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2011-03-11 18:00:33
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

11 Bravo wrote:

except the market is the govt in this case.  and the market is broke. 


but forget that.  lets look at results.  our education sucks.  why would you expect more money or "rights" when you fail?
The state workers and their unions in Wisconsin agreed to give back on pay, benefits and pensions. And still had their CBA stripped.
Looks more like "union busting" then "fiscal responsibility".

And I'm still waiting on what the Wisconsin Governor and his buddy's are giving back.

Maybe War Man could answer that.

Last edited by Karbin (2011-03-11 18:05:43)

2011-03-11 18:02:55
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6987|Purplicious Wisconsin
*Yawn*
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2011-03-11 18:27:45
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5975|College Park, MD

Karbin wrote:

Again.... I would REALLY like you people to read the post.......

The Rights.....not looking a state workers but, others covered by your NLRA

Not looking at state workers.
State workers are NOT covered by NLRA.
Then what are we arguing? This decision only affects state workers. Hell it might even do some good. Do you know how hard it is to get fired from the federal government? It's not easy getting a job in it, but once you've got it you're pretty much set for life. You have to be a colossal fuck-up to get fired, otherwise you're fine. Hell there's even "FUMU" (fuck up, move up) where your manager recommends you for promotion so you get moved to another department where you can be someone else's headache.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2011-03-11 18:42:33
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Karbin wrote:

Again.... I would REALLY like you people to read the post.......

The Rights.....not looking a state workers but, others covered by your NLRA

Not looking at state workers.
State workers are NOT covered by NLRA.
Then what are we arguing? This decision only affects state workers. Hell it might even do some good. Do you know how hard it is to get fired from the federal government? It's not easy getting a job in it, but once you've got it you're pretty much set for life. You have to be a colossal fuck-up to get fired, otherwise you're fine. Hell there's even "FUMU" (fuck up, move up) where your manager recommends you for promotion so you get moved to another department where you can be someone else's headache.
And I agree... it's a problem with unions then again there's that whole Duty of fair representation.
Don't know what it's like in the States but, here as a rep, you DO NOT want to be in front of the Labour Board for Fail to represent.
And the concern is it will not stop with state employee's. More "Right-to-work States" and a fast swim to the bottom of the labour pool.
Was tried here when the government ordered a match to toyota. Was matched and toyota ordered a drop in wage.
Fortunately, the government didn't take the bait.

Last edited by Karbin (2011-03-11 18:56:18)

2011-03-11 20:35:10
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5975|College Park, MD
Virginia is a right to work state and it has an excellent economy.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2011-03-11 21:20:42
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6969|NJ
Well the problem with the Public Sector Unions is that they drive up the taxes(property) and the cost of living in the states. So when we hit a situation that we're in right now and the property taxes stop getting paid cause the private sector can't afford it, the CIVIL servants start draining the budgets.  Now with the Unions protecting the salaries and the jobs of the Union employees a battle is going to ensue with contracts not being honored, but "WE THE PEOPLE" of the private sector can't afford to pay for it at the moment.

The pensions are bankrupt cause our State of New Jersey kept borrowing off of them, with no chance of paying them back. I also wonder what benefits the state gives the pharmaceutical companies.

Also the tax and spend stories I"ve heard are horrible and are not the workers fault, it's the system which is just broken. I"ve heard a story from a teacher that she needed to spend 20k in her school even though she didn't need to, but she had to spend it or else the budget would be cut the next year. So she bought top of the line apples for her grade schoolers, which they proceeded to destroy in a month.

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2011-03-11 21:24:20)

2011-03-12 07:22:31
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

except the market is the govt in this case.  and the market is broke. 


but forget that.  lets look at results.  our education sucks.  why would you expect more money or "rights" when you fail?
The state workers and their unions in Wisconsin agreed to give back on pay, benefits and pensions. And still had their CBA stripped.
Looks more like "union busting" then "fiscal responsibility".

And I'm still waiting on what the Wisconsin Governor and his buddy's are giving back.

