since they can never do it under budget, on time, or efficiently, might as well hire the work out to those that know how to do it best.
2011-03-24 19:12:10
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6141|...

Jay wrote:

Well, for one thing, they bring down the overall number of official troops. This allows politicians to say they have deployed less than they really have. An added bonus is that the mercs won't have their names listed in the body count by the press. It's a way of getting around public opinion issues.
Bah, they have to be stupid to think that this is somehow beneficial... weigh it against all the controversies surrounding that sort of companies and public opinion probably couldn't be worse. Shouldn't be anywhere near a conflict zone, the whole business is idiotic.
inane little opines
2011-03-24 19:12:37
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5728

Lockheed Martin revenue stream for 2010 - Nearly 45 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_M … orporation
Lockheed Martin government contracts for 2009 - 38 and a half billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_US … ontractors
Whoever said Lockheed could survive without U.S. Fed money is very very wrong.
2011-03-24 19:14:38
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6793|USA

Macbeth wrote:

Lockheed Martin revenue stream for 2010 - Nearly 45 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_M … orporation
Lockheed Martin government contracts for 2009 - 38 and a half billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_US … ontractors
Whoever said Lockheed could survive without U.S. Fed money is very very wrong.
Plenty of companies out there that are huge WITHOUT govt. hand holding. There is no reason to think the US aircraft industry, would not exist without the govt.

Last edited by lowing (2011-03-24 19:17:24)

2011-03-24 19:17:11
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5500|London, England

lowing wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Lockheed Martin revenue stream for 2010 - Nearly 45 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_M … orporation
Lockheed Martin government contracts for 2009 - 38 and a half billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_US … ontractors
Whoever said Lockheed could survive without U.S. Fed money is very very wrong.
Plenty of companies out there that are huge WITHOUT govt. hand holding. There is no reason to think the US aircraft, would not exist without the govt.
Yeah ok.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-24 19:17:54
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6553|'Murka

11 Bravo wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Jay wrote:


Yeah? Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics would exist and thrive without government contracts? Nice to know. Glad we can wean them off the tit.
Do you have any idea how diversified those companies are? They do a lot more than make planes and bombs. And those they do make, they make more for others than they make for the US.
they would not be a company without the govt
You're wrong. Simple as.

Macbeth wrote:

Lockheed Martin revenue stream for 2010 - Nearly 45 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_M … orporation
Lockheed Martin government contracts for 2009 - 38 and a half billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_US … ontractors
Whoever said Lockheed could survive without U.S. Fed money is very very wrong.
Someone needs to learn what FMS is. A lot of that is pass-through, to include foreign participation in US-run programs (like F-35, F-16, etc). That's not US federal money...that's foreign money. Same goes for munitions they produce on US govt contract vehicles for foreign customers.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2011-03-24 19:18:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6793|USA

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Lockheed Martin revenue stream for 2010 - Nearly 45 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_M … orporation
Lockheed Martin government contracts for 2009 - 38 and a half billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_100_US … ontractors
Whoever said Lockheed could survive without U.S. Fed money is very very wrong.
Plenty of companies out there that are huge WITHOUT govt. hand holding. There is no reason to think the US aircraft, would not exist without the govt.
Yeah ok.
Jay, I asked ya twice already and you never answered. Does your company hold govt. contracts or contracts for companies that work with the govt.?
2011-03-24 19:18:38
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5728

FEOS is formatting quote trees again. I'm fucking out of here.
2011-03-24 19:19:33
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6553|'Murka

Macbeth wrote:

FEOS is formatting quote trees again. I'm fucking out of here.
Waah.

One was from USM, one was from you. Would you rather I did two separate posts?

Grow up, ffs.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2011-03-24 19:20:40
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5500|London, England

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:


Plenty of companies out there that are huge WITHOUT govt. hand holding. There is no reason to think the US aircraft, would not exist without the govt.
Yeah ok.
Jay, I asked ya twice already and you never answered. Does your company hold govt. contracts or contracts for companies that work with the govt.?
No we don't. I was busy today when you asked seeing as I work and all.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-24 19:24:11
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6793|USA

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:


Yeah ok.
Jay, I asked ya twice already and you never answered. Does your company hold govt. contracts or contracts for companies that work with the govt.?
No we don't. I was busy today when you asked seeing as I work and all.
You mean you are an electrical engineer and you work on nothing involved with the govt.?  Nothing? The govt. does not utilize anything your company does? What is it you work on then?
2011-03-24 19:25:29
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6141|...
Some companies can't survive without government contracts, but I can deal with that if the services they provide are useful, which lockheed martin does. Can't expect a company like heckler & koch to survive without gov. funding either, they make guns after all, a big part of rheinmetall's revenue is defense contracts as well.

When it gets to the ridiculous such as having Raytheon develop a powered exoskeleton in a multi million contract that's when my bullshit alarm starts to go off, why the fuck even try to pursue that technology now? It won't even be viable for the next 20 years. The japanese who are doing it -for disabled people- seem to be doing much better in the field than this sarcos stuff, too.
inane little opines
2011-03-24 19:29:18
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5500|London, England

lowing wrote:

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:


Jay, I asked ya twice already and you never answered. Does your company hold govt. contracts or contracts for companies that work with the govt.?
No we don't. I was busy today when you asked seeing as I work and all.
You mean you are an electrical engineer and you work on nothing involved with the govt.?  Nothing? The govt. does not utilize anything your company does? What is it you work on then?
We provide engineering support to construction firms. If they have issues, they subcontract out to us instead of having their own engineers on staff. Has the company worked with the city of New York in the past? Probably. Are they currently? No. NYC happens to be broke. Most of our work comes from the burgeoning luxury apartment industry since they have a nice loophole exempting them from rent control.

Even if we have taken money from the government in the past it doesn't make us equal to a bunch of leeches like the defense industry. We survive and profit quite well without taking a penny from the taxpayer.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

 

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