Israel and Palestine

2011-02-21 16:15:16

#151

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6151|what

JohnG@lt wrote:
dayarath wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Every single other party tried to put through a UN resolution.

It was veto'd by one country.
UN resolutions "condemning" settlements and perhaps even giving the Israelis a new map!

And if they don't adhere to the UN's demands...... oh wait, noone is there to enforce anything.
But they will wag their fingers angrily at them! Australia might send an anti-whaling vessel to patrol their shoreline!

We've got Australian soldiers dying in Afghanistan at the moment.

Thanks for the support in the war effort.

2011-02-21 16:16:52

#152

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

AussieReaper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
dayarath wrote:

UN resolutions "condemning" settlements and perhaps even giving the Israelis a new map!

And if they don't adhere to the UN's demands...... oh wait, noone is there to enforce anything.
But they will wag their fingers angrily at them! Australia might send an anti-whaling vessel to patrol their shoreline!
We've got Australian soldiers dying in Afghanistan at the moment.

Thanks for the support in the war effort.

Would you have supported an Australian invasion of Israel to support the UN resolution?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-21 16:19:03

#153

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6469

have you read the book? said is a reasonable and rational voice for the palestinians - not extremist, nor reactionary.

'spurious scholarship' in the title clearly claims that it is trying to redress the balance of pro-zionist/pro-israel establishmentarianism.

stop bringing your personal prejudices to the debate and obscuring the fact you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-02-21 16:20:09

#154

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|5997|...

Uzique wrote:
have you read the book? said is a reasonable and rational voice for the palestinians - not extremist, nor reactionary.

'spurious scholarship' in the title clearly claims that it is trying to redress the balance of pro-zionist/pro-israel establishmentarianism.

stop bringing your personal prejudices to the debate and obscuring the fact you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

So this is not a book heavily biased towards the palestinians?

Then why the title? To intentionally mislead?

inane little opines

2011-02-21 16:21:03

#155

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

dayarath wrote:
Well I'm sure you can dig up similar statements of clinton in the 90s. Point is, the US, to my knowledge, has never endorsed or cheered on Israeli expansion in the region. They have acted like every single party on the planet - doing nothing.

If only the US would do nothing, thats not the case, they block any attempt to do anything about settlement building, even criticism is not permitted and gets vetoed.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:22:16

#156

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

But they will wag their fingers angrily at them! Australia might send an anti-whaling vessel to patrol their shoreline!
We've got Australian soldiers dying in Afghanistan at the moment.

Thanks for the support in the war effort.
Would you have supported an Australian invasion of Israel to support the UN resolution?

There's no need to invade Israel, just boot them out of Palestine - and I would support it, much more so than Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam or Korea...

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:22:43

#157

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|5997|...

Dilbert_X wrote:
If only the US would do nothing, thats not the case, they block any attempt to do anything about settlement building, even criticism is not permitted and gets vetoed.

oh do they now?

If any party on the planet was actually honest about their intention to stop Israeli settlement construction I'm sure they would do something about it instead of going back and forth in the UN for some statements that amount to nothing.

Last edited by dayarath (2011-02-21 16:22:56)

inane little opines

2011-02-21 16:24:02

#158

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:

We've got Australian soldiers dying in Afghanistan at the moment.

Thanks for the support in the war effort.
Would you have supported an Australian invasion of Israel to support the UN resolution?
There's no need to invade Israel, just boot them out of Palestine - and I would support it, much more so than Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam or Korea...

Oh, and how do you propose they get booted out of Palestine?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-21 16:24:46

#159

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5584

The first Korea was a pretty just war Dil.

2011-02-21 16:25:13

#160

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

For example do what?
What would you suggest that hasn't been done?

The EU invests in government, power stations, hospitals, utilities, infrastructure in Palestine and Israel bombs them or seizes them as part of its land grabs.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:25:56

#161

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

Would you have supported an Australian invasion of Israel to support the UN resolution?
There's no need to invade Israel, just boot them out of Palestine - and I would support it, much more so than Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam or Korea...
Oh, and how do you propose they get booted out of Palestine?

Give them 48 hours to leave and then start bombing.

Works on arabs.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:27:24

#162

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:

There's no need to invade Israel, just boot them out of Palestine - and I would support it, much more so than Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam or Korea...
Oh, and how do you propose they get booted out of Palestine?
Give them 48 hours to leave and then start bombing.

Works on arabs.

Who's going to do the bombing?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-21 16:32:01

#163

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|5997|...

Dilbert_X wrote:
For example do what?
What would you suggest that hasn't been done?

The EU invests in government, power stations, hospitals, utilities, infrastructure in Palestine and Israel bombs them or seizes them as part of its land grabs.