Maybe War Man could answer that.
wrong.  the gov said they could still negotiate on everything except sick pay and vacation time.  thats union busting to you?
2011-03-12 07:24:11
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

what right allows them to piss off work
interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

First Amendment to the United States Constitution


11 Bravo wrote:

and break shit?
Never heard about "breaking shit"..... except the union
dude...where do you live?

peaceful?  may want to start reading up on things.  constitution?  they are not being stopped from assembling.  srsly where are you getting your news from?

death threats and breaking windows is very peaceful

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2011-03-12 07:24:47)

2011-03-12 07:38:10
Karbin
Member
+42|6568
Guess us socialist Canuks did something right with our teachers here in Ontario:

Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Te … nsion_Plan

http://www.otpp.com/wps/wcm/connect/otpp_en/home

Ownership
The OTPP maintains a prominent role as one of Canada's largest investors, owning investments across Canada. Through its fully owned subsidiary Cadillac Fairview, the OTPP owns properties including the Toronto-Dominion Centre, Toronto Eaton Centre, and the Rideau Centre in Ottawa. Through its private equity investment arm, Teachers' Private Capital, the OTPP owns or has interests in companies such as Samsonite, GNC, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, Parmalat Canada, Doane Pet Care, and Worldspan. The OTPP posts a list of top investments annually on its website. In 2006 it acquired a 20% stake in CTVglobemedia.
2011-03-12 08:15:16
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6726|Ontario, Canada
you think the ontario teacher's pension plan is good? you realize ontario is going broke because the public sector holds it by the balls.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
2011-03-12 08:27:45
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

11 Bravo wrote:

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

what right allows them to piss off work
interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

First Amendment to the United States Constitution


11 Bravo wrote:

and break shit?
Never heard about "breaking shit"..... except the union
dude...where do you live?

peaceful?  may want to start reading up on things.  constitution?  they are not being stopped from assembling.  srsly where are you getting your news from?

death threats and breaking windows is very peaceful
Dude....

Wisconsin Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch claimed that the weeks of demonstrations resulted in $6.5 million in damages and other costs to the Capital. The next day he admitted that he had no basis for the higher figure and that the actual cleanup costs could be as low as $347,500. State architect Jeffrey Plale, a former state senator who was appointed to his post by Walker, stated that he had not observed any damages from demonstrations. As of March 7, 2011, the inside of the Capitol has been routinely cleaned and there have been no reports in media of any monetary damage at all.

First you bitch about them protesting...then the comment about firing them all for being there TO protest.
Next you'll try to tell me the "prank call" was made by the protesters.
Death threats... yup ...heard about them... and the cops are back tracking the I.Ps on them. I don't agree with them being made and want to see those who sent them charged to the max.


When you strip a CBA.. you strip the language that go's with it. This includes redress of grievance, among others.
Bravo... for all your complaints against unions, you really should find out whats in one, or are you one of those who think CBS's are about money?
The one I'm under is the size of a paperback book and 338 pages long, only 30 pages cover wage's and benefits.
I have no idea what the size or scope of the contract in Wisconsion but, thats what a CBA is... a contract.
So go ahead a cheer.... just don't act suprised when a section for breaking the contract has a cluse to cover that and racking up a huge pay out.
2011-03-12 08:30:27
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio
if they are missing work yes why would you not fire them?
2011-03-12 08:36:28
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

d4rkst4r wrote:

you think the ontario teacher's pension plan is good? you realize ontario is going broke because the public sector holds it by the balls.
Was just showing that there is an alliterative for the Wisconsin mess about pensions for public servants.
And Ontario is going broke from the previous administrations tax cuts. Mike and Eriny left a mess but, Dalton hasn't helped.
2011-03-12 08:37:04
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio
you see in non fairytale land if you dont show up for work, you get fired.
2011-03-12 08:40:27
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

11 Bravo wrote:

if they are missing work yes why would you not fire them?
You allow them to protest, or you fire them.... hmmmm... then again, I know what side your on.
2011-03-12 08:42:19
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

if they are missing work yes why would you not fire them?
You allow them to protest, or you fire them.... hmmmm... then again, I know what side your on.
they can protest all they want

you still have to do your job.  life is full of choices.

