BF2S Forums for all of you anti- death penalty folks.

8 pages of death penalty talk and not one post about mumia abu jamal.



free mumia

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Whatever, you wrote it, you explain it.

I did explain it, in the rest of the post Dilbert.

Yes I would prefer to have no crimes against anyone, but simply isn't the world we live in, nor, as stated above is there a deterrence to change that.

Well, other parts of the world achieve murder and violent crime rates a small fraction of those in your country, and without everyone having a gun, jailing huge numbers of people or the death penalty.

Might be worth looking at deterrence instead of drooling over punishment don't you think?

Could be because oh I don't know, in other countries everyone has the same thing, there is nothing to envy or take from someone else that you don't already have?

As stated before, I don't drool over punishment. I simply recognize that if conscience and value for human life isn't a good enough reason for you not rape and kill, then fear of being sheltered, feed and clothed, with access to gyms, libraries, college and basketball courts isn't going to do much to deter you. Of course I could be wrong.

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

in other countries everyone has the same thing

LOL OK.

Of course I could be wrong.

The figures prove you are.

So you think that we are more prone ot criminal activity in the states because we have guns, and not because of underlying social issues, envy, entitlement etc. It i just because we have guns?  Tell me all about it.


What figures?


were you planning on addressing the rest of my post or just continue to cherry pick and invent shit for you to argue against?

Last edited by lowing (2011-03-14 05:04:09)

presidentsheep wrote:

As much as I'm against widespread gun ownership, it's got nothing to do with the crime rates in America. They don't help reduce it but I don't think they contribute, other countries have similar or more gun ownership numbers but with a much lower crime rate.

I am against wide spread gun ownership as well, and so are our laws.

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

So you think that we are more prone ot criminal activity in the states because we have guns, and not because of underlying social issues, envy, entitlement etc. It i just because we have guns?  Tell me all about it.

Dunno really, NFL and a junk food diet make people angry I guess.
Free and easy access to unregistered firearms can't help.

What figures??

The intentional homicide rates, the only figures I quoted.

Ok so you think it is the NFL and junk food, and not social issues....got it.


and do those stats claim that our high crime rate is because of guns?

Dilbert_X wrote:

Stats don't claim anything, they're just stats.

Could be WWF also. I'd be angry if that was the best sport I had on TV.

Oh so why post meaningless stats then argue it is because of gun ownership if the stats do not draw that conclusion?

Dilbert_X wrote:

Because this thread is unrelated to gun ownership?
I was making some guesses, not conclusions

Oh ok.....just wondering.


So now that we have established your stats are worthless to the discussion of deterrence vs punishment (or anything else really), shall we proceed?

Dilbert_X wrote:

No we've established the US has a high crime rate, and that apparently violent criminals aren't deterred from violent crimes by the death penalty.

On gun ownership we've established nothing, except that you like them.

I seem to remember saying that, if a criminal is not deterred by his conscience and sense of right and wrong and morality and values, and rapes and kills an innocent person anyway, I do not think there is any deterrence available to prevent it. Certainly not clothes, shelter, free food, gym, libraries, college and the removal of all responsibility.

Any RELEVANT comments on that opinion?


and yes I like guns, and yet I am not a rapist murderer, child molester, thief, armed robber etc.....go figure.

Last edited by lowing (2011-03-14 05:44:22)

Dilbert_X wrote:

if a criminal is not deterred by his conscience and sense of right and wrong and morality and values, and rapes and kills an innocent person anyway, I do not think there is any deterrence available to prevent it. Certainly not clothes, shelter, free food, gym, libraries, college and the removal of all responsibility.

Any RELEVANT comments on that opinion?

Seems a higher proportion of Americans have no conscience than people in other nations according to that logic.

Or your criminal justice system is shit.

You pick one, I'm fine with either.

you are going back to why we are violent, I am asking what you think deterrence from violence is supposed to be after the fact.

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

am asking what you think deterrence from violence is supposed to be after the fact.

http://i.picasion.com/pic38/2555670bb9d … 79e29d.gif

Ahh so you have no answers to deter people from violence by using those that have already committed violent crimes or to keep people from re-commiting violent crimes.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its pretty hard to deter someone from committing a crime if they've already committed it.

Ya think?

How about using people that have committed crimes as an example to others, or to keep people from committing crimes again. Ya know, like I said

Varegg wrote:

Fact is lowing that countries that have the death penalty doesn't have less murders, in most cases they have a higher murder rate than countries without the death penalty ...

are you drawing the conclusion that the death penalty is the reason for violent crimes? What is the point of that fact?

I will ask again, if a conscience morality and values is  not deterrence enough to stop a criminal from raping and killing a person, what deterrence will?

Varegg wrote:

Not drawing any conclusions at all, just saying that others have already ...

There are studies that concludes the above mentioned in addition with countries that have a high millitary activity also have a higher murder rate ...

.........and we are talking about deterrence. All I keep hearing is how the death penalty is not a deterrence. Well if deterrence is the goal, and the death penalty is not a deterrence, and neither is a conscience, what is? Ya see, I want to punish the fucker, everyone else keeps mentioning deterrence, fine, so what is a deterrence?