Digital piracy, your thoughts please

2011-02-28 10:15:06

#276

SenorToenails: Veritas et Scientia; +444|6406|North Tonawanda, NY

Uzique wrote:
this whole 'wider variety' and 'try before you buy' thing is not a savvy argument.

it just isn't.

how did people discover and consume music before internet piracy? you think they just listened to the same 10 artists?

the only difference is consumer quality control: you have been enabled to buy more stuff THAT YOU LIKE.

this qualitative improvement, however, means nothing to the industry and the bottom-line dollar loss.

I do agree with Uzique on this. I use internet radio to find new music for myself, and before the internet I listened to a lot of radio. I don't really see how piracy would help 'discover' music unless you're an indiscriminate hoarder and downloading tons of stuff just to have it...but that's a pretty shitty method.

As for myself, I like having physical media but I'm not exactly rolling in the dough...so I buy second hand. It means I don't have the newest stuff available to me, but meh...trade-offs.

2011-02-28 10:17:21

#277

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

^ because for every 100 artists that you download, there's only 10 that you truly like enough to go out and buy / see live.

but it doesn't recuperate the loss of pecuniary opportunity that the record labels suffered by you ripping their 100 artist catalogue.

when you end up spending £500 a year on music... great! well done! aren't you a contributing little audiophile! well what you're neglecting (for nothing but your own convenience) in that 'argument' is that for the £500 of well-chosen, tastefully-decided music that you purchased, you downloaded and listened to (even if you then discarded it and deleted it) £5000's worth more. those other 90 artists didn't see a penny... but they still put in the same amount of work and still have bills to pay and families to feed.

the smug self-sureness of pirates really pisses me off. and i pirate more music than any of you. just know that you're in the wrong and the only reason you carry on doing it is because you simply CAN-- there's no immediate punishment or moral 'cost' to your crime. that doesn't make it okay, though, and it doesn't make your contrived and illogical excuses any more credible.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 10:19:09

#278

liquidat0r: wtf.; +2,223|6903|UK

Piracy has introduced me to a lot of music I otherwise wouldn't have discovered. Sure, friends and last.fm are also just as responsible for recommendations. But piracy has enabled me to listen to those recommendations.

I didn't listen to music before internet piracy. This method of discovering, acquiring and then later buying music is the only method I've known.

My point was that in my case piracy isn't all bad. If an artist is like "fuck you you stole my music" I can be like "well yeah but I bought your next two albums". I'm not saying that it justifies my pirating their music in the first place - but they can't argue against the fact that piracy has aided them in getting sales from me.

---

I know I'm in the wrong pirating music. I buy what I can. I've also bought a few things which I've ended up not liking.

2011-02-28 10:19:16

#279

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6925

I'm ok with that.

2011-02-28 10:22:36

#280

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

liquidat0r wrote:
Piracy has introduced me to a lot of music I otherwise wouldn't have discovered. Sure, friends and last.fm are also just as responsible for recommendations. But piracy has enabled me to listen to those recommendations.

I didn't listen to music before internet piracy. This method of discovering, acquiring and then later buying music is the only method I've known.

My point was that in my case piracy isn't all bad. If an artist is like "fuck you you stole my music" I can be like "well yeah but I bought your next two albums". I'm not saying that it justifies my pirating their music in the first place - but they can't argue against the fact that piracy has aided them in getting sales from me.

you've just got the sense of self-entitlement all wrong. the artists and record labels don't give a fuck how you 'discovered' their music when it involves an illegal method. and your behaviour isn't justified or excusable; in fact, if you had paid for the first album in the first fucking place, perhaps the record-label would have more money to actually market and raise awareness for their artist's work. see what i mean? it's a self-defeating cycle of excuse-making and smug masturbation.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-02-28 10:22:48)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 10:26:30

#281

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5634|London, England

I can't list all the albums I've bought, and soon after regretted, over the years only to find that there was precisely one track worth a damn on the thing. I can't feel bad for artists. Not when I've wasted so many thousands of dollars on straight trash over the decades.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-28 10:28:36

#282

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,981|6908|949

you pirated Clash's Cut the Crap - a throwaway album they were forced to make and so shitty the band members didn't even want their face shown on the cover of. So instead of buying shitty albums you pirate them?

2011-02-28 10:29:42

#283

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6773

lol, he would've pirated it . . .

2011-02-28 10:31:14

#284

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5634|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
you pirated Clash's Cut the Crap - a throwaway album they were forced to make and so shitty the band members didn't even want their face shown on the cover of. So instead of buying shitty albums you pirate them?

I pirated the entire discography in one torrent. Cut the Crap was included.

I paid for The Clash, Sandanista and Combat Rock in the past. I just wanted higher kbps mp3's to replace my old 96 kbps rips.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-28 10:31:45

#285

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5634|London, England

burnzz wrote:
lol, he would've pirated it . . .

And yeah, Strummer would be proud

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-28 10:32:21

#286

liquidat0r: wtf.; +2,223|6903|UK

SenorToenails wrote:
I use internet radio to find new music for myself, and before the internet I listened to a lot of radio. I don't really see how piracy would help 'discover' music unless ...

I don't really discover music through piracy any more. I did circa two years ago when my eyes were opened to the world of music. For some reason I barely listened to music at all before uni. I have no idea why. Apart from a couple of exceptions, the first album I actually bought for myself was in my first year at uni. I didn't know that 90% of the world of music existed. I had taken no interest in it whatsoever. Crazy, huh?

I started buying and pirating music and near as makes no difference the same time.

SenorToenails wrote:
As for myself, I like having physical media but I'm not exactly rolling in the dough...so I buy second hand. It means I don't have the newest stuff available to me, but meh...trade-offs.

