BREAKING NEWS: Christians do something stupid
thank you burnzz for pointing out, that yet again his edumacation is quite thorough.eleven bravo wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PuritanStubbee wrote:
there you go again proving the benefits of your edumacationeleven bravo wrote:
so Im taking that as a no then.
youre a waste of your father's seed
very good
you found the Puritan wiki entry. yes they were a nasty bunch of people at times. where does it say that they founded the USA? they certainly colonized the 'new world' as did many other European nationalities. my wife is a descendant of 2 of those families.
I also don't see in the article any of the founding fathers of the USA. names like washington, adams, franklin, madison etc.
Puritans did not write your constitution or sign the declaration of independence.
do you have any more stupid retorts?
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
They just founded Massachusetts is all. And Catholics founded Maryland, and Quakers founded Pennsylvania.Stubbee wrote:
thank you burnzz for pointing out, that yet again his edumacation is quite thorough.eleven bravo wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PuritanStubbee wrote:
there you go again proving the benefits of your edumacation
youre a waste of your father's seed
very good
you found the Puritan wiki entry. yes they were a nasty bunch of people at times. where does it say that they founded the USA? they certainly colonized the 'new world' as did many other European nationalities. my wife is a descendant of 2 of those families.
I also don't see in the article any of the founding fathers of the USA. names like washington, adams, franklin, madison etc.
Puritans did not write your constitution or sign the declaration of independence.
do you have any more stupid retorts?
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Hasn't this guy been ridden out of the state on a rail yet?
who are you and why are you strugglingStubbee wrote:
there you go again proving the benefits of your edumacationeleven bravo wrote:
so Im taking that as a no then.Stubbee wrote:
not talking mayflower which is some 150 years or so before the USA came in to being
Last edited by Spark (2011-03-10 21:20:34)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
great go for itJohnG@lt wrote:
They just founded Massachusetts is all. And Catholics founded Maryland, and Quakers founded Pennsylvania.Stubbee wrote:
thank you burnzz for pointing out, that yet again his edumacation is quite thorough.
very good
you found the Puritan wiki entry. yes they were a nasty bunch of people at times. where does it say that they founded the USA? they certainly colonized the 'new world' as did many other European nationalities. my wife is a descendant of 2 of those families.
I also don't see in the article any of the founding fathers of the USA. names like washington, adams, franklin, madison etc.
Puritans did not write your constitution or sign the declaration of independence.
do you have any more stupid retorts?
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
what does whomever founding of MA or MD or PA or any religious group founding any frikken state have to do with the absence of religious references in your Constitution?
The wisdom of the crafters of your constitution is astounding. They attempted to create a country where regardless of your religious affiliation, you would be free to practice it. First time that happened in the world: a country with universal religious acceptance . And now people like the ones crafting these stupid laws are trying to reverse/eliminate/obliviate that fine piece of work and thus change the very nature of your country.
And by some of your posts here, you seemingly do not care.
over the years christian religious references have crept into your government. 'In god we trust' on your coins starting in 1860s and paper money in 1957; 'one nation under god' in your pledge of allegiance in 1954 (do any of you know the original wording?)
as for struggling, I blame the US educamation system. having a hard time dumbing it down to their level so they 'get it'. it is a struggle.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
The key word there is "try." They can try all they want, but it will never succeed.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Thanks for the history lesson. Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue meStubbee wrote:
great go for itJohnG@lt wrote:
They just founded Massachusetts is all. And Catholics founded Maryland, and Quakers founded Pennsylvania.Stubbee wrote:
thank you burnzz for pointing out, that yet again his edumacation is quite thorough.
very good
you found the Puritan wiki entry. yes they were a nasty bunch of people at times. where does it say that they founded the USA? they certainly colonized the 'new world' as did many other European nationalities. my wife is a descendant of 2 of those families.
I also don't see in the article any of the founding fathers of the USA. names like washington, adams, franklin, madison etc.
Puritans did not write your constitution or sign the declaration of independence.
do you have any more stupid retorts?
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
what does whomever founding of MA or MD or PA or any religious group founding any frikken state have to do with the absence of religious references in your Constitution?
The wisdom of the crafters of your constitution is astounding. They attempted to create a country where regardless of your religious affiliation, you would be free to practice it. First time that happened in the world: a country with universal religious acceptance . And now people like the ones crafting these stupid laws are trying to reverse/eliminate/obliviate that fine piece of work and thus change the very nature of your country.