Maybe actions that have physical repercussions instead of looking on with an angry face?

inane little opines

2011-02-21 16:32:56

#164

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6151|what

JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

Oh, and how do you propose they get booted out of Palestine?
Give them 48 hours to leave and then start bombing.

Works on arabs.
Who's going to do the bombing?

Oh, yeah. That's right. Palestinians don't have an army.

Well they should all just roll over then?

2011-02-21 16:33:01

#165

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

Oh, and how do you propose they get booted out of Palestine?
Give them 48 hours to leave and then start bombing.

Works on arabs.
Who's going to do the bombing?

Any member of the UN who feels like it, I bet China and Russia would welcome an opportunity to try out their weapons and help their export business.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:34:31

#166

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

dayarath wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
For example do what?
What would you suggest that hasn't been done?

The EU invests in government, power stations, hospitals, utilities, infrastructure in Palestine and Israel bombs them or seizes them as part of its land grabs.
Maybe actions that have physical repercussions instead of looking on with an angry face?

Well then suggest something they can do, instead of criticising them for doing nothing when in fact they do make regular efforts through the UN and on the ground but are invariably thwarted by the US.

What do you suggest they do?

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:36:53

#167

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

AussieReaper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:

Give them 48 hours to leave and then start bombing.

Works on arabs.
Who's going to do the bombing?
Oh, yeah. That's right. Palestinians don't have an army.

Well they should all just roll over then?

Did I say that? You're bitching the resolution wasn't passed. My question is: how would you expect it to be enforced and by whom? If you don't expect it to be enforced it's not exactly worth the paper its printed on now is it?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-21 16:37:37

#168

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:

Give them 48 hours to leave and then start bombing.

Works on arabs.
Who's going to do the bombing?
Any member of the UN who feels like it, I bet China and Russia would welcome an opportunity to try out their weapons and help their export business.

I don't see that happening. But, you seem to feel very strongly about the issue, why haven't you offered your services to Hamas?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-21 16:41:13

#169

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Any member of the UN who feels like it, I bet China and Russia would welcome an opportunity to try out their weapons and help their export business.
I don't see that happening. But, you seem to feel very strongly about the issue, why haven't you offered your services to Hamas?

Interesting, coming from someone who did sign up to be Cheney's footsoldier and go fight a for-profit war - albeit on minimum wage.

Joining Hamas wouldn't achieve anything, working democratically to achieve the same end might.

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:44:47

#170

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|5997|...

Dilbert_X wrote:
Well then suggest something they can do, instead of criticising them for doing nothing when in fact they do make regular efforts through the UN and on the ground but are invariably thwarted by the US.

What do you suggest they do?

I criticise them because it's really just pretending to care. The EU would be more than capable of taking measures against Israel if it wanted to do so. As is China. As is Russia. (who, by the way, really don't care).

Not to mention the countries bordering on Israel, infact they should be doing the most in this whole situation.

Why should I come up with a solution to something I don't want to waste time and energy on? I already said that it's their problem and I don't care enough either way. You, however, do care as you've been actively engaging in the topic for damn near 4 years repeating the same stance - so, if anyone, it should be you presenting new measures. And believe me, there are plenty -real- measures that could be taken.

inane little opines

2011-02-21 16:46:14

#171

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6151|what

JohnG@lt wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:

Who's going to do the bombing?
Oh, yeah. That's right. Palestinians don't have an army.

Well they should all just roll over then?
Did I say that? You're bitching the resolution wasn't passed. My question is: how would you expect it to be enforced and by whom? If you don't expect it to be enforced it's not exactly worth the paper its printed on now is it?

Because UN resolutions give cause. They give cause for economic sanctions for example.

The same way the US wanted a resolution to invade Iraq. WMD's. It was kind of a big deal at the time. Maybe you remember it?

The US wanted a UN vote to invade so badly, they outright lied and distorted evidence to suit. Still haven't found any WMD's by the way.

2011-02-21 16:46:42

#172

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Any member of the UN who feels like it, I bet China and Russia would welcome an opportunity to try out their weapons and help their export business.
I don't see that happening. But, you seem to feel very strongly about the issue, why haven't you offered your services to Hamas?
Interesting, coming from someone who did sign up to be Cheney's footsoldier and go fight a for-profit war - albeit on minimum wage.

Joining Hamas wouldn't achieve anything, working democratically to achieve the same end might.

Negative. I joined when Clinton was still president and over a year before 9/11 happened.