Buying second hand means no more money goes to the artist, though.

2011-02-28 10:55:17

#287

globefish23: sophisticated slacker; +334|6600|Graz, Austria

11 Bravo wrote:
its fucking stealing.

semantics is for thieving twats

*Sigh*
So it's also semantics for judges, lawyers and lawmakers?
Theft = copyright infringement?
Is that seriously what you believe?
Would you call the Chief Justice of the United States a twat too?

2011-02-28 12:12:18

#288

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

he's not saying that. he's not talking about formal legal charges. he's talking about the moral principle - 'theft' in the general term.

stop being such an obsequious twat

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 12:25:25

#289

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,054|7048|PNW

Uzique wrote:
but it doesn't recuperate the loss of pecuniary opportunity that the record labels suffered by you ripping their 100 artist catalogue.

A lot of these songs I would have otherwise outright ignored before the industry did the right thing and adopted the digital market with fair pricing. But admittedly, it still doesn't outpace my CD purchases (chosen through listening to youtube ), even if jewel cases are antiquated pieces of brittle crap.

I pretty much viewed the 'old' way as an alternative to driving all the way to Borders to stand around in their music section listening to samples through greasy public headphones, or jotting down notes while listening to a radio station.

Uzique wrote:
[...] consumer quality control: you have been enabled to buy more stuff THAT YOU LIKE.

Taken out of context, I agree with this.

this qualitative improvement, however, means nothing to the industry and the bottom-line dollar loss.

The same kind of loss squawked about during the onset of recorded media, radio, televis--ugh, I'm not doing this again.

2011-02-28 12:49:54

#290

Miggle: FUCK UBISOFT; +1,411|7018|FUCK UBISOFT

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=92272

2011-02-28 12:56:12

#291

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

how does that invalidate what i'm saying at all?

wanna go fish through my old posts to find the multiple posts where i call benn jordan a pretentious twat?

he has since complained about the loss of any money in making music, too

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 13:06:24

#292

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,054|7048|PNW

Uzique wrote:
wanna go fish through my old posts to find the multiple posts where i call benn jordan a pretentious twat?

I'll do it if there's prizes involved!

2011-02-28 13:11:15

#293

Miggle: FUCK UBISOFT; +1,411|7018|FUCK UBISOFT

uzique don't you use waffles?

2011-02-28 13:13:00

#294

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

hey miggle read back throughout this thread, you try-hard little cunt

"i pirate more than anyone here", said about x15

oooh you're making such a point!!!!!! wowowow!

i've said piracy is a crime - just it has no immediate punishment or consequence, so people do it, casual-as-hell

i'm hardly saying i would never pirate - im just saying people's defenses are bollocks

Last edited by Uzique (2011-02-28 13:13:17)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 13:15:18

#295

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,054|7048|PNW

Bollocks or not, I've spent more on media because of piracy. Pretty much all there is to it.

2011-02-28 13:21:52

#296

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

im sure the artists, devs and studios that you pirated but didn't deem 'worthy' will be so glad that you've spent 'lots' of money

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 13:28:33

#297

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,054|7048|PNW

Uzique wrote:
im sure the artists, devs and studios that you pirated but didn't deem 'worthy' will be so glad that you've spent 'lots' of money

Oh, I'm sure they are. My box collection's even more immense than what I have on Steam and even includes all of my least-favorite, previously pirated titles that I would have never bought going off a demo (if available) alone. Better sold at a reduced price than not at all.

(e: Too bad for the PS2 devs that all my games on it are bought second-hand)

2011-02-28 13:32:27

#298

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5634|London, England

Uzique wrote:
im sure the artists, devs and studios that you pirated but didn't deem 'worthy' will be so glad that you've spent 'lots' of money

If they aren't worthy, why are they worthy of his coin? Do artists live in some communist utopia where they are all equal and should be treated as such? If they produced shit they deserve shit. The fact that they would've received any of his money at all under the old system shows how flawed it was.

Not everything that gets published is worth anything. You of all people should get this as you belabor the point as often as you possibly can in the book club thread.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-02-28 13:33:22)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-28 13:38:56

#299

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6747

that's not the way the business works though, is it? that's not the consumer model. i'm not saying it's right, or applaudable... but just you're arguing against a system and a distribution method that is very much backed up by society-at-large and law/legislation. the lawyers, the general consuming public and the industry do not seem to agree with the notion that "if the product isn't worth the price, just don't pay!". can you walk into your local bookstore, go home and read the entire book, and then come back to decide whether or not to give the shop your cash? these things are a matter of TASTE: you cannot put the price-estimation in the entirely subjective hands of the consumer, and make it a voluntary process. that's ABSURD. that's like saying "hey, we just spent £750,000 recording an album in professional studios over 3 months with session musicians... come have a listen... if it's not to your personal taste in music, don't pay- the 750k debt is our fault for not appealing to your eardrums!"

simply fucking mindblowing logic.

and me denouncing bad literature is nowhere near the same thing as saying "everyone go to your local departure lounge and feel free to take a free copy of glenn beck's fiction, because it's not worth the money". if your taste in literature is lowbrow enough to read that shit and find enjoyment in it, then of course you should pay. stop being such a fucking dumbass! jesus. literally had my mouth open writing this entire post. utter disbelief.

Last edited by Uzique (2011-02-28 13:40:52)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-28 13:47:01

#300

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6382|eXtreme to the maX

I don't think much of Fords.
Does this mean I can steal them out of the showroom to drive around for a bit to see if I'm wrong?

Fuck Israel

BF2S Forums Digital piracy, your thoughts please

Uzique wrote:

liquidat0r wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

burnzz wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Board footer