And by some of your posts here, you seemingly do not care.
over the years christian religious references have crept into your government. 'In god we trust' on your coins starting in 1860s and paper money in 1957; 'one nation under god' in your pledge of allegiance in 1954 (do any of you know the original wording?)
as for struggling, I blame the US educamation system. having a hard time dumbing it down to their level so they 'get it'. it is a struggle.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
thanks
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
troll thread lol are you mods blind? and you clean up a troll thread. this is awesome.
i could write you 10,000 words on why the puritan theology and identity helped to shape american identity.
puritan covenant culture accounts for a lot more than just the high-echelons of american society/culture and the early settler colonies.
just go read this it's amazing
http://www.amazon.com/Hellfire-Nation-P … 0300094841
puritan covenant culture accounts for a lot more than just the high-echelons of american society/culture and the early settler colonies.
just go read this it's amazing
http://www.amazon.com/Hellfire-Nation-P … 0300094841
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Why is this forum inundated with foreigners trying to teach Americans about their own history?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
who is trying to 'teach' you anything? it's an argument for the influence of puritanism in the american moral consciousness.
are you seriously arguing for a wholly experential approach to knowledge?
in that case you should probably stop posting in israel-palestine threads
kind of ridiculous you think you're somehow automatically more qualified on a subject because you were born somewhere, arbitrarily, several hundred years after the period that the book/argument talks about. i guess all of that information just naturally seeped into you from, uh, being around that vague area.
are you seriously arguing for a wholly experential approach to knowledge?
in that case you should probably stop posting in israel-palestine threads
kind of ridiculous you think you're somehow automatically more qualified on a subject because you were born somewhere, arbitrarily, several hundred years after the period that the book/argument talks about. i guess all of that information just naturally seeped into you from, uh, being around that vague area.
Last edited by Uzique (2011-03-11 07:39:36)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
oh and the book was written by an ivy league establishment academic. go figure re: "foreigners".
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
There's no doubt that Puritans played a role, but Puritanism itself died out many centuries ago. Perhaps aspects of it stuck around but this country was far more heavily influenced by the Calvinism brought to this nation by the Scots-Irish. Perhaps I'm too hung up on the word Puritan.
Let's set a variable: Zorks = Hardcore Christian zealots that believed in taking Christianity 'back to its roots' while dispensing with the 'frippery' of the Anglican. Lutheran and Catholic churches.
Yes, this country was founded by many groups of Zorks who were persecuted in Europe because of their 'heresy'. Anabaptists, Calvinists, Quakers, English Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. all played a role.
I just take issue with your use of the word Puritan to describe all these Zorks. It places undue influence on Massachusetts, especially since the Puritans were relatively quickly pushed aside up there and relegated to towns like Salem on the outskirts of colonial life. They were a flash in the pan and make for a nice Thanksgiving story.
Let's set a variable: Zorks = Hardcore Christian zealots that believed in taking Christianity 'back to its roots' while dispensing with the 'frippery' of the Anglican. Lutheran and Catholic churches.
Yes, this country was founded by many groups of Zorks who were persecuted in Europe because of their 'heresy'. Anabaptists, Calvinists, Quakers, English Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. all played a role.
I just take issue with your use of the word Puritan to describe all these Zorks. It places undue influence on Massachusetts, especially since the Puritans were relatively quickly pushed aside up there and relegated to towns like Salem on the outskirts of colonial life. They were a flash in the pan and make for a nice Thanksgiving story.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i think it's more to do with the general cultural and social influence of certain puritan theological ideas. nobody is contending that the puritan sect itself had an actual power or lasting influence-- but some of the ideas were vital in shaping american identity. the covenant, for example, could arguably be traced to the inclusive patriotism/nationalism of today, as well as the use of other contrasting groups to identity yourselves. the 'us/them' dichotomy - 'chosen/heretics' binary etc.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Perhaps, but that patriotism/nationalism you speak of is more the product of JFK in 20th century America than anything else. It became part of his mythology when he quoted Winthrop and the City on a Hill was transferred and broadened to encompass all of America. JFK was from Massachusetts and dredged up that bit of Massachusetts history for political propaganda purposes.Uzique wrote:
i think it's more to do with the general cultural and social influence of certain puritan theological ideas. nobody is contending that the puritan sect itself had an actual power or lasting influence-- but some of the ideas were vital in shaping american identity. the covenant, for example, could arguably be traced to the inclusive patriotism/nationalism of today, as well as the use of other contrasting groups to identity yourselves. the 'us/them' dichotomy - 'chosen/heretics' binary etc.