Nice try deflecting the subject though. Admit it, you have no plan when it comes to any of this. You're in on this train of thinking solely because it allows you to vent your childish anti-authoritarian beliefs on a proxy. We get it, you hate America and pretty much anyone that has a place of power in the world. The problem is you're in your mid thirties and what was cool as a teenager becomes rather sad as you age. I had my copy of the Communist Manifesto and the Anarchists Cookbook when I was in my late teen's/early twenties. I wanted to fight the man too. I grew out of it.

This isn't even remotely your fight. Why the hell do you care about Israel or even America? Live your own inconsequential life and grow out of the childish hipster funk you've been stuck in.

The worst part is you're old enough to realize that actions have consequences and you can't just go dicking around with the borders on a map without causing a lot of pain, hardship, and yes, death. People aren't just going to pack up their belongings and peacefully move. It doesn't work like that. It never has. But you don't care about that, and you certainly don't give a shit about the Palestinians or even the Jews really. Your fight is with authority and they are merely your personal proxy. Grow the fuck up.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2011-02-21 16:48:58)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-02-21 16:49:47

#173

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|5997|...

AussieReaper wrote:
Because UN resolutions give cause. They give cause for economic sanctions for example.

Really if 13 out of 14 parties want something to be done they could easily do so outside of the UN. The US is not all-powerful.

AussieReaper wrote:
The US wanted a UN vote to invade so badly, they outright lied and distorted evidence to suit. Still haven't found any WMD's by the way.

here we go....

Last edited by dayarath (2011-02-21 16:50:05)

inane little opines

2011-02-21 16:50:50

#174

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

dayarath wrote:
I criticise them because it's really just pretending to care. The EU would be more than capable of taking measures against Israel if it wanted to do so. As is China. As is Russia. (who, by the way, really don't care).

Not to mention the countries bordering on Israel, infact they should be doing the most in this whole situation.

Why should I come up with a solution to something I don't want to waste time and energy on? I already said that it's their problem and I don't care enough either way. You, however, do care as you've been actively engaging in the topic for damn near 4 years repeating the same stance - so, if anyone, it should be you presenting new measures. And believe me, there are plenty -real- measures that could be taken.

Really, you need to come up with a concrete suggestion if you're going to say they aren't doing enough.

The EU restricts trade with Israel, criticises them regularly, sends aid to the Palestinians, supports fair negotiations - you may have heard of the Oslo accords - and supports action in the UN.

China and Russia restrict trade with Israel, criticise them regularly, send aid to the Palestinians, support fair negotiations and support action in the UN.

Their neighbours have fought several wars in support of the Palestinians, are openly critical to Israel to the point of many having minimal diplomatic relations, substantially limit or have no trade with Israel, send aid to Palestine, support fair negotiations, support actions in the UN.

Unless you can come up with something else they could be doing you can't reasonably criticise them for not doing enough.

From my perspective 'new measures' would be either to force both parties to the negotiating table - through sanctions, embargoes, removal of aid etc, or simply for the UN to devise a solution and impose it on the region by military force if necessary - both have been done often enough to the Arabs, I don't see why the Israelis deserve any better.

Sitting back and providing arms and money to one side has not worked so far.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-21 16:54:20)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

2011-02-21 16:52:42

#175

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|5997|...

Dilbert_X wrote:
dayarath wrote:
I criticise them because it's really just pretending to care. The EU would be more than capable of taking measures against Israel if it wanted to do so. As is China. As is Russia. (who, by the way, really don't care).

Not to mention the countries bordering on Israel, infact they should be doing the most in this whole situation.

Why should I come up with a solution to something I don't want to waste time and energy on? I already said that it's their problem and I don't care enough either way. You, however, do care as you've been actively engaging in the topic for damn near 4 years repeating the same stance - so, if anyone, it should be you presenting new measures. And believe me, there are plenty -real- measures that could be taken.
Really, you need to come up with a concrete suggestion if you're going to say they aren't doing enough.

The EU restricts trade with Israel, criticises them regularly, sends aid to the Palestinians, supports fair negotiations - you may have heard of the Oslo accords - and supports action in the UN.

China and Russia restrict trade with Israel, criticise them regularly, send aid to the Palestinians, support fair negotiations and support action in the UN.

Their neighbours have fought several wars in support of the Palestinians, are openly critical to Israel to the point of many having minimal diplomatic relations, substantially limit or have no trade with Israel, send aid to Palestine, support fair negotiations, support actions in the UN.

Unless you can come up with something else they could be doing you can't reasonably criticise them for not doing enough.

The EU is Israel's largest trading partner, accounting for 27% of Israeli exports and 43% of Israeli imports.

Well then clearly they aren't really trying with their sanctions.

inane little opines

BF2S Forums Israel and Palestine

JohnG@lt wrote:

dayarath wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Uzique wrote:

dayarath wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

dayarath wrote:

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