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2011-03-12 08:42:48)

2011-03-12 08:45:19
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

11 Bravo wrote:

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

if they are missing work yes why would you not fire them?
You allow them to protest, or you fire them.... hmmmm... then again, I know what side your on.
they can protest all they want

you still have to do your job.  life is full of choices.
I see.... and you would just go to work when your livelihood was being re-written, destroyed or taken away?
Pull the other one.
2011-03-12 08:47:27
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Karbin wrote:


You allow them to protest, or you fire them.... hmmmm... then again, I know what side your on.
they can protest all they want

you still have to do your job.  life is full of choices.
I see.... and you would just go to work when your livelihood was being re-written, destroyed or taken away?
Pull the other one.
lol detroyed.  they are still getting paid?  yes.  fuck they even have a pension.  so, they have way more than most people.  way way more.  why are you being so dramatic about this?  try dealing with facts.
2011-03-12 09:00:11
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

11 Bravo wrote:

Karbin wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:


they can protest all they want

you still have to do your job.  life is full of choices.
I see.... and you would just go to work when your livelihood was being re-written, destroyed or taken away?
Pull the other one.
lol detroyed.  they are still getting paid?  yes.  fuck they even have a pension.  so, they have way more than most people.  way way more.  why are you being so dramatic about this?  try dealing with facts.
With the breaking of the CBA the Senate can pass another bill to cut wage's and pensions.
To me... all the bitching about someone elsie's wages or benefits or pensions....has the sound of....jealousy. They have it... I want it.. I can't have it ...so why should they..... answer....

Join a Fucking Union

Don't want to, then don't bitch about those who join together to make their lives better.
2011-03-12 09:02:31
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5510|Cleveland, Ohio
i was in a union before.

and jealous?  no i make more than most of those teachers so...meh.

when its taxpayer money it has the right to be examined.
2011-03-12 09:15:17
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

11 Bravo wrote:

when its taxpayer money it has the right to be examined.
I agree that it should be examined(not going to go into the right... there is none, not in the Constitution    )
I DO have a problem when the union in question has agrees to cut backs and still has this type of crap happen.
Hard bargaining... no problem, when both sides bargain in good faith.
I've never believed in the gun to the head bargaining on either side. It's not reasonable, good faith bargaining.
2011-03-12 09:56:37
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5631|London, England

Karbin wrote:

Again.... I would REALLY like you people to read the post.......

The Rights.....not looking a state workers but, others covered by your NLRA

Not looking at state workers.
State workers are NOT covered by NLRA.
I did say that:
The law also protects employees rights to act together, with or without a union, to improve working terms and conditions, including wages and benefits. These are known as protected concerted activities.

Could.... could be used by the Wisconsin public workers for a court challenge.
Read what? You've posted air. Zero substance. Nothing Wisconsin has done is illegal.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-12 09:59:51
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5631|London, England

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Virginia is a right to work state and it has an excellent economy.
Same with Texas.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2011-03-12 10:08:03
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|6987|Purplicious Wisconsin
How do you explain the doctors' filing sick notes for the protesters so they can skip work. How do you feel of people in the union that wanted to work but couldn't because schools were closed. How do you feel about a good amount of protesters from a different fucking state who don't even have to worry about this 'cause it doesn't even effect their state?

There are people in our union that were forced to join the union against their will. How do you feel about that?

Last edited by War Man (2011-03-12 10:09:05)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2011-03-12 10:16:26
Karbin
Member
+42|6568

JohnG@lt wrote:

Karbin wrote:

Again.... I would REALLY like you people to read the post.......

The Rights.....not looking a state workers but, others covered by your NLRA

Not looking at state workers.
State workers are NOT covered by NLRA.
I did say that:
The law also protects employees rights to act together, with or without a union, to improve working terms and conditions, including wages and benefits. These are known as protected concerted activities.

Could.... could be used by the Wisconsin public workers for a court challenge.
Read what? You've posted air. Zero substance. Nothing Wisconsin has done is illegal.
The law also protects employees rights to act together, with or without a union, to improve working terms and conditions, including wages and benefits. These are known as protected concerted activities.

There will be a court challenge to the bills passage.
There is, at this time, the recall movement pushing for the most recalls in U.S. history. Both Dems and Repubs are on the list.
Most definitely going to keep an eye on this for the out comes.

 

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