Don't make the mistake of attributing traits belonging to Massachusetts to the rest of America. Each colony was relatively isolated for many decades and built up its own culture. Outside of the abolishionist movement, Massachusetts has played a pretty small role in American culture.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
city on a hill is a direct puritan concept. what was winthrop? it's all part of the puritan/calvinist/methodist/unitarian genesis
i'm not bestowing MA's culture upon the rest of the states... but it was the cultural and intellectual seat of the nation for most of its infancy, no? it still is, to a lesser degree of elitism, no? don't underestimate it's influence just because of geographic or demographic factors.
i'm not bestowing MA's culture upon the rest of the states... but it was the cultural and intellectual seat of the nation for most of its infancy, no? it still is, to a lesser degree of elitism, no? don't underestimate it's influence just because of geographic or demographic factors.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
No. I'd classify Virginia as the intellectual and cultural seat.Uzique wrote:
city on a hill is a direct puritan concept. what was winthrop? it's all part of the puritan/calvinist/methodist/unitarian genesis
i'm not bestowing MA's culture upon the rest of the states... but it was the cultural and intellectual seat of the nation for most of its infancy, no? it still is, to a lesser degree of elitism, no? don't underestimate it's influence just because of geographic or demographic factors.
The libertarian roots of America mostly stem from the pens of Virginians. Madison, Washington, Jefferson, Henry, Monroe were all Virginians. New York provided the country with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton. Pennsylvania gave us Benjamin Franklin. Massachusetts gave us John Adams. No single colony played a more important role at this nations birth than Virginia. Massachusetts simply provided the hotheads that sparked the revolution.
Also, please don't overemphasize the importance of Harvard in America. Calling it the cultural (or intellectual for that matter) seat is... amusing. Besides, Massachusetts today is the most liberal of all states in the nation. I don't think the Puritans would've approved of gay marriage So I'd say that religions influence in its home state is long gone.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-03-11 08:22:38)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Yeah Massachusetts has healthcare I think... other states don'tJohnG@lt wrote:
No. I'd classify Virginia as the intellectual and cultural seat.Uzique wrote:
city on a hill is a direct puritan concept. what was winthrop? it's all part of the puritan/calvinist/methodist/unitarian genesis
i'm not bestowing MA's culture upon the rest of the states... but it was the cultural and intellectual seat of the nation for most of its infancy, no? it still is, to a lesser degree of elitism, no? don't underestimate it's influence just because of geographic or demographic factors.
The libertarian roots of America mostly stem from the pens of Virginians. Madison, Washington, Jefferson, Henry, Monroe were all Virginians. New York provided the country with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton. Pennsylvania gave us Benjamin Franklin. Massachusetts gave us John Adams. No single colony played a more important role at this nations birth than Virginia. Massachusetts simply provided the hotheads that sparked the revolution.
Also, please don't overemphasize the importance of Harvard in America. Calling it the cultural (or intellectual for that matter) seat is... amusing. Besides, Massachusetts today is the most liberal of all states in the nation. I don't think the Puritans would've approved of gay marriage So I'd say that religions influence in its home state is long gone.
Romneycare, yeah. It was the model for Obamacare... and it's bankrupt.Trotskygrad wrote:
Yeah Massachusetts has healthcare I think... other states don'tJohnG@lt wrote:
No. I'd classify Virginia as the intellectual and cultural seat.Uzique wrote:
city on a hill is a direct puritan concept. what was winthrop? it's all part of the puritan/calvinist/methodist/unitarian genesis
i'm not bestowing MA's culture upon the rest of the states... but it was the cultural and intellectual seat of the nation for most of its infancy, no? it still is, to a lesser degree of elitism, no? don't underestimate it's influence just because of geographic or demographic factors.
The libertarian roots of America mostly stem from the pens of Virginians. Madison, Washington, Jefferson, Henry, Monroe were all Virginians. New York provided the country with John Jay and Alexander Hamilton. Pennsylvania gave us Benjamin Franklin. Massachusetts gave us John Adams. No single colony played a more important role at this nations birth than Virginia. Massachusetts simply provided the hotheads that sparked the revolution.
Also, please don't overemphasize the importance of Harvard in America. Calling it the cultural (or intellectual for that matter) seat is... amusing. Besides, Massachusetts today is the most liberal of all states in the nation. I don't think the Puritans would've approved of gay marriage So I'd say that religions influence in its home state is long gone.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Using the word libertarian to describe early America seems odd, as the idea doesn't appear to even have existed until at earliest the 1790s and the 20th century before it became popular in America. I don't think federalism really fits veryy well with what that means today.
Yes, it's a newer term. Back then they would've called themselves liberals, but the meaning of that word changed towards the end of the 19th century. If you want to get even more precise, the proper term for the likes of Jefferson, Monroe, Madison and Franklin would be "Classically Liberal"; the basic intellectual foundation of which would be the work of Locke.DesertFox- wrote:
Using the word libertarian to describe early America seems odd, as the idea doesn't appear to even have existed until at earliest the 1790s and the 20th century before it became popular in America. I don't think federalism really fits veryy well with what that means today.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-03-11 08:41:49)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
is that a brag post?JohnG@lt wrote:
Why is this forum inundated with foreigners trying to teach Americans about their own history?
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"